Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums THE SEX-STARVED MARRIAGE Don't bother turning the crank, the monkey is dead

Hi, Cathy.

I appreciate your comments, especially on hope.

I do have some hope left, but it is toward intervention by higher powers. I have tried phoning in wake-up calls, and it just didn't work.

She is noticing that something is wrong, but I haven't been angry. I have done my best to be kind and considerate. I don't hate her, I love her, but I am out of ideas.

It seems terribly sad to get this far and still miss the mark. All I still want, and you can trace it back to my original postings in "Monkey on a string", is simply to be wanted.

"We can do it on your initiative, but it has to be done a certain way. This is to make you feel loved"
This is an over-simplification, but I swear that is what my experience has been so far.

Hint, I would like a sex PARTNER, not a sex object. I, like others here, want a 'WE' experience, not a singular one. Hell, even mutual masturbation is more 'WE' than 'I'.

What the hell happened to "the two shall become of one flesh"?

Before I was married, I had lots of sex that was 'we' oriented. It was a free and open exchange of pleasure. Now that I have done the "right thing" all these years and contained my sex to marriage, it is sometimes ok, occasionally good, almost never great. I can count on one hand, the number of times I have had 'WE' sex in the past 27 years.

Shouldn't it be just the opposite? Shouldn't I be able to count the 'non-we' sex on one hand? Why is this a difficult concept? All questions I have no answer for.

Sorry for the rant, but thanks for listening.

I appreciate your insight from a failed relationship point of view. I hope I can prevent that from happening with mine.

-NOPkins-

NOP,

I feel for you brother. Some of what you said really struck a chord with me. My wife lost all interest in sex within 2 weeks of being married and I have spent the last year in therapy with her about her loss of desire. You have put many hard years into your marriage and it sounds as though it has not paid off at all. I don't blame you for wanting out. I hate to see marriages fail but it sounds like your wife actually WANTS out, she just might not know it. Do her (and more importantly yourself) a favor. Realize that it is 4th down and you got about 60 yards to go. TIME TO PUNT!!! Did you say that you were in your 40s?? That is still quite young.

Your post, as sad as it is, has inspired me (sort of). I have decided that I will ONLY spend one more year working on my marriage. Most people only change when they get sick enough of themselves to want to. My wife knows the problems in our marriage. I know now that I can't make her change, and I'll be damnned if I spend 20 more years waiting for something to get better.

As far as age goes, my father is 56 and he is a total mess (alcoholic, completely irresponsible, cigar smoker, drunk caller, etc) and he gets a lot of action. If I were you I would not worry about what kind of relationship you can get at your age. Just get out there (and maybe lower your standards a bit). I think you should find a couple of purely sexual relationships for a while. Don't put up with any crap in them. It is possible that one of them could develop into something more but who needs to worry about that. "Just do it!" for a few years and then think about settling down. You've still got lead in your pencil...now get out there and write!!! Oh yeah, always use protection.

Hey. Meat.

I understand what you are saying, but I don't want to contribute to anyone's marriage going south. That is why I put the warning at the beginning of my first post on this thread.

I also almost wish that I could just turn everything off so to speak, and head out for greener fields. Alas, there is a lot of history here, and a lot of love. At this point, anything I do outside of status quo, will result in pain for both parties.

I do wish that there was some mandatory pre-marital education. At least cover basic issues like sex and money. You might be suprised at how many people can't balance a checkbook.

I do appreciate the input and the encouragement. I have no idea how all this will turn out. Last night, I had to duck and run a bit. That was something totally new for me. She was making up (feeling guilty) for the previous night where she spent the night on the couch (for the 10,000+ time), by being available to me. I think I could have performed, but my heart certainly wasn't in it. Neither was hers...

I don't want her living in guilt anymore. I am sick of the guilt/repent cycle when there is no real change. I will be damned if I will be party to it anymore for that matter.

So, back to the same issues, while stuck in my very own loop.

Here's to hoping your wife will wake up soon,
-NOPkins-

NOP,

There is no way you could be contributing to my marriage going south, even if you wanted to. The wife is taking care of that all by herself, and if you had a need to help in some way it would be of no importance to her.



It is ok to think about all the history you have. In fact, if you think about it in a healthy way, it will probably make you a better person. However, which history is more important???....the history that you can look back on, or the history that you have not made yet??


That pre-marital education is a great idea. Unfortunately, in my situation is would not have mattered. Before we got married, I discussed with my wife, repeatedly, how important sex and physical intimacy were to me. How important honesty and respect were. She agreed, and said that she felt the same way. As it turns out, she didn't.

I understand your guilt. Nothing is more empty than knowing that everytime you make love to your wife, it is only you who actually WANTS to be there.

Replying to myself with some additional thoughts.

In earlier posts, I thought that our problem was low sexual drive. Now I am not so certain.

Let's look at the facts.

I like to be with my wife. I find myself wandering room to room just to talk to her. Rarely does she follow me about.

If she buys me gifts, I try to use them and be appreciative of them.

How is it that a low drive makes you not want to be with someone? I like to spend time with my daughter, and I am certainly NOT attracted to her. I like to be around people I like. I don't like to be around people I don't like. How is it that doesn't extend into marriage?

I suspect that it does. I suspect that if she really liked me, she would want to be with me. Whether it is in the shower, the kitchen or the bedroom, low drive or not. I understand the need for personal space, etc, but I am talking about visible signs of simply liking someone.

I don't believe in mysteries, only in incomplete information. I fully intend to understand my situation to the point of being able to clearly and succinctly define it.

You can call someone depressed, introverted, extroverted, single minded, ad nauseam..., BUT, even most dogs will follow you around if they like you.

Am I missing something obvious here?

-NOPkins-

Hi, Meat.

I am glad I am not contributing to the deliquency of a marriage :-)

As for the history, I am more concerned with the logistics of divorce right now. Business, property, some money, various retirement accounts, pets. Even in the land of uncontested divorce, it will be a nasty mess. I can't imagine what the hell having a judge involved would add to the mix.

I learned a long time ago (and I actually take my own advice on occasion), that feelings are at best, untrustworthy. Right now, I feel less and less anger, less disappointment, less hurt, but I am not numb yet. What I am feeling is the pressure just to be removed from the situation. Business won't allow me to pack it up and leave, but I am ready to.

So I am stuck having to deal with all of it directly. Tonight was yet another proof of the unlikeliness of any change occuring. I got turned down, and I didn't even ask for it :-) She asked me for a rain check, I said "sure, no problem". Then she asked me if I was going to be mad at her. I told her that I would not, and that I haven't been for quite a while. She countered with "it's only tuesday", which sailed right over my head, so I responded, "so, this means what" only to be told that it was early in the week yet regarding my ability to not be angry about our sex life. I walked away.

My point in the last overly dramatic paragraph, is simply that she knows the effect her 'failed efforts(?)' have had on me. That means that it knows what it is doing. That confirms my previously alluded to, 'chump' condition (me). So, I won't ask again, and I won't not ask again :-) Neither will I 'cut her off' in a purposeless effort to show her I don't need it. The fact is, I don't need 'it', from her. I never really did. What I needed, was to be needed, not a part of some guilt quotient, or worse, part of some manipulation.

Sorry for my passion showing through a bit. I will tell you this, my future interaction with her just became calculated.

What a mess. I married her to be her partner, and she mine. We did well on most fronts. I will likely never figure out what went wrong in the sex department. Like I said, she can't, or won't, fix her side of the equation. That leaves me to make tough decisions. I have made plenty of those in my life.

Tonight really set me off, but I will get over it. All I can say is, don't piss on my leg when your pants are on fire. A little common sense could go a long way in our relationship. It sounds like most of the posters here could use a quick visit from Confucius at their homes as well...

I do think I will tell her precisely why I will NOT be getting angry. Maybe it will help her in future relationships.

Thanks for letting me rant.

-NOPkins-

Quote:

---

I do think I will tell her precisely why I will NOT be getting angry.

---

but you are angry...or at least some form of it.

I understand how you feel...to the umpth power..try being a woman, an attractive sexy young woman at that and being turned down, being told on sunday night...tommorow night...I'm too tired tonight..only to have sun turn to wed with still no return...and to note that the last few interactions were by your own initiation!

I don't know what we are to do about the lack of initiative from our spouses...it is not a new issue for me to deal with...I've been dealing with it for the better part of 12 years and have only been married for just under 6. I'm 30 now...it was not easy to have it blatantly obvious to you that others wanted you physically to come home to or go visit (before m) the one who is "supposed" to want you and be denied by them.

I've tried to focus on what I do get from h...I try to keep my attention deverted to the other possitives things he brings to the r, I try to appreciate the occassional stray hug or peck on the forehead...but I too want some passion.

it's all very frustrating but I wonder is it worth ending a m over?

LL

While browsing these messages, I've noticed a bit of a pattern. The low-desire spouse usually does not change, at least not much, until confronted with a major life-changing decision. One woman recently joined who is expressing great joy at solving her own lack of desire, but only after confronted with divorce. In Michele's book, she quotes another woman who suddenly found her libido, but alas it was after her divorce was finalized.

So I guess it goes like this: "My dearest Jane, I love you and always will. Marriage includes among many things the special bonding that joyful sex brings. But passionate sexual desire is missing from our marriage. Unless we find a way to bring that into our marriage, I think our marriage must end. This isn't meant as threat, but simply to tell you that I am missing something that is core to my own being. I have done my part to try to solve this issue, now it is your turn to work on the solution or simply give up our marriage."

In reality, I think most low-desire spouses would simply issue some insult about low-brow animal needs controlling our intellect, and call the bluff. Maybe the "180" behavior is to quit trying to save the marriage.

Hey, LL.

You are right about the anger, but I am angry at myself, mostly for being a chump.

I have tried to define what it is I am looking for so I dont' have to use terms or phrases like 'want me' or 'initiate'.

What I am looking for is what I thought I was marrying.

Example:
If I had married a rich woman, while expecting to have a rich woman in my marriage, and she eventually lost all her money due to circumstances beyond her control, then I would feel compelled to stick with her. On the other hand, if she gambled it all away, and no amount of education, pleading, threats or coercion could convince her to stop, then I wouldn't feel so compelled to stay married to her.

I can't see that sexual dysfunction, in whatever form it is presenting itself, when clearly defined and illuminated, continues unabated for an extended period to be any different than the aformentioned example. That is with the clear exception of a physical defect.

We have all heard it; "He/She is not the person I married". It sounds like some alien has come to live in a spouses body.

What I maintain in these posts, is that she has known the issues for DECADES, and has persisted in not addressing them to the point of near divorce previously over the same. Even the recent change, isn't really a change at all, only another diversion. So, I am convinced that like a gambler, she won't deal with it. Like some gamblers, she is unable or unwilling to deal with the addiction. Since I had a reasonable expectation of a reasonable sex life after the onset of marriage, why I should I be treating this as a life long illness as opposed to a choice which is what it really is?

No doubt, she would decry illness, as any drugger would yell addiction. Problem with that (and I am an x-smoker, and an x-drug addict) is the fact that it is a choice.

LL, I understand having to turn down 'offers' from others attracted to me. That has been rather common in my life as well. I, like you, only ever wanted the person I married. Again, a choice, not an obsession.

The unfortunate side effect of learning the truth about something or someone, is having to learn a new way to deal with it. How the hell do you deal with realizing, after the fact, that you married an alien? How do you deal with it 27 years later than you should have? I am embarrassed that I missed this long ago. About the only comfort I can come up with is realizing that I am "not the only sum'bitch that ever got woke up from a dream".

She has already picked up on a change in our relationship, and is, I suspect, pondering whether or not we will be having the same old argument again. This time, there really isn't anything to argue about, unless it is regarding disbursement of common property.

Old promises are the most difficult to believe anew.

Take care, LL.
-NOPkins-

Hey, WNC.

I don't really know about the 180's, but I suspect you are correct. This first time this issue really came to a head (years ago), she was convinced I was going to divorce her, and completely fell apart. I felt so sorry for her in that much emotional pain that I never said much about the sexual issues, and even that was after I had comforted her and assured her I was not leaving.

I may be confused as hell, but of this I am convinced - there is some underlying *simple* cause to these problems. Likely a choice made in anger at some point along the way. I don't think that people (myself included) realize how a small bad choice can grow into a monster bad decision years later.

Hey, smoking that first cigarette wasn't such a big deal. Neither was the first time I snorted heroin...

-NOPkins-