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BBJ,

You are right, that song is perfect for Retrouvaille. I haven't heard it yet, but the lyrics are great. As for the rock, keep it for yourself. Your husband says the ugliest, most disgustingly hurtful things to you. He does not deserve the wonderful woman and mother that you are. He couldn't surpass you at kissing your daughter goodnight if he spent 200 minutes doing it. Your husband builds himself up by tearing you down. Not much to admire there.

Bbj,
I agree with Sara.He wont be happy without you and you know it. We all know it from where we are. But we cant, you cant, make him see that. He has to see it for himself. Let him...
Take care of you sweetie,
K

Thanks, all....

I hid out in the basement watching clips of the saturday night live special while Dan got sis to bed. Guess what? He finally gave in and put her in bed with him!?! And just a few days ago he was telling me how I "messed them up" on their sleep schedules by putting them in our bed when he was out of town (we were in the same bed until last week).

I left him to sleep in our bed but I took sis out around eleven and put her in her own bed...I took the couch.

This morning he came in the bathroom while I was getting ready to tell me goodbye. Said to call him later with the info. where to meet up after work. We are taking the kids on a family trip to the pumpkin patch! HIS IDEA

p.s. He was all chatty this morning about sis--"Wow she sure didn't want to go to sleep last night, did she? Must have been that long nap, or something had her wired..." Glad he is mellow about it NOW....

BBJ, I think you talking to the L is a wake-up call for your H. Facts and reality trump emotions after a while. Let him keep figuring things out on his own.
Cheers

I am, as Woog used to say, "Sticking to the plan" of not discussing our M at all. I don't know how long that will last, but that is the current plan.

I am not ready to say the lawyer visit was a wake-up call. H is deep down in the tunnel of NFC-land and it will take a lot of work on his part to climb back out....But if nothing else I do hope he learns to be more patient with the kids. Last night was a start.........

Interesting my stbxH said that a major turning point for him was during his vacation with the kids when he realised he had again the patience he used to have and had a great time with them. He said he realised he was "out of the crisis". What I mean is them being impatient and getting angry with the kids seems to be standard procedure. That is how it started with us 19 months ago...
K

We survived the pumpkin patch! H only got angry once, and it wasn't at me or the kids....we were sitting on the hayrack for the ride out to get a pumpkin (with about 5 other people), when another family pulled up the drive. The guy was about to leave but waited for that family. They went inside the admission barn and literally, it took them like 8-10 minutes to get their sh!t together and get on the hayride. H was pi$$ed b/c the sun was setting, it was getting colder (20* F tonight!), and we were ready to go get the pumpkin already. But then S said something funny and H seemed to lighten up...

We came home with 3 big pumpkins and fun pictures of the kids playing at the playground there. We all ate dinner together, no stresses. Then H left to check cows since it will be so cold tonight, first night for a freeze around here. I put the kids to bed. Sissy took 60 minutes tonight, better than 90 but not like the 10 it used to take....don't know what is up except terrible 2s I guess...

I hope H is able to keep enjoying the kids. I thought of you tonight, K....I have teacher conferences and night class the next 3 nights in a row. I reminded H of that tonight, asked if my parents or his needed to step in. He actually said,

"No, I am traveling a lot and will be again next week, I should have them while I can be around...." so he wants to watch them the next 3 nights........

OK right now I am fighting and incredible urge to call H and chew his a$$! I haven't done it, though.

Last night:

*H took care of the kids (I know, it is HIS job too) while I had parent-teacher conferences.

*He actually went out and bought a car seat for D, he has one for S but always just borrows mine for D. He called me from the store to tell me he was buying one and ask her weight. I told him and then said it was good he was buying a seat for D as he was going to need one. (Meaning: since you will have our kids half the time you need your own stuff) Of course H backpedaled around that one, and said something about how it will be easier on nights I have stuff going on for him to get the kids now (You had to be there I think but he said it more in a "us together" way....)

*H said he wanted the kids all 3 nights this week that I am busy, said "I want to have them while I can". I said something about how we need to get comfortable with it that way, and he said, "No, I meant since I know I travel next week I want to spend time with the kids when I am not traveling". Again, hard to explain, but any time I made an observation (no emotion!) about how things will be 'going forward', he tried to duck/dodge/backpedal...

*Last night was a little frustrating for us both as D2 has prob. got an ear infection. H said she was fussy before bed, I got home from conferences at 9 and she was in bed. She woke up crying at 1:00 about her ear, I had been in bed around an hour.... She got in my bed and was crying for her Daddy who was downstairs. I called down to him, he started coming up the stairs, I said she was asking for you, he said, "What will you do if I am not here?" I got instant pi$$ed and said, "Never mind, I will handle it, you are right I will need to get used to you not being here." He said, "I MEANT when I am traveling I won't be here..."

I took D back to bed and H went back downstairs to the couch where he has been sleeping since he got back Sunday....

On Monday night, before bed, he looked at me and said, "I know we need to talk about this (our M) but not tonight. I am so tired...." It was 11 and I was tired too so I went to bed.

My thoughts are

*WTF is going on? He is sleeping downstairs by choice, he is the one who said last week he wanted a D and he has said nothing about NOT wanting a D....

*He DID mention the night I went to the lawyer (last Wed.) that if he had to get the house on his own he may have to live in our current house a while longer...is that what he is doing?

*Last night after I got home I sat on the couch to relax before bed (was at school from 8 am to 9 pm b/c of conferences). H sat on the other couch, talked to me, chit chatted, etc. like things were fine. No problem being my "friend", just no touching or ILY (I haven't done EITHER myself since the night he said 'I hate you', even though he says he didn't mean that I haven't touched him since)

I am just getting so frustrated. I KNOW from prior experience that if I force the issue and start any kind of R talk, he will jump into his "Yes, we are getting a D, this is just how it is, but I want to be friend for the kids" or some such crap.

However, this "being friends, living in the same house" thing is driving me crazy. It is like having your house full of yummy food on a diet. What is the point of having it there all the time if you can't touch it? Not the best example but I hope you get what I mean. Hanging out joking with H will only lead to me having expectations/hopes, I know myself well enough to admit that. And I don't want to have expectations/hopes b/c I know I will be disappointed that much more when he suddenly decides it is time, and moves out.............

So basically, part of me says, we are getting along well, we are sharing the responsibilities like we haven't done EVER since the kids were born. The other part says, he is just biding his time until he is ready to leave and by then I will have "expectations" again and be more upset, he should leave NOW...

Last night H cleaned up the whole kitchen from the pumpkin carving while I stood there talking to him. He even cleaned the sink itself. I had put on a roast and vegetables in the crock pot so it would be cooked for me to take to lunch the rest of the week. H wasn't planning to eat it, but he got it all out of the pot, wrapped it up, put it away....normally he doesn't even put his own plate in the dishwasher!

Also he hates pumkin seeds, no one eats them except me. And yet when I got home at 9 pm, he was in the kitchen, sifting the pumkin seeds out of the bowl of pumkin "guts". He spent almost 15 minutes washing them, cleaning them off, rinsing them again, etc. I asked why he was doing that, he said "Because I knew you would want them."

Maybe I am understanding what it says in the DB/DR books, about how when WE start 'doing something different', our spouses often react with anger/confusion. That is how I feel today.

H,

WTF are you cleaning up around the house NOW?
Why are you wanting to take care of our children NOW?
Why are you doing nice little things for me NOW?

Is it b/c you want to be nice, or b/c you want me to go easy on you with my Lawyer??????/

Probably because of guilt... Probably because once again he is not OK with his decision. Probably because his decision is a result of the feeling "we cant fix it so let's go ahead and break it, at least we will be DOING something".

Dan has a long way to go until he realises there are no "Quick Fixes" as FG says. I know my stbxH thought that the decision was the hardest part but as what he now tells me, what followed was beyond his imagination.

Bbj, if you feel strong enough, just tell him what you want. If you want him out, he has to move. IMO, living in the same house while things are so stressful only HARMS the relationship and validates his decision. I know DR says stay in the same house but I think that is for stages earlier than yours.
Love
K