I just hated to see nobody posting on this forum so I thought I'd give a quick update. I've gone over two weeks now without any kind of an argument with my wife and I'm feeling pretty good about it. The last two weekends have been nice. No suddden romance, but I feel like she's becoming more comfortable around me - more open, talkative, etc. As long as I keep my head on straight and don't screw things up I think that things will eventually start improving. It's kind of become a game with me now - trying to make sure that I'm not the one to reset the "intimacy clock".
I've been trying to be understanding, helpful, and loving while also doing more things for myself. Nearly every night after getting the girls to sleep I've either been running or going to the driving range to hit golf balls. Both have been a nice distraction.
Yesterday the whole family went to the lake with a friend of my wife's who has a boat. We had a nice time, and seeing my wife in her bathing suit always gets me a little worked up - especially when the water got choppy causing her to bounce (that tends to put me into a bit of a trance). But although it nearly killed me, I managed to not make any advances last night - that's always tough for me after a day at the lake. My wife's friend (a female), while a nice person and generally fun, is so much like one of the guys that it gets old being around her. That got me to thinking about how happy I am to have my wife. I honestly consider her to be my best friend and I can't imagine spending my life with anyone else. Today I sent her some flowers at work, and on the card I wrote something like "You are my best friend in the world and I can't imagine living my life without you. Thank you for being so wonderful". I truly meant that and I hope that it made her feel good, especially in the midst of all the crap she has to put up with at work. And for once I'm really not expecting anything in return - I just wanted her to know how much I love her and how thankful I am to have her. If I can continue to do that, without expecting her to reciprocate, I think that the intimacy in our relationship will eventually come back. I hope so anyway.
That's about all I have to report. How are things with everyone else?
It really sounds like you are in a good state of mind. I've been there before when I had more tolerence for the lack of sex. I applaud your efforts and can only hold out hope for me to return to that state of mind soon.
Right now things remain the same and my anger hasn't gone away. It is very clear to her that I'm not talking about something. I'm just not ready for this conversation again. My wife has a way of making me feel almost solely responsible and I come away feeling like I have more work to do on myself than we have as a couple.
I'm in such a bad state that I'm contimplating a having a PA. I don't know what else to do.....
Thanks for sharing your encouraging journey. Much continued success to you.
Thanks w8ting. Believe me, I know what you're going through right now as I've been there many times before. I'm not sure why I'm more upbeat at the moment - it's definitely not as though my sex drive suddenly tapered off. I just hope that I can remain in this state of mind because I really think that the longer I can keep my anger, frustration, depression, etc. at bay, the better chance I have of things improving.
Maybe some of the low drive spouses on here can help me out with something. Although I'm doing pretty well at the moment, I've got to admit that I'm curious about what's going through my wife's mind right now. I realize that none of you can tell me that, but maybe someone can offer some insight. Here's the situation as I see it. My wife and I have gotten along wonderfully for two and a half weeks now. Actually, we've always gotten along well - it's just been two and a half weeks since we last had the sex argument. She knows how badly I want her to start making an effort to restore the intimacy in our relationship. I've let her know that I can wait until she's comfortable having sex, but in the meantime it would help me so much if she would just make an effort to touch me occasionally (cuddle in bed, etc.) - but she hasn't made any such effort. I can't understand why, when she acts like the sex argument is the thing that she hates most in the world, she can't put in just a little effort to make it go away. What could be keeping her from trying? Any insight would be appreciated.
Not being one to be stingy with opinions, you knew I'd be jumping in here on this one, hm?
I don't know your wife...don't claim to be in her head...but this is my best guess at a situation that sounds very much like my own....
If it has been 2 1/2 weeks since your last sex argument...and you are keeping yourself busy doing other things (YEAH FOR YOU!!!!!!!!!!!), I'd say right about now your wife is beginning to feel guilty...she's thinking she should have sex with you, but she's pissed that she's feeling guilty. I bet she really appreciated the flowers you sent her the other day, and I bet she was even more surprised when you didn't ask for sex that night.
Right about now, she is waiting for the boom to fall. She's thinking...uh oh...it's been awhile...we haven't argued, he sent me flowers, he's been really sweet...it's coming at any moment now...and more than likely, if you initiated, she'd have sex with you. BUT DON'T DO IT. Please. Pretend like I didn't say that, k?
I'd say she's on the fence right now. DON'T JUMP THE GUN. Remember, you are creating a new dance. It is expected that you would initiate sex now. After all, you've been a good boy, yes? IF YOU INITIATE NOW, SHE WILL THINK THAT THIS WHOLE NEW BEHAVIOR THING YOU'VE GOT GOING IS JUST A NEW PLOY.
But you are a new person now. Your mind set has changed, your motives have changed, your whole reason for being has changed. You are now in this game to make you happy for your own reasons. You know if you do this now, it is just for immediate gratification, not for long term solutions.
Keep going. I know, at least in the back of her mind, she is wondering what the hell is up. I'll bet the farm she has noticed. She may have even said something to you already, if not directly, then indirectly, wondering about you and this, this, new leaf thing you've go going on. Hm?
Keep going. If she doesn't initiate sex on her own, I bet she will at least bring up a 'relationship' type conversation sometime soon.
At which point you can be perfectly honest with her about what you are doing for yourself and why (You are concentrating on making yourself happy and balancing your needs... period. No need to elaborate. Leave her completely out of the conversation). Move on.
Speak honestly and from the heart. This isn't a game. But when this topic does comes up (and I bet it will be soon), talk about what you have been doing for you. You love her, yes, you need her, yes, but you no longer depend on her for your happiness. Kiss her on the cheek, squeeze her hand, smile at her, and head on out the door to go hit your golf balls.
Take care to, uh, relieve pressure so that if the situation does present itself, you aren't so built up with pressure that you, uhm, get ahead of yourself.
And for God's sake let me know if I've come close to predicting this one, would you?
P.S. Let me know not because I need to be "right" but because if I'm close, I'd say our situations are eerily similar.
And... just personally speaking...the flowers thing would've melted me...and if my H didn't initiate sex after sending that day...or within a day or two at least...I'd be coming unglued inside right about now. But that's just me.
You are again my hero! Actually, you haven't been proven right yet, but you basically told me exactly what I thought might be going through her head although I couldn't have described it that well. I will definitely take your advice on this one - what you said just makes too much sense!
The flowers were beautiful by the way - she brought them home today. I'd already seen them as I picked them out, and I wrote the card myself while at the flower shop. I felt like I'd done well not to initiate sex or act like I was expecting something since sending them, but it's so reassuring to hear you say that. I've remained really upbeat lately around my wife, and I can suddenly hit golf balls pretty well too (just got back from the range a few minutes ago). And believe me, I've been "relieving pressure" every chance I get.
Corri, thank you so much. I really hope that you're right about this, and I honestly think that you can't be off by much, if at all. I'll keep you posted.
Okay, now I need some insight. I feel like I "screwed up again."
Last night my H wanted to have sex. I wasn't there. I couldn't get there, mentally or physically. And I know he felt hurt, frustrated, etc.
I HATE hurting him. But I just didn't want to have sex. We didn't argue, but we were both angry when we went to sleep. This is not a good thing.
What do you think I could have done differently in this situation for him? I would have done a BJ, but at that point he'd say to me, "no, you're just doing it because you don't want to have sex."
Well, yes, that's correct. I'm not doing BJs FOR ME....
What's going on here that I'm missing?
When you and your wife get to this point...you know it isn't going to happen, and you either roll over pissed or you have the argument....what do you wish she would do differently at that point instead of what she normally does?
When we get to this point, I feel like I'm the one completely responsible (which I think sucks...but it doesn't mean it isn't true). And because I feel like I'm the one responsible for either having 'good' sex or sparking the Anger Train, I feel completely manipulated and resentful.
I think I feel like this because at the crucial moment it seems that there are only two unsavory options for me. And I'm sorry, I just don't buy that.
There has to be other ways of looking at this, there has to be more options. Got any suggestions?
Before I launch into my problems I wanted to acknowledge your last post. I’ve had a couple instances where my wife didn’t want to have sex but (feeling guilty, no doubt) offered to give me a HJ (no BJ offers around here!). I felt a bit of disappointment knowing that she was jsut doing it to appease the beast but then excitement to get anything. I wish I had the strength to turn her down, saying I’d wait until she was ready to give herself fully to me. Of course, I could never turn her down, I’m too hungry. If she offered a BJ....I would be so overjoyed I would probably cry. Anything is sex. HJ, BJ, whatever. I don’t care what Clinton’s definition is. It may not be intercourse (by far the most profound expression of love and intimacy) but I, personally, would be thankful for anything. If I never got anything but HJ’s and even BJ’s I would, after a while, get hungry for more variety and profoundity.
What I would suggest in that moment that you turned him down is to conjure up the sweetest voice you can muster saying that you just couldn’t make it very good tonight but offer a HJ or BJ immediately or the full package tomorrow night. The thing is you have to make good on your offer the next day or he will lose faith. It is powerfully devastating to be rejected so you have to make the let down as soft as possible. At least if you have a day to psyche yourself up for sex maybe it will be easier. I’m not sure how women work with this, it would not work with my wife but then you are a lot more open and willing to put effort into your relationship. If my wife took this approach to my advances I would be happily waiting for the next day. In fact, I would be probably whistling and walking on air. Remember how excited he got when you emailed him the other day with a BJ offer. Your situation doesn’t sound that tough. Just appologize for not being able to be as accessible and try to enjoy your man’s virility. The fact that you are even interested in having a better relationship with him is a huge plus. You’re already 3/4 of the way there.
I think you are right on with your advice to Sooner. The key is his being strong enough in his weakest moment to keep his mouth shut and hands in his pockets, which, from my experience is painfully hard to do. I bet Sooner would agree. If he has found some balance outside of the relationship he is doing very well. Getting away from the object of desire in that moment is the safest way to hold on.
I just got back yesterday from a week long business trip and was doing quite well emotionally, even though it was exhausting. I had a lot of time to think and talk about the relationship issues with a close friend (in a functioning relationship with his wife). As soon as I got home a severe depression hit me, a deep sadness. I so needed to be kissed and held and made love to, not just a peck and hug but really welcomed with passion. Not totally unreasonable expectation after being gone for over a week. When I got home the hug and peck were there (which I am actually grateful for) but I did not press for sex and she did not initiate anything. Usually this just makes me irritated, frustrated and lightly bummed out. For some reason my emotions are on the floor right now and the aching is so strong I can’t bear it. I feel so down I’ve decided to go the doctor for antidepressants. I can’t hardly work, I’m tired, headaches, lightheaded, listless, chest pain, questioning reality, insomnia, nightmares, unable to focus on tasks, unmotivated to do anything. I’m having a lot of problems at work right now that are unrelated to my relationship troubles (other than my inability to cope with everything) that are compounding my crisis panic mode. I don’t want this desire for intimacy to dominate my life but I can’t help it; I’ve always been this way.
I did tell her that I was feeling down, then she said she was too so I’d have to deal with it myself. That did not help. I just need to have my batteries recharged and the only person who can do it for me refuses. I know I am a needy person and I put too much emphasis on the importance of a relationship. I am not happy without her. My many hobbies have no attraction for me right now. I have no energy to put into them and they bring little joy. What can I do? I’m even forbidden from discussing this frustration with her. I think this is just wrong, plain and simple. The last time I brought anything up she was ready to leave me so I quickly backed up and smoothed it out. I feel like it was wrong for me to do that but I can’t bear the idea of not being with her. I’m not sure I can survive being alone with her either.
No doubt that my being down is a turn off for her, but then again, everything I do is a turn off for her. What is strange is that she professes to be happy with me and we get along quite well as long as I don’t show my horniness or look at her with “those eyes”. How many women would die to have their husbands look at them lustfully? Well, at least there are a few like Johanna out there.
I’ve tried everything I can think of to become more attractive, attentive and caring. She appreciates and enjoys all of that but it is not enough for her to love me like a husband instead of a cousin or housemate. She doesn’t realize what a wonderful relationship we are missing out on. I am capable of giving so much, just not being allowed to express it.
My soul’s joie de vivre is slowly being extinguished, I must find a way to survive this before too many years are wasted and my life is shortened by depression. I feel like my whole life is so far out of balance that I’m hanging on the lower end of the scale above the abyss.
You've got a lot of things going on right now that have nothing to do with you being a 'needy' person. You are looking at life with the panoramic lense on the camera, and you are not liking what you see, my friend.
I see two significant things going on with you right now. You are overwhelmed by work and home life, and you are feeling helpless. A dangerous combo.
Time to switch lenses and put on the zoom lense. Focus on a tree right now, rather than the forest. That is in part what Sooner is doing. He is focusing on the things, little by little, that are well within his control. He is finding his own victories. As these small victories build, he will begin to feel more in control of his own destiny. He will little by little understand that he is in control of his own happiness. He is out there practicing it right now. This is hard stuff. Remember the old chineese proverb: The journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step (or something close to that). Yes, he may be at the beginning of the journey, but hey, he's not standing still! He'll hit hills, he'll hit valleys, and everything in between, but he isn't standing still looking at the same scene day after day. This guy is moving!!
Anyway, my point here is, he has an action plan. He is acting. Acting, doing, being, striving, trying, then trying some more...my goodness, man, get up!! Move! Even if it isn't all that 'fun.' GET UP AND MOVE!!
Focus, AM. I don't have any doubt that you are depressed. At least you have aknowledged it. Now that you know you are, you are going to have to force yourself to get up and get moving. One of the best things you can do for yourself is start exercising. Run. Swim. Lift weights. Roller Blade...whatever. Exhaust yourself physcially. The endorphine release is its own anti-depresant.
Go to the video store and rent funny movies, and watch them each night before you go to bed. Bill Cosby and Robin Williams are my favorites. Laughter also releases endorphines. This is what you can focus on immediately. Small, easy little things. LAUGH.
I know you don't feel like it. Do it anyway. Make yourself. You have to, 'cuz I don't know you, and I don't live anywhere near you to drop kick you in the ass. So in the absence of me planting my foot in the nether regions of your buttocks, you will have to ACT in my stead.
Now, go out tomorrow to the bookstore and buy this book: The Power of Your Subconscious Mind, by Joseph Murphy. Read it. Cover to cover. There will be a quiz. I'm going on vacation next week, so I'm going to be asking questions when I get back. You have one week to get it finished.
This is yet another thing you can DO. Read it at night time until you fall asleep in your chair -- after you watch the funny movies. This if nothing else will keep you from fighting with your wife.
You are focusing on you, now. Your entire being, your entire purpose in life is to get you back into anti-depressant mode. When you've reached that point, which of course you will, I have absolutely NO doubt about it, you will then begin to take tiny little steps each day to find out how you are in control of your own happiness and your own destiny.
Each day when the dark thoughts begin to roll in (they will do this, so be prepared...it's comepletely normal), you will stop your thoughts immediately, and turn them into positive thoughts. (Positive thoughts, not sexual fantasies And you will get busy doing something so that they can't rush back in. Stop living life on auto-pilot. Engage your mind and your heart each day in life. Process what is coming in at you...you will be surprised at how much you've been missing.
Go see your doctor. You must have contact with someone who is in your corner. He may refer you to a counselor, and if he does, I'd highly recommend going. Because, again, it is something you can DO. For you. No one else.
This is YOUR life. You love your wife and you want to stay married. GOOD. That's a positive. Now, within that one boundary, you have limitless potential to improve YOUR life.
Your action plan beginning tomorrow:
Exercise for 1/2 hour, and you must sweat.
Rent two funny videos, one for tomorrow night, one for the next night. I'd recommend a video of a stand-up comedy act. No risk of sex scenes to distract you.
Buy the book, The Power of Your Subconscious Mind, by Joseph Murphy. Start reading the book.
Make an appointment to see your doctor.
Post progress reports here nightly so I can catch up when I get back from vacation. Don't want to hear about your wife (not that I'm not interested, but we're not talking about her right now, we're talking about YOU). I want to hear about your small victories each day. NO MAKING STUFF UP. You're on the honor system, k?
Get where I'm going with this? And if in the midst of reading all this you've thought, "Man, Corri, I don't want to hear this happy horseshit stuff, make lemonade when life hands you lemons' crap..." Well...you have your first opportunity to convert a negative thought to a positive one.
Why are you still here reading? You've got work to do. Let's go. Chop, chop. You're in training now. Sex must take a back seat. No distractions. You've got WORK to do fella....and I promise you this will be the toughest thing you've ever done in your life. And all of us here get to do it with you. So let's go. Move. I'm going to pack now, and give my H a BJ tonight because you took the time to help focus me again...thank you. We had a nice conversation today to clear the air.
Look forward to seeing all those posts when I get back. I will be checking in tomorrow before I go for one last pep talk.
Uhm. Okay, like, you're still here reading...have you NOT been paying attention!? GO! BE! ACT! DO!
So in the absence of me planting my foot in the nether regions of your buttocks, you will have to ACT in my stead.