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After all the hurt and anger, did you feel ripped off in life?

If so did the feeling pass ?

SPM - after all your hurt and anger, did you feel ripped off.

My H says that I will never understand how much I hurt him, how deep it goes?

Is this true?

Am i not understanding?

It did not happen top me so I cannot fully empathise , but I have read these forums, and books and seen C. I get an understanding of sorts.

What do I do ?

Yeah...the step 2 in the DR book. I'm still learning more about what I want in a good marriage. Writing it down is the hardest part.


Oh...yeah. I did that too.

Well, that's almost exactly what my W said. She thought she had wasted 13 years of her life being with me. She's also so angry at herself that she didn't spot this earlier. She's lost confidence in her ability to choose a winner and she doesn't want to date.



It's a paradox. I read in "the power of now" that forgiveness is the decision to not live in the past anymore. I know I did the lion's share of emotional damage. But there are still things she did that hurt me. If I dwell on them, I know I increase the possibility of me lashing out, or do something out of needy fear, or doing something stupid which would give her more reason to pull back and file for a D. A friend of mine once gave me some cryptic advice, "Just keep forgiving her". I understand that now. She's hurt and she lashes out. I just gotta wear it, and let it go. If I respond in kind, things just get worse. But it's SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO hard.



So maybe it's not a matter of me forgetting what I did to her. I know what I did and it's not pretty. I have taken many, many steps to correct myself. Counselling. Group work. Reading. Spiritual awareness. Weekends to find the sacred masculine within me. I'm exhausted. Doing what's required to make amends? Other than just being a good dad, there's not much more I can do. She doesn't want to be with me.

Thats what I am frightened of.

My focus became clear after the affair. I am someone who always looks to find positives and with the A I know that it saved me of another 20 years of a bad marriage. But in my awakening I killed it for H.

I know i have to take rsponsibility of my actions etc BUT why cant he see that now we could have the best marriage ever?

Yesterday was not a good day for me and I reverted back to needy. Not attractive. I seem to think I am making progress and I get comfortable and something happens and I get cross and he withdraws. WHY cant I be accepting of his decision and treat him with the respect I would a friend or family member. I would never of snapped at them .

When does this end.

Max...I know you are struggling...but for me, it would not be hard to imagine how the betrayal would feel.

In my marriage, I am the one who cheated...and it was a huge mistake.

However, in my current relationship, I would never cheat, mostly because I know better now...but also because I CHOOSE not to even entertain any thoughts of infidelity. I CHOOSE to be faithful, because I love and want only him.

So I think it is that choice you made to be unfaithful, regardless of your reasons, that your husband feels cheated about. He choose to be faithful, and you chose to be unfaithful. So he feels cheated out of a faithful marriage, something he held sacred to himself. Regardless of any other problems in your marriage, he always felt "well at least we have been faithful". Without that, he feels cheated now because the rules were different than he thought.

In my current relationship...I know that if he ever cheated on me, I wouldn't be able to be with him anymore. I could forgive him eventually and maybe even be his friend...but I could never kiss, hug, or have sex with him again...and I wouldn't want to even try. I would just let him go. So for some reason, I am able to imagine how I would feel if he cheated, and that is how I know the devastation to my ex-husband...in fact, I totally assumed my ex-husband would leave me when I confessed my affair to him - I didn't even think he would want to try. He did stay with me and we tried, but it was never fixed and we ultimately divorced over 10 years later...both of us unhappy that whole time.

I think you have the right to ask your H for forgivness and another chance...but you don't have the rigth to demand it from him. If he will not willingly come back and give it another try, then I don't really think you should chase after him.

I do wish somehow you could imagine yourself in his shoes so you would understand. For me it is easy to imagine how I would feel...

Again I'm sorry you are going through this.

DQ

Hm.

Did I feel ripped off? I wouldn't say that. I felt loss, though. Loss of trust, loss of what I thought was sacred and inviolable. [At the same time, I've done things that crossed the line and maybe my wife feels the same.] I guess loss of innocence is really what it was.

Not ripped off, though. For me that conjures images of someone else with my stuff. In a rip-off, someone else gains and I lose. Even if you squint and call her loyalty to me, mine, it doesn't fit. It's not a rip off. It's more like a flood or fire - destruction. No one wins. No one is coming out ahead in this.

So, no, I don't feel ripped off.

I was hurt, yes. Really hurt. But I always knew that would be temporary. It was hard but I knew that part would fade over time. I was getting over that. But she kept going back to him. She never stopped. That lead to even greater loss - the loss of the marriage itself. The loss of access to my kids. The loss of many tomorrows together, watching the school play, going to church together. Financial ruin. (I am not exaggerating) The loss of innocence for my children.

I don't agree that unfaithful people cannot understand how much they've hurt their spouses. I think they can, if they try. They can understand the impact. And they can make amends. They can rebuild. I think this because I have seen it. In my quest I have met people, not just online, who have survived marriage problems including infidelity.

So yes, I think that partners can understand the pain they caused each other. It's a mature realization that, WOW, I have done things that were damaging to my partner, my love. That's sad and sobering. But if one can develop a new resolve to goodness, we can avoid these things in the future. We can rebuild.

I also think that partners can carry their hurt too long. They can fall in love with victimhood. They nurture the hurt. And it grows and turns into an ugly jungle in their heart. And I think that's also unhealthy.

He says you will never understand how much I hurt him, how deep it goes? Those are the words of pain and resentment. What can you do, when he says that, but agree. Agree! "I know. I won't. I cannot understand. But I am so sorry. I regret what I have done."

Are you understanding? We tend to think of it as an either-or thing. But it's more of a growth thing. A continual process. I hate the way that sounds - like psychobabble - but it's true. You realize things over time, obliquely. You grow in understanding quietly, steadily, after long efforts at living mindfully.

You asked, What do you do?
Hmmm, this is going to sound like a repeat: Get a life!

He isn't going to come back to you in the state he is in. You cannot lead him. You cannot take his hand and walk with him into the sunshine. I know how sad that is. I actually asked my wife that: "please, take my hand, let's walk this path together." But she couldn't. Wouldn't. It was very sad for me, to see her response.

So what can you do? get a life. Fill it up. I know, you have things you want, that you cannot have. Ok, pick the next best thing. And if not that, then the next best thing. Music? Cooking? Nature? Helping kids? Being the best bridge player in the neighborhood? You've got to care for yourself to be able to care for others.

Be sorry. Feel contrite. Accept responsibility. (But don't wallow in guilt! It won't help.) Be resolved to treat people better - everyone. See how many smiles you can generate in a day.

And hope. Always hope. Hope for better times. Hope for changed hearts. Hope for bright tomorrows. Hope forever. That doesn't mean wait for him, forever. But always hope for good things. Good things for him, good things for you. Maybe even together. Expect good things. They will come. Not instantly. Maybe not in exactly the form you thought or imagined. But good things will come. We must hope joyfully.

And if you are blessed, he will see you living and enjoying life, and he will see the hope and charity in your face and he will be attracted to you again.

Maxy,
I am in counseling and we talked about this very thing the past couple of weeks. how do we get to this point? And actually I had read on the topic, in books by Thich Nhat Hanh, on why we treat the people we love, badly.

And guess what! Getting a life helps with this. If you are finding things you enjoy, things that nurture you, you will be less likely to snap at loved ones.

You will have more patience and acceptance of his decision. You will accept the fleeting nature of all things.

It will get better for you. For now, FAKE IT till you make it.

Why try to avoid?

This is what you WANT, isn't it? A heart-to-heart. Why avoid it? Don't AVOID !

There is a recommendation in the DB practice to NOT pursue a relationship talk. But the corollary is to NEVER avoid one if your partner desires it.

This is your CHANCE! He is reaching to you. You should delight in the opportunity to listen to him. If only my wife would speak to me!

People are afraid of the emotion. But it MUST COME OUT. He needs to talk through it. What better person to talk through it with, than YOU? Those are good chances for you, good opportunities. Don't dread them.

But prepare yourself! Prepare yourself to hear of his hurt. to empathize. To NOT be defensive. Steel yourself. Get yourself in shape, spiritually.

SPM - your replies above were the best thing I have read in a long long long time. Just magic..

Ok I think i have this stuff right:

1. When he wants heart to heart - be supportive, contrite, sorry and understanding.

2. Accept every oppotunity to build a happy memory.

3.Do not be needy.

4. GAL and if thats to hard, fake it.

I have done all of the above and seen small bits of hope only to shoot myself in the foot later on.

I think that when he coins the phrase ripped off, he really means cheated. I cannot imagine nor come to grips that I am not married to this man any more. I think my big problem is, that i have always had control, I have always manipulated this man, he has done everything I ever wanted, in his own words he says his love for me was priceless. Nothing on this earth meant as much as me.

I struggled being on this pedestal.

Did you have your wife here ? Is that why we stray ? Pressure to much !

I am no longer on that pedestal and as much as I miss the love , I enjoy having respect for him now. His coldness and distance has made me respect him and consequently I am a better person.

Thank you again for an amazing response.

How ?