If there is somthing that I haven't done for the woman, then God hasn't invented the thing. I even took care of what she said had bothered her over the years. I felt bad about it too.
At this point, there is nothing *I* can do to change her problem. I can decide to live with it and take life and relationship at face value, or I can can try to start over with someone a bit more disposed toward being with me. She can not be what she isn't and I can't force her. The major mistake in our relationship occured 27 years ago.
Having said that, if anyone can show me that the source of the problem is something I am doing, then I would be extremely grateful. I can change me. I won't change the unwillingness to continue status quo, however. That part is over.
I do appreciate the reply. Please don't let my situation hurt yours. If anything, let it drive you toward a solution.
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
Quote: Having said that, if anyone can show me that the source of the problem is something I am doing, then I would be extremely grateful. I can change me. I won't change the unwillingness to continue status quo, however. That part is over.
in suggesting you take a look at the five love languages you would be the one doing something...you would be the one realizing exactly what her love languages are and saving yourself the time and aggrivation of doing things that aren't feeding into her primary love languages, thus lessening the resentment you feel about doing it all for her and not getting yours in the end.
doing this still doesn't make it all go away..
also learnig to understand and accept in what language w does speak...
I often thought (ok and still do sometimes) that because h wasn't physical with me as often as I'd like or would reject my physical advances that gee he must not love me...but if I step back and look at the different love languages I realize that he does infact love me very much he just shows it differently than I do...knowing what his love languages are enables me to feel loved when he speaks his language and it does take some of the pressure off of my wanting or needing sex as a means of reinforcement of his love for me...then it is simply my issue and I must address it.
Quote: I think that confronting her at this point would simply prolong the inevitable, while seriously adding to her stress load.
If you are sure that divorce is inevitable, and it seems you are as you prepare yourself emotionally and logisitically for it, then you need to tell her. If you announce it to her after you have gotten all your ducks in a row, I doubt she is going to see your not informing her earlier as a benevolent act to save her stress.
I'm unclear as to what you actually told her regarding the sex issue the first time you mentioned divorce in your marriage. I don't doubt you've communicated your high level of desire. Have you communicated the high level of importance sex has for you with respect to the continuation of the relationship? They are two different things, although probably positively correlated. Someone can have a high desire for sex but not put it on the list of deal-breakers for a relationship. Does your w really know it is a deal-breaker for you?
Frankly, I don't know that she would still be able to change the way you need her to. Neither increased frequency, willingness to try, or as a gift (hopefully graciously given) is what you're looking for. You need a fundamental change in how she experiences her love for you. You're right, that is quite a tall order of change and it may not be within her power. Choices can be made to increase frequency, etc. You can make a choice to love someone. I'm not as confident in the idea that you can choose to experience that love as/with sexual desire. It would be similar to asking you NOT to experience sexual desire as part of your love for your w.
If that is what you need from her, you need to be very clear. Otherwise she will be trying to make changes in ways that won't make any difference. But you'll never really know if she can change that way unless you make it clear what it is you really need.
I'm not trying to talk you out of your plans, I just see these possible gaps in the communication.
30 years or so ago, I dated a girl. She was very bright, very pretty and very sexy. She had an excellent personality. We messed around a bit, but ended up dating other people.
Some 30 years later, she is still pretty, sexy and very bright. We still like each other, but I don't think either of us would ever read books and get counseling to try and make a realtionship together. We just don't feel that way.
Now what if, two people got together when only one of them did feel all goose-pimply and awe struck, but the other didn't. What the other did, was to like this person, alot. She thought that he was was very bright and handsome and witty and had an excellent chance at being a good provider. She thought she could learn to be really physically attracted to this person, albeit with some time and effort.
Having tried for a couple of years to work up sexual feelings toward this man, the girl gave up on ever being goose-pimply over this fellow. Yes, he provided well, he was a good father. She even loved him. When he was especially kind or good at something, it would touch her heart and draw her feelings close to him, but it never made her really want to make love to him. She did occasionally make love to him, but it was because she thought it was the right thing to do. After all, it was obvious that he cared greatly for her.
Eventually, he became less and less satisfied with the love she returned. He tried everything to win her affection. He treated her most affectionately, gave her gifts, getaways, long drives and walks. He took her to beautiful places and spoke beautiful words to her. He continued this for many years. She appreciated his kindness and she felt very loved, but she could never return the love in a manner that she knew he needed. She just didn't feel that way about him.
So, I can do many things to make me feel better about my situation. I can do virtually nothing to change the way she feels.
I have read of arranged marriages where both parties eventually fell in love, but that is an exception, rather than a rule.
I had previously embraced a lie and lived in an imaginary relationship that I thought had equal depth on both sides. It never did. It never was what I thought it was. She has even tried to tell me for 25+ years.
My situation will *not* be true of most of the posters problems at issue here. Most of you probably got married after much consideration and discussion and things changed along the way.
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
Quote:
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If you are sure that divorce is inevitable, and it seems you are as you prepare yourself emotionally and logisitically for it, then you need to tell her. If you announce it to her after you have gotten all your ducks in a row, I doubt she is going to see your not informing her earlier as a benevolent act to save her stress.
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I agree to a point. If I am considering divorce, then my actions are ultimately directed toward my needs more than hers. On the other hand, I find no compelling reason at this time, to tell her anything about my intentions since they are just that, intentions. Intentions are subject to change and revision. I am sure that divorce is inevitable, I am also sure that situations change and I am hoping (probably a waste of time) that something will change.
I have communicated with her on many occasions, the sheer frustration I was experiencing. I was always told the same thing "I will never be the sexy girl you need" (or some iteration of the same). *I* was the one not listening. She knew that the sex issue was a deal breaker the time she fell apart. I am sure she didn't want to lose the relationship.
Quote:
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Frankly, I don't know that she would still be able to change the way you need her to. Neither increased frequency, willingness to try, or as a gift (hopefully graciously given) is what you're looking for. You need a fundamental change in how she experiences her love for you. You're right, that is quite a tall order of change and it may not be within her power. Choices can be made to increase frequency, etc. You can make a choice to love someone. I'm not as confident in the idea that you can choose to experience that love as/with sexual desire. It would be similar to asking you NOT to experience sexual desire as part of your love for your w.
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I completely agree with you. In fact, the choice of her increasing frequency was as a result of several years of escalating issue with the status quo. The book was the catylist. She already knew just how serious I am about the whole deal.
To remind you all, it was a recent encounter, where she once again, uttered the "I'm not it" phrase. This time, and for the first time, I understood and accepted what she was saying. I am sure she did it out of guilt. The same reason she was probably in the bed with me. Thanks, but I don't need that kind of attention. I can find release any Friday night with a visit to a bar via a "zipless"(Erica Jones) encounter.
I have made clear to her, my needs, for many moons. In the spirit of so-called fairness, I may do so again, and include recently discovered truth. I am concerned that would cause her to walk away, now, rather than after some more appropriate closure.
Think about it. What can she say? Can she claim to have lied all those times she told me "I'm not the one"? Can she claim that she didn't mean it the way it sounded, or that she really did want me but couldn't express it. Would you believe some sudden last second change of heart? What could she possibly come up with to prove I am NOT a chump?
Even Perry Mason would have a hard time with that one.
So. Things are what they are. Stuff happens, sometimes to really nice people. In immediate retrospect, I can remain angry and hurt, or maybe somewhere down the road, I can look back and make poetic claim to having loved and lost.
Besides, what difference will it make in 100 years :-)
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
Quote: Eventually, he became less and less satisfied with the love she returned. He tried everything to win her affection. He treated her most affectionately, gave her gifts, getaways, long drives and walks. He took her to beautiful places and spoke beautiful words to her. He continued this for many years. She appreciated his kindness and she felt very loved, but she could never return the love in a manner that she knew he needed. She just didn't feel that way about him.
and that is precisley what reading the five love languages will help you and her to understand. sure you wouldn't have read a book with the prior gf but then you wouldn't have married her would you.
perhaps if you stop addressing the issue as a "sex" problem and instead address it as a love language issue it may be recieved better.
I understand how you feel as I have struggled with the issue myself. I have tried to fight the battle, explain myself, gotten mad, gotten sad and a whole bunch of other crappy stuff. h never understood and always gave me the "that's just the way I am" or the "that's just not the way I am" speach...the old "I can't be that person" " you want me to change" yada yada yada...I showed h ssm...he was not interested...I tried to talk to him about it as a sexual issue and it was simply pushed asside...it was not until I started to speak of the five love languages with h that he understood...what makes him feel loved is different than what makes me feel loved....recognizing the difference in our natural languages and learning to speak the others is helping me to deal with it and it may help you and your w.
Quote from Poe: -------- Gives more info on why she did not sleep with you every night. --------
Poe, I assume that she did it to avoid intimacy
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
LL, Cathy, AM, LH, et al, I very much appreciate all the comments and suggestions.
Here is what I have decided.
Right now, I am totally burned out on the whole issue. I am not going to mention divorce, or make any immediate plans to seek divorce. I am, unfortunately, totally dead passion wise. I no longer find her even remotely attractive. I don't know if that will pass, and I don't really care, although I am a bit suprised at the change.
I am being nice to her, and looking at her eyes when I talk to her most of the time. We are even cuddling a little bit when we sleep together. I will continue to be nice, and not angry. That is about all I can muster for the immediate future. Mostly, I will just wait it out and see what happens.
So, thanks again to everyone.
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
Well, Nopkins, when you're feeling a little less burned out about the whole thing, I'd suggest sharing your new interpretation of "I'm not it/I'll never be sexy" with your w. You had one interpretation of that whole set of phrases originally. Now you have a new one. It may not be any more correct than the first one. Only your w can tell you. She can't tell you unless you share with her.
