Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums THE SEX-STARVED MARRIAGE Don't bother turning the crank, the monkey is dead

At least the monkey might as well be dead.

WARNING - DO NOT READ THIS IF YOU ARE STILL WORKING ON YOUR MARRIAGE.
I am serious, go read something else.

So much for all the good, sound advice from me. Now that having sex is presummably not an issue, other facets of the relationship are presenting a problem.

She has been telling me for 2+ decades - "I will never be sexy". Like a twerp, I thought that if I could ever get her to have frequent sex again, I could interest her in having fun with it.

AAAANNNNNNKKKKKK! WRONG, not going to happen. I should have known back in the 70's when the fake orgasms became an issue. Or when she was living with me before marriage, only to discover that she was already married. Had to clean that mess up before I married her. Of course, I wasn't exactly a paragon of virtue either (see previous posts).

Now, I will admit that youth does equal stupid, contrary to what young people would like to believe. Sorry, that's just the way it is. So, I can write off a lot of mistakes to youthful enthusiasm.

Why has old news become an issue? I used to see her through eyes of love. In all honesty, I saw the same beautiful 21 year old girl I married, every time I looked at her. I don't know what has triggered reality to set in. Maybe it is the repeated broken promises. I used to think "she means well", "she just forgot" until I realized I was making 100's of excuses for her behavior being exactly what she had warned me repeatedly about. "She will never be sexy".

What a PUTZ I am!!

I have bought her at least a $1,000 worth of nice underware, nightgowns and sexy frilly stuff, not counting jewelry. "I will model some stuff for you as a Fathers's Day present".
That didn't happen either. I still have to make a big deal out of her sleeping in the same bed with me, even after that became part of the resolution on the sexual issues. It is not my damn job to play cop or keep score, and I am officially out of that business.

So, I have given up again, partly in frustration and anger, but that is subsiding. The bad part is that the 'giving up'hasn't subsided, and won't this time. I had a good think about all this and came to realize that she is right, it isn't going to change for her. I have been a world class chump for 27+ years. I will NEVER (yes, I used the 'N' word) realize what I need sexually from this woman. That was true 27 years ago, it is true today.

So, there are choices to be made. Right now I am a bit numb, but I know where this will end up. Like I have told others, accept and stay or don't and go. Curiosity almost impales me with a desire to find out if there is love out there in a package that better fits me. Logic tells me I am tilting at windmills. Either way, I am a putz for not having dealt with this many years ago. Somtimes patience is a good thing, unless it causes one to forget the limit of ones lifespan. I wonder how a 47 year old male fares out in the single world these days... I suspect it isn't a pretty picture.

For now, I am waiting for the fog to clear and my course to become at least somewhat more clear. There is a possibility that God will intervene and change the way I perceive things, although I doubt it. There is a chance that my wife will suddenly become enamored with me, that is also highly unlikely. Likely, the solution will be at best like a luke warm overture of music that might of been but never was :-)

I doubt I have 27 more years to improve anything, even if I wanted to.

"What if this is as good as it gets?"
Then I will just have to settle and occupy my time with other endeavors. I will never walk as blindly as I have in the past though. The amount of crap I am willing to put up with just moved to a much smaller container.

-NOPkins-

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I wonder how a 47 year old male fares out in the single world these days... I suspect it isn't a pretty picture.

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I think it's a rosier situation than you could ever imagine. This isn't advice, just my read on the "market".

Will should be shot and without benefit of a blind fold. I'm on the market and at your age me and women like me are about all you will find on the market. Not that I'm not quite the catch but I come with some baggage a man your age might not care to be burdened with. Believe me, you are probably better off dealing with your own baggage....baggage you are used to and now how to deal with already.

Let me give you another perspective on your situation. I lived in a marriage like yours. I know the frustrations and the pain of rejection and the idea that the entire world is having sex....everyone but you. I threatened him with divorce after years of being patient, communicating empathetically and just down right nearly loosing my sanity over the mess. I didn't really want a divorce. I wanted my husband to want me. I lay it on the line for him, divorce or help for the problem. He chose divorce, picked up his car keys after the discussion, said he was going for a coke and never came home again.

So, there I was nearly 5 years ago with the opportunity to go out, check out the market and find myself someone to love and someone who would want me. Guess what, I'm still looking and I have a better chance of being struck by lightning than finding what I'm looking for.

Sexual rejection and frustration is painful. More painful than that though is going to bed every night, night after night alone. Dealing with every day life with no one to sound things off of or no one to go to with a problem or no one to pick you up if you stumble over life is about the worst pain there is. My advice, as hard as it is living like you are now, it's way better than what you would find if you went looking for different. JMTCW
Cathy

Thanks for the reply Cathy.

For me, I have slept alone far, far more while married, than I ever did while single.

It took the last 13 years to get her to sleep in the same bed with me more than twice a month. I am not exaggerating.

You are right about the companionship. That would be hard to replace.

I don't plan to do anything yet, but I know that time will take it's toll. I don't see her the same way any more. I think I see her more clearly than I ever have before. The rose colored glasses are shattered now. My largest frustration right now is the wasted years. If I had to walk this way again, I don't know that I would take the same path.

Who knows, maybe there is a way to pick up the pieces, but there is a lot of broken stuff around here. The mess is pretty extensive.

As for sexually frustrated, I'm not really. We were having sex more lately than in the past decade. That has stopped now. Stopped by me. What is really tearing me up is the simple realization that I blew it. I don't understand why I couldn't face simple -obvious- facts, 25 years ago.

As of a couple of days ago, I am done. I don't know how to go back. I can't imagine it the way it 'was', because it never was really the way I imagined it. I have been stuck following a dumb dream - living a lie, with no chance of it ever becoming reality. I did it in the name of love, but ultimately for selfish reasons, no doubt.

The hardcore facts are in. I may still look good, but I am older. Too many years have gone by to effectively start over with someone else. I chased a lie and it caught up with me. If I had gone into this relationship with no expectations, then I wouldn't have a complaint, but that is not the way it was. I am sure I have driven her near mad with my incessant drives. I am sorry for that. I really am.

So, the pressure is off her finally. I am glad of that for her sake. I am, on the other hand, totally lost. I don't think I can handle a relationship with low grade or low frequency sex. I struggled with it for years, and just when I thought I had won, I had really lost it all. I think I will have a very hard time liking myself, realizing what I have put her through. Maybe she had some ulterier motive of her own. Maybe it was genuine love that made her stick it out. Maybe it was a combination of motive, love, obligation and guilt.

I don't know, and in fact, can't know what her reasons are/where. I am angry at both of us for ever letting our relationship get this far out of hand.

What is to come is what I dread. What happens when she realizes that I have given up. She will want to talk about it. That will be a change. It looks like I will be the one avoiding confrontation...

I could simply accept things the way they are. A good orgasm for both of us a few times a week isn't so bad. I could devote more time to family and hobbies. But I have to tell you, that kills my passion. I love sex the same way some people love to socialize. It is an important part of my life, not an aside, or a pressure that just needs to be relieved. I like it. I like to share it like a good sunset. For me, sex is like a crisp autum breeze on a bright clear day. You just have to be there to experience it.

I understand that every encounter can't be awe inspiring, but it can be fun or sensual or loving or whatever. What it can NOT be, is formulaic, and that is exactly what our encounters are. That is what they will always be.

So back to my original assertion - I can either accept and stay, or reject and go.

Tough choice, that one.

-NOPkins-

Nopkins,

So sorry to hear about your situation. I believe that one must struggle and strive to hold a relationship together, but there is a point when too much too long is enough. Life is too short to be unhappy for so many years. I'm not saying to totally give up yet, but it sounds like you've turned a corner. I think you have to quit dribbling and send the ball into her side of the court. She needs to make some effort, make a decision on whether you mean enough to her to make some changes.

I can only imagine how tough it would be for me to lose my relationship with the woman that I have always loved and desired. It would be shattering. But after a time, I would pick up the pieces and dust myself off and head out to build a new life for myself. I would make some drastic changes in my lifestyle, positive changes, nurture myself, rebuild my confidence and remember life is short. 47 is not very old, in fact it is right in the prime of life. Sign up at a gym and work out 3-4 times a week, spend some money on a few new duds (get some ideas from AllSuitedUp's posts). I know a 46 year old nice guy in reasonable shape that hooked up a very sweet and horny 32 yr old. He has grandkids and a son that's her age...they get along just fine.

Nopkins, you obviously are a caring and thoughtful person, otherwise you wouldn't have put so much effort into your marriage for so many years and you wouldn't be here searching for ways to bail out the sinking ship. If you do have to jump ship at some point, be confident that another one will be by soon. There are a lot of women that have been with absolute bastards for years that would love to be with a caring guy.

Put some batteries in your monkey box,

AchingMan

Thanks for the reply, AM. I appreciate it.

I really can't punt this one back to her end of the field. She really doesn't have it in her to play the game. Being forced to play a game that you hate is a terrible thing, and I can't ask her to do any more than she has done.

This problem is mine to deal with. She can't fix it.

I am appreciative of the recent gains in our relationship. I know she perceives all this as a big roller coaster ride. I have to smooth out the ride now for her sake.

To be perfectly honest, I sometimes suspect that she knew exactly what she was doing in the early days, but I also know that life with me been been anything but smooth. I have accomplished much, but it has definitely been an adventure.

I think that it is more likely that I have been blinded by hope. Hope is a good thing, but I should know better than to think that I could 'change' someone else. That has to be the biggest, and most common mistake new couples make. Hope is good and can keep you going when life is really tough. It can also blind a person to impossible or unrealistic goals. Even hope has to be intelligently applied, and used sparingly.

So, I will try to reduce my demands of her to a minimum, and remain loving. I do love her. That much should be obvious. She deserves to be treated well and fairly. A person is only capable of so much, and I have learned, somewhat painfully at times, that we all have limitations. I believe that she is doing the best that she can, and I can ask no more than that. I can, in fact, ask less than that from her. I damn sure don't want to live the rest of my life having to watch every little action and make sure that I do everything 'just right'. I can't hold her to such an impossible standard either.

No, I am stuck trying to figure out what to do. I never settled for less than I 'hoped' for. I lived in my hope that our sex would get better and better. It even improved in frequency, and we gained back a bit of time sleeping together. That was something that had faded away a decade or so ago. So some of my hopes were realized. The problem with having high hopes, is the ultimate realization that they will likely be dashed. You see, all I ever hoped for was what I considered to be 'normal' sex. The problem is what I consider normal and what she considers normal, are widely disparate in scope.

One could argue that I have been settling for less than I wanted all these years, so why not continue. That is NOT a valid point. I obviously haven't settled for anything, rather, I have continued on in hopes of improvement.

When I spoke of dead passion, I meant it. Nothing, and I mean nothing, has ever before killed my sex drive. I find myself passionless right now. The plumbing still works ok, but the idea of continuing on as before doesn't work. Maybe that is how some of the 'low drives' feel around here. I can only guess since my drive isn't gone, but my target and goals are....

"Officer, could you please point me in the direction of marital bliss? I seem to have gone blind looking at the sun."

-NOPkins-

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Will should be shot and without benefit of a blind fold.

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A last cigarette, at least? Plus it could be my first, how cool would that be.

C'mon Cathy. I at least realized that I am TOTALLY unqualified to offer him ANY relationship advice, so I didn't even try.

In that small portion of his statement, I think I heard him saying that no woman would ever be interested in him due to his age. I merely offered my opinion that his perception is not at all accurate.

(Hmmm... maybe your statement "Will should be shot and without benefit of a blind fold." was not referring to my statement in this post but was just your general observation!!!)

Peacefully,
WillD

NOPkins, you articulate your disappointment well. I think we all want to question our motives and the other person's motives and why we held on for so long when we are finally confronted with the knowledge that it isn't going to change in a way that would offer us what we had hoped for. So, emotionally I think you are feeling the right feelings and asking yourself all the right questions.

I have always been the kind of person to "hope against hope." It's the way I survive any hardship in my life. My ex and I slept in the same bed. I'm not sure I could have ever excused someone who refused to at least share my bed for sleeping. I'm not sure which is more painful, someone who won't sleep with you or someone who sleeps with you and turns their back to you nightly. I was like you, I hoped it would get better, hoped he would one day want me, hoped for a sexual connection that would deepen our relationship. I never got it and when it was all over and he was gone I felt the same things you are feeling and questioned myself in the same way.

I was afraid to hope any more and afraid to loose my ability to hope. Not being able to hope for a problem to be solved, or a person to change or that I might continue to have the ability to desire certain things from others or that life would get better when it felt as if it were falling apart meant giving up who I was as a person. The ability to hope was something I was very proud of about myself. It meant I wasn't a quitter, someone who could walk away without trying or someone who could turn a deaf ear to the wants and needs of those who loved me. I knew that I had to find a way to continue to hope, to not loose hope that there was a life for me with someone who shared my desire for "normal" sex.

When my marriage ended I also new that I was going to have to be able to find hope in the fact that I might never marry again or might never find that person who understood my needs and felt the same.

I would think about the problems I had, had in my marriage and all the pain that caused. I thought about what it was I had hoped for in my marriage and how not getting it had caused such pain. I thought about the problems my divorce caused and how the way I hoped for resolution to the problems but no resolution ever came. I realized that all my hopes were being placed on particular events or how those events would be solved. I put hope in my husband, hope in the legal system and sat back and waiting for them to give me what I was hoping for. I was loosing hope and loosing it fast. I was feeling like a fool for continuing to hope when the things I was putting hope in were constantly letting me down.

It dawned on me one day that that is not what hope is about. Our greatest hope in life is for the experience of joy. That experience can be found no matter how someone else reacts to the things we hope for. I found that I wasn't as smart as I thought when it came to predicting what would bring me joy or make me happy. My ability to hope had to stop being attached to the actions of other people. It had to be something that came from within me and something I could attain on my own. When you attach the things you hope for to the actions of another person you are looking for pleasure but fishing for pain. To me, now, never giving up hope means always expecting to experience life at it's fullest. I have hope because I know, without a doubt that I can survive my life when things are at their best and when things are as bad as they can get.

Retaining your ability to hope isn''t about giving up when things didn't work as you had expected or feeling as if things will never work out or feeling that you are too old to find what you need out of life. It's about facing the sorrow and pain of where you are but knowing that you have enough hope in life to endure it. That is what hope is for me these days, knowing that no matter what, my ability to hope for happiness, joy and peace in my life is bigger than any problem I might ever face.

Does giving up something we hold as important as sharing a healthy sexual relationship with the person we love mean not being able to find joy and happiness in that relationship? I don't know. There are times I would sell my soul to have my ex back with me. There are hundreds of things that motivate me in that desire. When I look at it realistically though I know that it would mean more pain and to me it's easier to be alone than to be constantly rejected. I love him but loving him is too painful and I can't have the things I hope for in my life through a relationship with him.

I wish I could offer you comfort. You seem to be such an intelligent man. Oh, how I would have loved for my ex to be able to articulate his feelings the way you do and to have the desire for me the way you do your wife. There are woman who would give anything to have that in their lives. Put your hope and faith in yourself and no matter what you choose as far as your marriage things will turn out.
Cathy~

Will, smoking is NEVER cool, even if your first would be your last. So, it's no blindfold for or cigarette for you.

If NOPkind is under the belief that no woman would want him because of his age then he is mistaken. The search for one with character and the same desires might take some time but he could eventually find one. You can bet he would find one!!

You know my general observations of you as a person so stop playing around. I have made an extensive list of things you need to work on....shame on you for not being hard at work You men leave me perplexed at times....most of the time in fact. We women try and point you in the right direction and what do you do? You ingore us!!
Cathy~

I'm working Cathy! I'm working!

Gee. I hope you at least hire experience marksmen so that I don't needlessly suffer!