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Good point with the respect and guilt thing. How can you love someone you are feeling guilty about ????

It might be once they have fallen out of love that's it. Sort of thought from the begining we wouldn't be ever getting back together but there was a slim chance of beginning all over again if you know what i mean.

What reasons did your w give and what changes has she noticed ?

Must admit when i'm around w i don't feel that confident and i'm a really confident person. I just feels she always has the advantage and i'm a bit of a puppet around her. Hard to explain but i know it's not an attractive look.

Reckon things have to get all the way to the bottom before they can start rising.

I read somewhere w's hve to feel right in themselves before the can think about retarting R - makes sense.

check my thread in WAW - there is a post there about the psycology of ilybnilwy - makes a lot of sense.

Time and patience

W actually made a list of my changes - even used to call me "new" me and "old".

Nothing seems to effect her - she says were over -
W says i'm a better person than when she married me
W even says she is annoyed that the next woman will get such a good guy.

Bizarre -

Reckon the om in both our situations clouds there judgement a fair bit.

My W noticed that I lost weight and started really keeping up on my appearance, when she lived at home she use to touch my face and say how nice it was and how she wished I had started doing that a year ago. She also said that it was unfair that now I loose all the weight when she's leaving.

She recognized that I had become a more considerate lover when we were still ML (none now) and she has recognised me for giving up alchohol.

On some level I think it requires time for the changes to sink in. I also think that once the novelty wears off if the WAW is still in the fog it takes more changes. I don't know right now what to work on. I'm still dealing with things. So I have to focus on being a good dad and GAL. I feel busy all the time so at least that is working. I think that's why most of the hurt has gone away and I'm just left with disapointment and stubborn resolve.

As for the OM, I totaly agree. It's just like any new R where the OP can do no wrong and the excitement is too much to resist.

Since my W has moved out and is enjoying an almost single life I think she is loving it. She loves the freedom, her roomates, her space. She does I think miss the kids a bit and feels guilty some but overall She has not alot of motivation to change things. I was forced to be a grounding force somewhat with respect to the kids and our crumbling finances. Let me tell you it was a real challenge talking to her about finances when it would bum her out and take the focus off of her super fun life. I avoided it when possible and did the best I could when it needed to happen. In the end perhaps under the serface she was indeed motivated as she now has a temp job for a while and just texted me that she has a bartending gig (her other new thing) next week.

Beyond that our interactions are friendly. In fact I've been working on keeping the interactions and conversations down to a bare minimum and sticking to LRT. Old habits die hard though so we'll see how it goes. I want to give it some time. (I still sometimes get a strong urge to contact her though)

It was hard at first because I had difficulty not acting cold and distant while doing the LRT. I'm getting better.

HTTE,

I finally caught up with you; not that I have anything useful to say (probably). I would like to commend you on the excellent job you are doing. You are doing what you need to do, getting your own life on track without her. This isn't about you anymore, it's about your wife and her own selfish needs. You could be the perfect guy and you still wouldn't be her choice because she is looking for something else...something more destructive I think (even though she doesn't recognize this). I'm glad you have the kids. I'm a little surprised that you even have her daughter...speaks volumes about your wife's priorities. Just be patient. Keep focusing on the best for yourself and your children. Keep being friendly, but detached. It's possible in time she'll realize what a mess she made of her life, and who knows, maybe you'll even give her another chance....

Thanks Phoenix, I really appreciate the encouragement. I agree with your insight, and am going to continue my efforts to better myself and be there for my kids.

I opened a fourtune cookie the other day and it read, "Time is the best counselor." I had to laugh at how appropriate it seemed.

Hi Hopeful - I saw your post to MaryAngela and thought it was very kind of you to reach out to her. I also saw that you're in California too (what ARE they putting in the water out here?? There are too many of us!). Anyway, I just wanted to say hello.

HTTE

Yeah my w also saw my changes while she was still at home - eveything from far better ml to getting on with her friends to dancing with her. I knew at some level i was being an arse and could easily rectify my behaviour.

W even said how ironic, i'd become such a great guy for her but she still had to leave. Couldn't believe it !!!!

I persuaded her to 2 sessions of mc and she said it doesen't matter how much i had changed she still had to leave.

So i agree with pheonix - it's not about us anymore.

Saying that it doesen't stop me constantly trying to think of something i can do to bring my family back together.

I'm doing the same thing- being pleasent but minimising the interaction.

She was here ten minutes ago and if i'm not super friendly she just asks me "are you all right ?"

Nothing seems to be getting through to her.

She did say 2 months ago that my changes had not sunk in and gave me the idea that she was still hurting from past behaviour so yeah maybe time will tell.

Your waw will probably be the same - mine just speaks her mind fairly openly - even said by the time she breaks down her walls it will be too late. Didn't quiz her on that.

HTTE,

Forgot to ask

How do you handle being around you W knowing that she is leaving your place to go be with OM ?

Really messes with my head.

I think in your case your w is behaving irrationally leaving kids etc so you would hope she will become rational and sort it all out.

My W has being rational all the way through this (or as rational as she gets) so i don't really hold out much hope for her turning around but hey what else would i be doing

OK ,lets do this, I have a pressing issue that I need help with.
First, Thanks NickB, I really felt a connection from her sitch to mine. It is always odd that our sitch's are all so similar.

EH, I tell myself that I don't care what she is doing. It's not true but it works out. I know that there is nothing I can do to stop it so I focus on having a PMA and the kids. I keep really busy.

Now My issue. W asked me today to help her drop off her motorcycle for service.

I'm torn. Do I do it as a friend and nothig will change either better or worse. Or do I refuse, saying," You have chosen to leave me out of your life, I don't want to be 'that guy' you call only when you need something."

When she asked me last night I didn't know what to say so I hesitated and aluded that I'd do it.

What do you guys think?

Thank you to all posted in my I need help thread.

I sorted myself out, ran the errand with her and it was fine. Better than fine even. I'll elaborate starting with last night:

I came home and found W in her PJ's rummaging around looking for some of her things. She was really talkative about her new jobs and whatnot so just I listened. I kept pretty much to necessary topics while she would elaborate some, I would just listen. After about an hour I wanted to get on with my night and to be honest I was kinda starting to feel stressed having her there digging through stuff. Plus right about the time she found some old photo's of us and was saying, "awe, those were the days." I started to get the urge to say something to her. We joked about me wanting her to go and she eventually got her stuff and left. While I was relieved and didn't hug her goodbye I sure wanted to.

So this morning I was feeling put out that she only calls me if she needs me to do something for her or if she wants to claim weekend days. It is my nature to help people but I don't want to be taken advantage of. I feel good about how things went down and your input really helped so, thanks again.

Things really fell into place for this. I was freed up early for lunch, picked up my motorcycle, and made it to the shop way before W (she's ofter on her own time. no worries)

I really feel that I was channeling super confidence as I explained to her how to be a passenger on a bike. She really relaxed and asked if I had ever had a passenger before and I said yes. Ride to her house went great, I've always wanted to give her a ride so I just enjoyed it. I especially laughed at how I could tell when she got nervous by how tight she squeezed me with her thighs. LOL We get to her house after stopping for sandwitches and were out of time. I start to say goodbye and she looks at me and asks "who did you have on the back of your bike." I look at her back and say, "It's no matter, I should get going...She say's, It was a girl wasn't it." so I just look back at her and shrug. She then walks over to me and says thanks and that she really really apreciated the help, gives me a hug and then kisses me on the neck. I played it off as cooly as I could and gave her a peck back. She said she had fun and for me to ride safe and we left.

So I won't read anything into things other that she seemed to respond well to my confidence. That and she was jealous that she wasn't the first one to ride on the back of my motorcycle. So the best part is that I enjoyed myself even thought it was a bit stressful and I played it off as being cool and confidant (much like I would have when we were first dating.) I am careful to not loose track of the fact that she has still made some really bad choices but overall I like the confidant me, I think I'll keep him around.