I am going to give him a few more weeks of therapy before I stay with friends. I want him to give the therapy a chance even if there is little in it for me right now. So what else is new? Went to my Dr. yesterday and he is prescribing antidepressants. I already know that I am clinically depressed but was trying to get some answers from him, too. Will keep you posted.
Johanna, I am in a similar situation as well. Married 1/4 of a century to a man who has made it to the 1/2 century mark. Isn't it a cruel twist of fate that when the kids were young, he was always wanting more, and I was feeling like OK I breast feed the youngest, when the youngest goes to sleep the older one wants to sit on my lap, when the older one gets off my lap, then the cat wants to sit there, then when my husband gets home from work, guess what he wants? Now, fast forward 20 years, the kids are almost grown, I want to be intimate on a regular basis, and he cannot due to the male half century mark. We have had several "state of the relationship talks", after the first talk, he goes to the DR. to find out what is wrong, he gets a prescription for "Vitamin V."
I think my husband had major performance anxiety before getting vitamin V and thus did not initiate and rejected any advances on my part. For example we could go as long as 8 months without any sex at all. About 4 months ago, I was considering a PA, and told my husband, I consider sex an important part of a marital situation, and what can I do to help you in regards to this and I know vit V can be a wonderful thing but if the desire and effort is not there, it will do us no good at all. From his perspective he needs to know that he is loved and valued outside of the bedroom, so for him I need to lay on the loving outside of the bedroom, hugs and passionate kisses drive him wild. Since he has ED (erectile dysfunction). I also need to let him know ahead of time that I am interested. Those big passionate kisses and hugs work miracles. Also, I give him promises of BJ's.
In your case:
Why not focus on him, give him the option of a BJ with nothing expected in regards to your pleasure, maybe this will help jump-start him so to speak.
Find out as I did what will help your H re-ignite the passion? My question, what can I do to help you?
Recognize, that you will get turned down, this happens on a regular basis with us, and I chalk it down to the differences in our sex drive and leave it at that
I think what are you doing is fantastic. You seem to have found a path that works for you and your H, and that is all any of us can do. Keep your thoughts and attitude geared in that direction, remain positive and focus on the small gains you make. When darkness begins to cloud your mind or your thoughts, stop them immediately, and get busy doing something else. The more any of us focus on what's wrong and what's not working the way we wish it too, the more unhappy and depressed we become.
You sound like you've approached your H in a very loving manner. He's dealing with issues I can't speak on as I am a woman. Maybe some of the guys here can tell you what he may be feeling.
Johanna, what do you think about Patsi's suggestion on the BJ thing? Have you tried that? What has the response been? If you do this for him, does he mind if you find your own pleasure with him there with you?
From what you have said, it sounds to me that your H may also be depressed. I understand from a woman's point of view why the sticky note idea is deflating. But remember that it isn't about you...it's about your counselor trying to find something that your H can try that he can begin to feel good about...an easy victory, as it were. I think he may be feeling that no matter what he tries, it isn't going to work, it isn't going to be enough, etc. That's not a slam against you...but I think how you can quickly see the vicious circle the two of you are trapped in. (We're all there with you!!)
I think Patsi's suggestion has some real merit...and if you've tried this and it hasn't helped, perhaps you can think of something else that will give both you and your H those small victories that can begin to help you both feel successful.
I think you moving out is a power play. I understand your frustration, I understand the motive. But I really think that if you follow this course, you will do more to hurt the situation than to help it. He will change for a time because he doesn't want to lose you. It will be an immediate patch, but I don't think it's going to help you find a long-term solution.
At least he is going to counseling. I know many men who flat out refuse this option. Try to be encouraging, try to remain positive. Try to help him find his victories.
And what about you. If any of us had the answer to this one, we'd be very rich. Your anger and frustration is palpable, and most certainly understandable. But, and I'm sure this is going to piss you off when I say this as much as it pissed me off when my shrink told me this....anger is a decision. You do not have to be angry. You have the infinite power to control your actions and your reactions. Disengage yourself from the roller coaster your are on. When you change yourself, your H will have no choice but to change as well.
My heart breaks for you because your pain and hurt is very clear and very deep. But don't be a victim to it any longer. You cannot change your H, but you can change yourself. The possibilities are limitless.
"Why not focus on him, give him the option of a BJ with nothing expected in regards to your pleasure, maybe this will help jump-start him so to speak. '
I'm really going to be sarcastic on this one, sorry Patsi. Umm, Patsi, he is the LD spouse, and it has been about 9 months since our last "encounter." I will not initiate because it is like molesting a young boy. The tactic that you are proposing is not an option in this case. I really resent that the idea that a promise and/or follow thru of a BJ will improve the situation. Like a BJ will solve the problems of the world. If it were a mutually satisfying experiance, then yes, that would be fine suggestion, but I want my needs satisfied once in awhile. And I deserve that at the very least. If he were the HD spouse then that might be a viable option, but not in this case. My needs are rarely even scratched, must less satisfied. Even with attending several counseling sessions, and admitting that he has no drive AT ALL, nothing from him in the bedroom. Not a hint, not a spark or even a slight suggestion. So if I would propose this option, he would hide even deeper from me. I am not even going to go there. He is being SLIGHTLY more attentive, especially since my depression is very palpable and visible. The meds have not really kicked in yet. I really resent that I have to be the one to go on antidepressents when if he would be romantic once in awhile I could bear our relationship. But twice a year to be romantic and then on his terms is not healthy, at least not for me.
He went so far to ask me to go to a movie with him yesterday. Cute movie, but when he put his arm around me it was very awkward. Another counseling session tomorrow night. We will see how that one goes.
Corri, If I "make my own pleasure" while I am serviceing him, it makes him even more uncomforatlble so why go there. I am tired of "taking things into my own hands" as it were. I really want him to desire me, which he cannot do. But he does not know the reason why he does not desire me even though I have asked him many times. He claims that he is not depressed, will not admit that his complete avoidance of sex is not healthy to our relationship, and really cannot understand why I am so upset about this situation. I have been a very loving, compassionate, non-demanding, (most of the time) supportive and caring spouse until the past few months because I cannot do this anymore. You cannot continue to give and give without getting anything back to "recharge your batteries." My batteries are almost dead and cannot recharge right now. He tells me and the therapist that I have been an exemplary spouse and that I have not done anything wrong in this relationship. So I am bitter because I have fought long and hard for him to understand my pain and emptyness of having a celibate marriage, and it completely escapes him.
I know that we are supposed to go to extrordinary lengths to do a 180, be exceedingly supportive, loving, all of that, but there comes a point that I just can't anymore. I have really hit a wall. Hard. It is a very tall and thick wall, I just cannot see over or around it right now. Seems that many of us HD spouses try very hard to make these relationships work for many years but we get very little satisfaction (sexual or otherwise) from our efforts to be loving and loyal spouses. No wonder we think about having affairs, we are so emotionally starved we are dying in these marriages. I may have a legal marriage, but in reality, it is a business venture. The relationship works fine as long as I do not complain about the utter lack of sex, but I really have not had that emotional and sexual connection that I feel is vital for a real marriage. I would like some romance and connection once in awhile, I think that you should be able to share that with with your spouse. But with out these connections, I have a business relationship. Or a roommate, take your pick.
I know that my anger and frustration is very evident in my posts, but I resent that it is "my decision" to be angry. My spouse's lack of acknowledgement of our problems has caused me to be angry. His refusal to see me as a vibrant, attractive, sexy woman has caused me great anquish. That I have to go on medication to function is a source of anxiety. I do not agree that it is solely my decision to be angry. He has had a great part in causing me to feel this way. Will I always be angry? I hope not but I do not know what the future holds for us.
Johanna, I know exactly how you feel. I have reached the point where 3 years of nothing, no touching at all, sleeping in separate beds (his choice, not mine), of living like roommates has caused me to want to totally leave the marriage and start new, but I haven't done that, not yet. I don't have any insight to give you, wish I did, can only say I hope the best for you.
I am sorry Johanna, we all can feel your pain. But, in no way was I saying giving a BJ would solve all the world's problems. I think you out stepped your boundries on this one. All I was saying was hey, give your husband some pleasure and he might in return respond. In marriages, there are many compromises, my concern if he knows how strongly you feel about this issue, and if he loves you, why is he not responding accordingly? Has he had his testosterone level checked? Many men at the age may need a testosterone creme to help with the libido. Just trying to help Johanna, don't beat up on me again. Patsi
I was the one with the higher drive in my marriage also. There is no longer a marriage. My ex used to tell me not to worry about his lack of drive....that it was his problem not mine. In no way could I make him understand that his problem was causing me to do without something that I had a right to expect from him. I was also made to feel as if I were choosing to be hurt and upset over the lack of sex in the marriage. I was also, for years before the divorce depressed and angry over it.
He was such an exceptional loving man in every other way that I actually bought into the idea that my attitude about "his problem" was the cause of my depression and anxiety. Right before he left the marriage he consented to having his testosterone level checked. We found out that he had virtually no levels at all. He started taking injections and for 3 weeks couldn't keep his hands off of me. It was heaven!! He stopped though, refused to take anymore and things went back to the way they were.
There was a question I never asked my husband. I think I didn't because I had bought so deeply into the idea that I was making myself sick and it really had nothing to do with his rejection. Now, if I could I would ask him this....why, if you say you love me and you see me suffering because of your lack of interest do you not do something about it? I would ask him why, if he is fully aware of the pain I was experiencing he chose to ignore it.
Johanna, your husband has problems that are causing you problems. You are being robbed of enjoyment and fulfillment that is rightfully yours. I agree that we have to be loving and compassionate but only to a certain point. I have to wonder about the counselor you are seeing. Why she isn't skilled enough to be able to help him see the damage he is doing to you. Also, more than likely, he has 2 things going on. Probably low hormones and some pretty severe psychological issues. I'm sure that even if he had the proper hormone levels he would still have a problem with intimacy. To ignore your feelings though and watch you suffer with depression is cruel and cowardly on his part. It's a conscious choice by him to allow you to carry the burden of a problem that is his and should be dealt with by him.
I lived it for years. I lived it to the point that it did damage to me that I will never get over. I am single now. I so internalized his rejection of me that I can't imagine a man seeing me naked. I look in the mirror and feel disgust at my own body. I am not a woman but an it. To survive in my marriage I had to stop thinking of myself as a woman who had normal desires and it is so ingrained in me that I'm afraid I will never experience a healthy, sexual relationship with a man. Please, don't let yourself get to that point. I NEVER tell anyone that divorce is the proper course. I especially never tell anyone that an affair is the right thing to do. I will, this time though, tell you that no marriage is worth losing yourself over. Especially not for a man who makes to choice to let his wife suffer the consequences of his own problem. Take it from me, being alone and sexless is better than being in a relationship with someone who rejects that part of you on a daily basis. Good luck to you! Cathy
You post really struck something in me, I totally identify with it. I am a XHD husband in distress, bailing out my little raft by myself, while my wife refuses to pick up the other bucket and help, saying there is no bucket.
“If I could I would ask him this....why, if you say you love me and you see me suffering because of your lack of interest do you not do something about it? I would ask him why, if he is fully aware of the pain I was experiencing he chose to ignore it.”
I have asked my wife this very question. I could not seem to get a real answer. She simply said, with total sincerity, that she was sorry that I was hurting so much but she had just become more asexual as time went on. She is convinced that there really is no way to change and that therapy or medication is not acceptable. She believes it is just who she is and I should accept her that way or find someone else. Well, yes, those are my two choices and eventually one or the other will win out. It’s not that she doesn’t just feel interested in sex, she doesn’t even want to feel that passionate desire. What can I say to that?
I can pretend to be able to improve the relationship by myself, I’ve struggled for years doing everything I can think of, but I’ve come to realize that self-survival within the marriage is all that is possible. I suppose I could have testoserone or something pumped into the air or water pipes.
It is sad to hear that you do not feel like a woman anymore and are disgusted by yourself. I have no doubt that you are an attractive woman with many qualities. My wife is absolutely lovely, slim (around 120 lbs) and dresses with style. She finds herself chunky, unshapely, unattractive. I want to pull out my hair when she looks in the mirror in disgust. If you are feeling unattractive I would say you need to work on rebuilding your self confidence.
I daresay probably the only thing truly unattractive about a woman is her lack of self appreciation. If you’re not seeing a counselor I think you should. Get someone to help you see that you can be attractive again. Be patient and work hard at it.
If you are happier with yourself guys WILL be attracted to you, guaranteed. I know this sounds like a chicken and egg situation but you need to realize that you’re free and need to take advantage of it. I’ve known some women that were less than slim but had plenty of self confidence, were flirty and fun. They had no problem attracting guys.
In spite of all the billboards telling what you have to be like to be beautiful, men don’t really care about a couple dozen extra pounds or a few wrinkles on a woman, if she exudes sexiness, confidence and kindness.
What good is a gorgeous model for a wife if she doesn’t care about sharing herself with you?
I knew that there were other women in my situation that were either going through or have been through the hell of rejection within a marriage. Thank you, Cathy, for offering yours words of comfort. I hope that you will find the beautiful woman inside of yourself again and find peace for you. I have been fortunate not to have had my femininity and self esteem totally taken from me, but on some days, I don't have any at all. You can regain yours, believe in yourself and come out of the cocoon that you are in to become that exquisite butterfly you are inside. Have faith and regain your confidence, but it is a long, slow and sometimes painful process.
I am curious why he left the marriage? I know that you have been on the boards for some time but I do not know your story. Thanks for listening to mine. And for your words of comfort.
H has had his hormonal level checked, and they are fine. Those test results put me in a tailspin for about two weeks. Here is a man that has normal levels of testosterone that has no interest in sex at all. I think that the medical profession has dealt me another blow. I was hoping, probably naively, that low hormonal levels were a significantly contributing cause to his lack of desire. And hormone treatment would be helpful. That is not in the cards for this marriage.
Now that it is probably all psychological, which I suspected for a long time, that is harder to deal with. At our counseling session last night, the therapist admitted that our problem was too severe for him to handle and not his area of expertise. I could have told him that day one. Nice guy, but he has no clue of what a celibate marriage is about or how destructive it is. So he is to refer us to a sexual dysfunction spacialist. We will see what happens with therapy.
I will not stop being the vibrant, attractive, confident, sexy woman that I am just because my husband can't appreciate me. It's his loss. And I will not believe in the unnatural dictates of a society that thinks that only young or slender women are the great beauties. How many men could live up to the studly ideal in the advertising copy? Very few. So why they fall for this crappy idealized woman that has no brain, point of view, or knowledge of the world is a pathetic statement about some men. Many of the most sought after women through out history were not beauties but prized for their minds, their wit and their connections. I hearken back to those days. I am not a beauty, am significantly overweight, but people are drawn to me because of my personality. If only my H could be drawn to me. There are days, especially lately, I am a messy puddle becasue I am struggling with this agonizing situation. I will continue to be who I am and what I am for myself. And by myself, if need be. I am grateful for my caring friends that understand and are supportive.
