Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums We're separated--What Now? Please help me to not give up............

Now that was a great post!! I do not see how anyone could be more positive and realistic at the same time as you seem to sound now.

You have answered some of my concerns and I appreciate it. Sounds as though you are doing all the DBing just right. You will have your moments that you feel down and discourage and think it's time to give up......but, keep coming here to talk to us so it will keep your strenght and determination high. Also, venture out to read other post and forums. The more that you post to others, the more response you will get and that help. You can be a help to others, Grant, b/c of your personal insight and experience.

Thanks for responding to me. I look forward to seeing your progress. Just remember it will be in the smallest of baby steps for some time.....but they do add up.

Take care,
Sandi

Just felt the need to journal today. Not much to report. I did feel very positive since the weekend, but am feeling a bit vulnerable and tearful today. I guess I'm thinking about the weekend when my W and kids are going to a big Music festival. I will miss out on another opportunity to DB and be with my family. That sucks, but I will just have to work through it and try to do something gal to stop me spiralling into depression.

I have really been focusing on reinforcing positive thought and visualization, and I felt that it had been drawing strength to me. Got to keep that up, even though my contact is limited now. I miss her and my boys. I would so love to be at home more often, but I know I'm not wanted there.

She often questions me about what I think separation means. Perhaps because I'm acting as if, and trying not to obsess about our R, M, and OM.
She really wants to convince me that it's over, and we are separate people now.

I'm not sure what the difference is in real terms between S and D. Guess D is more final (although not for all). I'm glad she hasn't decided to file yet, and maybe if I continue to work on me and in developing our friendship and a new relationship, I can start toward new possibilities. There is no hint that she is even close to wanting to work on things, although I must be grateful for the baby steps that have occurred so far. In some ways things are so much better than they were a month ago.
I know I mustn't read anything into it, but she hugged me and called me "honey" when we parted........ something she hasn't done for a very long time.

I have only really been DBing for 6 weeks or so, and even though it's been nearly 6 months since the bomb, I know I must continue to have an unlimited supply of patience. Sometimes it just hits you again like a truck, and I begin to cry for our lost love, and for our family and life together. I know that our old R is dead, but sometimes it's hard to separate our 20 years together, and my new reality.

It's our anniversary at the end of this month, and already I'm starting to fret about how to handle it. I don't think she will like to be reminded of it, and she knows that I never forget, always get a card, flowers etc. Perhaps, as someone on here suggested, a text. But she really doesn't like texting much. Guess I'll wait and see how things develop over the next few weeks.

Oh well, onwards and upwards.......

Morning (((Grant))) sorry you are having such a rough day!

I just went through the anniversary in July. I knew I wanted to do something to acknowledge the day, but its not like you can tell your S "Happy Anniversary" when, lets face it, its not.

I sent him an email. My H is from Germany, so I sent it in German that just said I am thinking of you today, hope you have a good day.

I never got a response, never was acknowledged, but I know that I didn't push the issue, said something nice, and created a memory for him of that day that he will not likely forget.

My suggestion, if you feel the need to acknowledge the day, then fine, but don't go over the top. Maybe something of the same, a quick email stating you are thinking of your W, and hopes she has a good day.

Hi, I know you were journaling your thoughts, but I was just going to respond to a couple of things b/c I think you are doing super great and don't want you to cave in. First, it is only normal to feel a let down.....especially after we seem to have a little victory. That is just the way life is. Especially in M problems there is the ups and downs. Today, you are feeling the down side and you will have more....and you are realistic enough about it to realize that.

You are doing the right thing to find something to keep yourself busy while she and the boys are doing something special. Go somewhere special yourself. Be with friends, but don't sit home alone. Okay?

In responding to her asking if you knew what being S was all about......what if you were to say, "Yes, I understand that, but can't we stay on friendly terms?" I was first going to say, "can't we still be friends?" However, that may place pressure on her and she would see it as pursuing. By saying that you want to stay on friendly terms.....she can see that in different ways. How do you think she would react to that? Even if she looked at it as staying on friendly terms during D proceedures.....it would still leave a door open for you. I believe that is how you are going to have to reach her and to draw her back to you again is through the "friendship" route. Anything else will make her resist you more. You have to win her trust in you as her friend, first. She has to be relaxed about that before anything else can develop. Some men do not understand that concept and say, "I can't be just a friend with my wife!" They are not seeing the entire picture, but I think you do. This is the "route" you take to reach her.

Sounds like you are a romantic about wedding anniversaries and the 20th one at that....wow! That's got to hurt. My suggestion is no flowers at all. She would see it as pursuing and not acting "separated". But, I would find a nice card.....nothing mushy and romantic about how great your love is, etc. It's kind of hard to find one that fits the stitch. Maybe you could find one about how she will always be your best friend! But,anyway, you have let her know that you did not forget it, (thereby being an a$$ in her eyes...to accuse you about) and yet it puts no pressure on her. You said someting about a "text"......are you going to be away from home during that time? If so, then you might just send a light text and keep it friendly telling her that you hope she had a good day and got your card. Keep it short and simple and expect nothing from her. That way, you won't set yourself up for disappointment. That is one of the major problems the LBS have.....they set themselves up for disappointments b/c they are clinging to some type of expectations from their WAS. It is very hard to send any email etc. without sounding........clingy or pursuing.

Well, let us know what happens. You know, I hope, that you can come here to let out your frustrations to us at any time. We are here for you, Grant. Please take care of youself.

Sandi

Lola, wie geht es heute?

Sorry, that's about the extent of my HS German!!

Thanks for replying to my post. Looking at it now, it seems kinda ridiculous to start obsessing about what I'll do for our anniversary. She won't want to be reminded of it, though we will absolutely both know about the day. We never forget, and I do always get a card. I think it's good advice from you and Sandi, to just let her know that I'm thinking of her on the day. She will know that anyway.

Lola, I'm sorry you had to go through the anniversary thing recently. Sounds like you handled it with your usual applomb and diplomacy. You amaze me, you really do.

I did have a really rough day yesterday, and though I really tried, I just ended up weeping and joining the self-pity party. lol

I went to my 12 step meeting yesterday, which I always have kind of mixed feelings about. I know that I'm doing something good and positive for me and for all the people in my life, and though I know that it's not something I have to do just because my wife feels so strongly about it and has cited it as one of the main reasons for our break up, and I must do it for myself, I do sometimes get depressed about the fact that I am there, and there is no support or encouragement from my W.
So many of the other people at these meetings seem to have hugely advanced problems of serious addiction, with multiple partners, prostitutes, etc. Many of them are still in relationships or marriages where their partner is standing beside them.
Sometimes I want to scream at them, and say, "For God's sake, look at what you have with your partners and the support and love that you have". I hope I can help them too though with sharing my experience and my huge sense of loss and remorse.

I guess yesterday I just began to feel a little overwhelmed by the enormity of all that I'm going through right now. It's the endless self-examination, reflection, SA meetings, counselling, journalling, self-help books, and of course just the dealing with the day to day situation of living my life without love, affection, and even much social interaction.

I think the biggest thing is the fact that I have lived my life for the last 8 years working 14 hours a day, pretty much on my own most of the time, for 4-5 days a week, and then returning home to my "other life".

Ostensibly, on the face of it, that hasn't really changed. I'm still trying to earn a living and to provide for my family, except now I don't have the love and support of my W. Of course, I still want to do this, because I must look after her and my children and keep a roof over their head. It feels like it's still the right thing to do, and frankly it seems like my options are few.

I would give up my career and even look at options outside of Music, even though I have done it since I was a child. But there are so few options for me that would get me a job closer to home, and that would continue to pay our bills.
In any case, she doesn't want me to be there anyhow, so I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place.

It's also so difficult to gal here, as any friends, hobbies, etc. that I did have are part of my other life at home, which of course I no longer have. This makes it all a bit hard to cope with sometimes.

The good thing is that it gives me an opportunity to really look at myself, and to work on my issues. I know that is a good thing.

My W did say last week, that maybe I could home in the week, rather than at the weekend. Or to alternate it week to week.

I had thought at first, that was maybe so she could feel free to pursue her R with OM at the weekend without me around. But perhaps on reflection, this might in a way, be another baby step, and an opportunity to show that I could alter my lifestyle and be there for the boys in their day to day lives for a couple of days a week.

This might be a good thing, although being alone at weekends are a real killer for me. It's not so bad during the week, when I can just focus on my work to get me through.

Sandi, since our S, it is my wife who has said that she wants to be friends. I don't think she has any problem with that. The difficulty has been with me dealing with her affair, and the idea that I could be "just friends". Though through DR, I have come to realise that the ONLY way toward repairing our M is through re establishing
that friendship. It's not just that it would be a good thing, it's absolutely crucial, and since I have started down that route, she has definitely softened a little.

My worry is that as soon as she sees that I am apparently comfortable with friendship, she will initiate THE talk about our future and D. That's what she said before. "I want to get to the point where we can be friends and talk about our future. If we decide to divorce then we will do it together to save any bitterness".

I guess I still don't REALLY know what that means. If she is so dead set on her being "done", and wanting to move on in her life, then why doesn't she just file now and be done with it.
I can see that she might be holding off because of our kids, her Mum (who now lives with us), the family home, finances etc. But currently I find it hard to believe that she's holding off because of any hope she might have of her feelings toward me changing. "I don't love you, I don't respect you, and my trust in you has died".

That's pretty damning.

She might also be waiting for the situation with OM and his wife to reach some closure, so she can feel able to move on with him. She is a very loyal and faithful good person, and I know she would feel bad about taking up with him if he was still with his wife. Though it has not stopped her from pursuing an EA with him to this extent.


I have learned that WAS do speak in absolute negatives, but I have seen some positive steps as a result of my efforts of late.

I know I'm living too much inside my own head, and I've still got such a long way to go.

It's funny you saying that I'm a romantic Sandi. My W says that I'm not romantic, and that everything revolved around sex. I really don't believe that's true. If that were all there was to it, how could we have stayed together for 20 years? Also, our sexual relationship was not terribly good for a long time, and if it had been just about sex for me, then I would have moved on many many years ago.

That not withstanding, I know that she has felt lonely, isolated, and unfulfilled. She has said as much to me, and I know she has put up with an awful lot for a very long time. It's interesting about the rule of thumb for 1 month for every year that you are married to repair things. I guess for me that could mean another year of this.......

Oh God.

I know I can cope with this if I can see even small gradual steps toward improvement. I keep praying, keep working, and trying to have faith.

Thanks so much to you Sandi and Lola for being there for me. I really don't know how I would manage were it not for your compassion and kindness.

Hi Grant

Just to let you know that my 16th anniversary is also this month - the 19th! H is going on holiday on that day with his gf, he did ask me before he booked it if that was ok, and it was at the time, but now... it breaks my heart. I can't really mark it at all. So, I've decided to have a party for all the people who have supported me recently! (would invite you but it's girls only...!)

Sorry to hear that you have been feeling overwhelmed. I know what you mean about all the introspection, journalling, self-help books etc. I know I don't have to encourage you to continue to attend the meetings as I know you will. I think you bring a unique perspective to the others who are there and still with their partners. Also sharing your experience has been very beneficial for me, and I am very grateful to hear it. Just wanted to give you some encouragement.



It's interesting that she wants you both to decide about divorcing together. I wonder if to push forward with the divorce talk now, when you so clearly do not want to divorce and therefore it would be her impetus, is not something she can face. She wants you to be friends, talk about divorce in a 'friendly' way, and then for you to be happy about her decision. I don't know, it just reminds me of the first thing H said to me - 'I'm not very happy with you but don't worry, because plently of people divorce and remain really good friends!'. She might feel completely different about you though if you were really good friends, and it just might turn the whole thing around.

The one benefit of being able to identify yourself as a co-addict or co-dependent, is you can apply the steps to your situation. Perhaps you can do a little step 1 work around your W? Having done all you can in your DB efforts, you recognise that you are powerless... does that work?

I'm only sorry I can't say anything more constructive. It's frustrating being here and having people give you such wonderful advice and support and then not really being able to post much in return...

Don't give up!

Hi HC,
It was really lovely of you to take the time to post on my thread.... Thankyou!

Please don't feel bad about not saying anything "more constructive". I think you do yourself a great injustice here.

I read your post and was literally amazed at how insightful you are. I know we both have insider experience to some extent in some of the specifics of our respective sitch's.
Thanks for the encouragement about the meetings too. One of the difficulties that I face, is knowing that I cannot use pornography as a means of sexual release.
I have never been physically unfaithful, and have never wanted to be. I justified it's use as something "for me" that did not affect anyone else, and as a means for coping with my high sex drive, and being away from my W for most of the week.

I know now of course that it has had profound and lasting damage on my R.

So, it is one of the few things in my life that I can attempt to change, by accepting that I have a problem, and am basically powerless over it.

I stared open-mouthed at your second to last paragraph about step 1 work around my wife. It makes perfect sense, and strangely I think, is very much in line with the DB ethics. About accepting that you are powerless over another person's wishes and decisions. That's why I always chant my mantra about accepting the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.

But Hope plays a big part in the ability to fight on when it seems all odds are against you. I don't think that accepting that there are things you can't apparently change precludes having Hope. At any rate, while I know that it's good to cultivate a sense of moving on, gal, etc, I personally feel that I have to hold onto some hope to keep me strong and fighting. Even if on some days, I feel like I'm just in denial and should accept the finality of it all.

I'm sorry that you are also approaching an anniversary too, and too have it coincide with H's trip......... well, bloody hell. That is very painful. You are so strong, and to be respected and admired for your fortitude and dignity. I think it's a wonderful idea to get together some friends and just have a bit of a laugh. That's great.

It's funny, but that quote from my wife had been going rond and round my head since she said it and I've never really had an understanding of what it might mean.
Of course, I know what she's saying and what it looks like she means, but I guess part of my strategy is to try to NOT think about the absolute negatives that she has given me.
Your take on it is, once again, really insightful, and it's absolutely entirely possible that is exactly what she's thinking.
Some time ago, when I realised the extent of her certainty to end things, and with her EA, (or whatever it might be now), I said to her that SHE must want a divorce. At that time, she said it was too soon. It was about 3 weeks ago that she said she didn't want to talk about divorce at the moment, and if she felt it, she would move in her own time. That doesn't feel like she's considering my feelings or state of mind on the face of it. Perhaps I'm wrong, I don't know.

I do think think it's accurate though about her not wanting it to be her impetus. She would feel guilty about that, as up until now, she has placed all blame for our M breakdown squarely on my shoulders. Her inititiating D, would transfer that larger responsibilty and blame to her.

Now here's where I cling to my optimistic streak........

But maybe, just maybe, even though she says she's done, and nothing I have seen or heard to date would prove otherwise, she is waiting to see what happens with us.

Denial, Deluded, impaired thinking?
Perhaps.....

But just for tonight, I'm going to leave here with that optimistic positive premise in my head. It might just help me work harder and get me through another day.
Even if it's Bo£$%&^s.

Thanks so much, thinking of you.
Take care.

Hi Grant,

In response to some things you have said:

Sometimes, we try to take on too much at once. When you begin to feel this sense of being over-whelmed....just back off a few days and give your brain a rest. It will help just to relax as best you can. Try to take a break from the turmoil in your life....easier said than done, I know, but you must take care of yourself.

Not to lay a guilt trip on you at all when I say this b/c a lot of men have to work away from home....and long hours, however, a lot of those have problems keeping the homefires going b/c there are not many hours left in a day by the time you put in 14 working, then a few hours of sleep....that doesn't leave much. Even when you are home, you must be exhausted! What I am saying is that as a WAW, I can see where it would leave your W feeling lonely and neglected, even though you felt you were doing the best you could. It is very hard to have a M and family life working away from home that much.

You have seen by reading the DR book where this has to be the first step, but that is not to say that is the way you will "feel" toward her.....just as friends. You will always love her as your wife, but she must think of you as her friend. That is the point here. You have to win her trust as being her friend before anyother feelings can develop for her.

Tht is usually the first fear that most LBH's have, so it is normal to feel that you are taking a big risk at being her "friend". But, what she doesn't realize is that when she lets down her guard to allow you to be her friend and she starts to trust you and begins to relax around you, she will also begin to see how much you have improved and that you are indeed out shining the OM. She will begin to turn to you more than the OM. Believe me when I say this is the best route to take. That is not to say that you allow her to disrespect you or to use you like a doormat. She is to respect you like she would any other friend and visa-versa.

Just try not to analyze it and take a day at a time. You can't figure out the mind of a WAW. Every day that she doesn't file is another day that gives you time to DB.

I have to leave for a few hours, but will return later to finish this.

Thanks so much Sandi. Wise words, as always.

I am so bitterly aware that my working away from home for so long has played a huge part in my downfall, and our break-up. I just wish I knew what to do about it now.

I was thinking about a plan, where I could try to work from home more. The technology is now available for me to be able to do that with capital investment in more equipment. I'm more than prepared to do that. But her reaction when I talked about trying to work and be there more, either with another job or working from home at least part time, was met with grave concern. She actually said that it really upset her that I was considering that. She went on to say that she had wanted me to try to make that change for so many years, but now it was simply too late.

I know that if I could do this, it would be an enormous 180 life change for me,and she would certainly notice it in a big way. But how can I consider it, if she really is adamant that she doesn't want that now?

I guess I am impatient to make changes that will be dramatic, along the "actions speak louder than words route". But equally, know that I cannot hurry this along in any way.

I appear to be left with my only option, which is to continue to cultivate a warmth and friendship in the weekend visits that I have.

Sandi, all that you say makes perfect sense. You are truly wonderful for helping me fight through this........

Hi, I'm back, so I'll try to pick up where I left off, but first to reply to this statement you made:



That is the resentment she is feeling that is talking. I know that when my H suddenly...out of nowhere...starting smothering me with attention, I resented it terribly b/c by then I had already turned my heart toward another man and the last thing I wanted to deal with was my H's attention toward me. I had wanted that for so many years and he waited until another man was interested in me before he gave it to me? Well, I felt just like you W told you.....a little too late. But, that is the WAW's heart, so you need to do what you think is best for your children and you......not what you think she will want right now b/c she doesn't even know what she truly wants. She flip-flops from day to day. She may also see this as you trying to either control her or to smother her. She wants freedom and space, so don't do anything that "appears" to be compromising that for her.

Okay, to back up to your previous post:

I like to replace the word "hope" with "faith". If you have an object of your faith....then you can place all your confidence in that object. Now, at the risk of sounding "preachy" let me explain. I believe faith is a spiritual concept and as a Christian, I can place my "faith" in the One who has the power to control the universe and my circumstances. I don't put faith in people.....I have confidence in those I know and can trust, but "faith" is spiritual and there is only One that I put my faith in. Anyway, although God will not force His will on another person, He can control things and work bad things to turn around for good to them that love Him. So, I have faith in that. It is that promise in His Word that has kept me going through the bad times in my life. So, by all means, do not give up hope....we all must have hope in order to keep going. We can chage ourselves and we have the power to respond to our circumstances in a positive or a negative way. That response can determine a lot of outcome. We also have control over some parts of our circumstances and we, as parents, have control over our children that are still under age,however, we do not have control over other adults. "Some" men....not all, but some who are use to being in authority (especially over other situations--like a work, etc.) find it very difficult to not be able to control their W. It is most frustrating to them. I'm not saying this is you, only that some do.

Things your wife says and does will hurt you, and that is why you cannot set yourself up for disappointment. You need to know and expect this to happen. Never let down for a second and think that maybe this one day...this one time...she may act or say something normal. She will hurt you if you believe what she says. She will rewrite your history together. She will say things that make no sense whatsoever to you. She may sound as though she has lost her mind. She is in a fog and at times, she herself will doubt her sanity. You have to discipline yourself not to dwell on things she has said and "wonder" what she meant by all of it. She may have been rambling and meant nothing. Who knows??

. Okay, on this....don't use the word divorce around her and don't even place the thought of a divorce in her mind. If she talks to you about getting a divorce, just tell her that that is not what you want, but don't get into a fight with her. Stay calm and if she starts throwing a fit....walk away. If she claims she is going to file....then just tell her that is that is what she feels that she has to do then so be it, but that isn't what you want. Don't beg or plead....just talk camly. But, you need to advise her that you will not be the one to move out of the house, if she wants to leave the M, then she will be the one to have to move and that you will not help her do it. She needs to know that you will not support her financially. You will pay support for the children, but not to her. (Unless the courts order it, but wait until then), and don't do anything about filing for the divorce yourself. Let her do all the work. You do nothing unless unless it is to protect your finances. If you see that she is draining your bank account or running up credit charges.....act fast. I don't know what the laws are in your state, but you are under no obligation to finacially support her if she chooses to leave the M. That is her decision to leave and she needs to realize what it will be like to live without your financial support or any other help. It is called "tough love". Support your children by buying whatever they need, but that doesn't include a new house, car, etc. (if you get my meaning). Some H's say they don't want their kids living in a dump, etc., but I say the wife needs to realize what reality will be like for them. I understand not wanting the children to suffer for the W's decision, but don't confuse it with male ego and be giving the W the benefits of what is disguised as "child support".

That is common for all WAW's. If it wasn't, they would not leave. Also, it justifys their A. Don't take all the blame. You can't undo the past. Accept the part that you know was your fault but don't beat yourself up every day for the breakdown of the R. It takes two to have a R together. Just resolve to be the best you can be from here on. Stop living in the past....just learn from it. It is a hard, curel teacher, but we can become a learned student and come out better for it.



No, sweetie, we all need to cling to an optimistic streak, just as I talked about earlier. If you gave up, then you would just have to move on without even trying. But, there is a difference in acting "as if" and completely giving up. Acting as if means to act as if you are going to be good regardless of whatever happens. Then do the "actions" to prove it. You are acting as if you have had a wake-up call and you are going to make the most of every day that you have. DBing is a combination of being optimistic and being realistic. You aren't living in denial. But, I want you to go by that list I have. Did I give that to you, or have you seen it on another post? It is sort of a breakdown or short-cut to the DB rules.

Grant, you are going through a tough time and there is no getting around it. You will need all the stength and support you can get. If you are a spiritual person, then draw from that. If you have good family and friends, enjoy them and spend time with them......however, don't talk about the R with them. They will take sides and that isn't good. Besides, it causes problems later. (Sorry, if I've already said all this before...I forget.)

You know that we are here for you on the board. You can draw strength here. I know I did!

It is important to take very good physical care of yourself also. Try to get enough sleep and eat a good diet. Exercise is very good when people are going through this type of stress.

I will talk to you later. Hope your day will be one of the better ones.

Sandi