Divorcebusting.com Forums Divorcebusting.com Archives Surviving the Big D Archives HELP x ripped out another rug -

I hear you on that.

Funny, when we went into this in Divorce Care this week, I actually felt sorry for him that he doesn't even know this himself. And that there isn't anyone who can help him see it, until (or if) he does the work himself.

So sad, really. A once-good man who threw his life, integrity and love away.

Sad, for sure. I have wondered if it was ever really there. Sometimes, I think that maybe there are just different levels because that is how they seem to operate. Like on a certain level they are the men we know and could count on but looking back and remembering certain interactions with other people, I see it differently. Makes me wonder at times, what the real deal is.

I am so sick of the OW bashing.

Look, if your X "affaired down," then X's GF "affaired down" too. So, the LBS's are all so much better than the WASs, right?

Then why do any LBS's want their WASs back?

No doubt, LBSs are more together and farther ahead in some areas, but they have their weaknesses

But WASs have their own strengths and weaknesses.

On the whole, I'd agree that LBSs tend to be farther along the path of personal growth and emotional maturity than their WASs in many important ways. Indeed, that is probably a major reason that the Ms are so dysfunctional to begin with — there is a very deep mismatch in partners, a very ill-fit.

But to condemn others because you are farther along than they are is ugly. Shall we all go bash Newcomers because we are farther along than they are? Should I deem myself superior because I am in a healthy, vibrant, passionate M due in large part to the growth that occurred while I slogged myself through my divorce woes?

WASs are not evil, they are not better or worse than the people they get involved with. Remember, BOTH parties in an A are doing something they really shouldn't do. They are not victims of their A partners. And it is the WAS who is guilty of the deep betrayal of the LBS.

Scrambling for feelings of superiority is not a good way to feel good about oneself. Finding compassion and understanding and even respect for those who have hurt us is a much better strategy in the long run. Imagine the deep pain and feelings of being lost, of desperation, of misery that led to their actions. They did the best they could, it is very sad that they couldn't do better.

Ellie is surely right about the bottom line: it usually isn't about US at all, but about them and their problems.

Personally, I don't get a lot of pleasure or self-worth by considering myself more worthwhile, better, or more valuable than people with big problems who are in a lot of pain.

I'm very fortunate and appreciate my life. I can feel sad for them. But I know that I am not better than them simply because I'm farther along than they are.

And if the LBSs can lose some of their arrogance, they'll see that there are ways that the WASs are farther along than they are.

In the D process, both partners suffer, both grow, both stall, they do it in different ways.

"I read that, in our 20's, our Rs serve as "I'll be good and take care of you, you be good and take care of me." We are trying to be what the other person needs.

The next stage of life (which women hit first, like other social development) is when you start to look at yourself and try to meet your own needs. You realize that another person can't "complete" you or make you happy, so you set about learning how to do that for yourself.

I think that is what happened in my M. I got to that stage first. Having raised my kids to being more self-sufficient, and caring for my mother through her sickness and death, I was ready to reinvest in myself. I started to focus more on my career, a dream job that I have wanted to do since grade school. I got involved in scouts again, something that I had always loved (and where I had met x, actually).

I just didn't realize that he was still in the "I'll be good so you will take care of me" stage."

Donna,

This is so great!!! Good work!!!

I've thought it was pretty clear for a long time that this is what happened in your M. In some ways, your mother's death must have been very freeing. You began to grow and blossom. Your co-dependence lessened, and X wasn't at a place where he grow with you. (Hey, he was living with his parents!)

However it happened, you both got to a place where it wasn't a healthy fit. He realized it first and took action, though pretty poor choices of actions for sure.

For me, the only reason would be my kids and my marriage vows, you know the "until death do us part".



Sure but I think a big thing is that WAS realize that we all have strengths and weaknesses or flaws and will accept the person and stay in the marriage anyway.



I agree they are both equally guilty but I've never loved OW like I did my H or had children with OW, so I feel free to trash! And this is probably horrible of me, but I do feel superior in morals and values and consideration of my children. I wouldn't have an affair when I was married with a married OP like they did in my sitch, and everytime H sees the kids now (we are still married) takes the OW along on their dates or whatever you call them. I think that's disgusting. So sorry, yeah I think I'm better!!! Karen

I don't know if I agree with this.

Was it an unhealthy fit? I believe that there is an ebb and flow in Rs. You can't be in the exact same place all of the time, and growth is never linear, anyway. There are high and low points.

Maybe we are on the same wavelength when you say he felt this and took action (although poor choices)--in Rs that last, the action would be COMMUNICATION. Both partners working together on and for the R.

It was very good for a very long time - I still believe that.

Issues for us, were that 1) neither of us had any experience with a variety of different Rs and people, and 2) ex didn't have any experience or enough esteem to face and deal with conflict. I did, so assumed that he did, too.

I think I lean more to the philosophy of that guy from Marriage Builders, that co-dependence becomes blurred in a marriage, between what is healthy and what isn't. My (over) attachment only became obvious and a problem when he was no longer there. If we had better communication skills, I think we would have learned how to deal with this a long time ago and been happily together.

Maybe not. I can only look at this with my own eyes, and as has become really clear, is that I haven't had a complete picture of what his inner world is like.

I can't look back and say, wow, I never realized just how bad that marriage was. Maybe I will someday...I guess time will tell, when I have more comparisons to look at. But I do know that I felt happy, and loved, and content.

If you took a slice of our lives, morals, outlooks, etc. today, though, it would be obvious that we don't fit.

That is the reality of today. I will not fathom a guess as to what the future holds. I used to think I knew......and look at just how wrong I was.

I've compared R's to celestial bodies under the effects of gravitation and the Laws of Motion. Like binary stars. A couple is in orbit with each other -- some orbits are circular and stationary, others (most) are more elliptical in nature. Thus there is an aphelion and perihelion to our orbit with our spouses. If nothing else changes, the orbit should be maintained, no matter how eccentric the orbit might be. This would approximate "the high and low points" you alluded to. However, there are the gravitational influences of other objects that tend to disturb the stability of the orbit.

My W was influenced and torn from her orbit with me because another gravitational body came into influence right at the worst point, near aphelion. I guess she just didn't have as much gravitational mass as I thought.

Feeling sorry for them - that was the feeling I had in Divorce Care last week.

Did they have the intensity of the pain that I experienced? Was it the same, similar, or even half that? Because I am truly surprised that I lived through it. If he felt anything like that at all.......it is hard to fathom someone being in that torment and not having anyone around him see it.

But I have to take his word for it - he felt that he was in "misery." So I am sorry for what he went through, and how alone he must of felt. But I also feel sorry for what lies ahead for him; I don't think he's seen suffering, yet. Maybe he will just live the rest of his life this way, rather than go through that, who knows? But I do know that there is no one who can help him, even though I had thought that those trials were to be shared, once upon a time.

As far as having compassion for the other woman? I don't feel a need to. I'd rather consider her a non-entity, as if she didn't exist. I just don't want her to influence or affect my kids negatively......

I like NoCode's metaphor of celestial bodies about this concept. And it can all happen on the subconscious level. In the end, it just doesn't matter.

This cracked me up!!! Interesting way of looking at it all, I suppose.

NC, you are brilliant! I love that analogy as well.

Wow Donna, how you have grown in such a short time. When you first started this thread you were desperate to get your H back. Now it sounds like you are close to acceptance, and doing it with loving grace. It gets hard at times, lord knows, but I find that the lows dont last so long and they come further and further apart. As far as the OW is conserned, I'm with Karen on that one. I do look down on her because she KNOWING contributed to the distruction of a M and took part in hurting children. If they are so hot for our H, then wait for our H to D us then go after them. No, I am a better person becuase I would NEVER be with someone who was still married - even if he said he was in the process of getting a divorce. Show me the decree and then we will talk.