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Neil- welcome back! i agree- you sound great! and it is nice to start fresh and new and look forward- not back.... sometimes it takes us to hit a low to bounce back up ....

good work!

alright...i have a question for discussion...

in several of the books i've read, (hope for the separated, save the marriage (even if you are the only one who wants to!)) it's said that the spouse reading the book should initiate contact with the other one. The Save the Marriage even goes as far as to ask your spouse "what would it take to for us to get back together?"

Not that i'm thinking of doing this...but when would it be a good time to do those things? and how does it fit with the principles preached by Michelle about pleading, pursing, etc.

Both books talk about improving yourself, changing the momentum of the relationship..etc.....but how do we work those ideas in?

well- i think if the book doesnt say when or how to do that - that is big red flag.

the DR has step by step guidelines to get everything back on track- then youc an use all those books...

i didnt ask this until last week -jokingly - and he didnt reply.

so i would say dont ask this until you are sure thigs are progessing forward.

imagine if she gets hit with this just when she is warming up to you and the idea of just spending more time with you? this could set her way back and you dont want that.

i truly think LRT mofified to being her best friend is the only way to be until you are pretty sure she wants to work on the M.


what do you think?

Hi Neil, I think one reason you got down was b/c several of us was using our little...aahh...2x4's and then you needed to know if you were doing anything at all that was right. So, that mixed with your guilt of how you use to be in the past just got the best of you.

I am concerned by some things you have said throughout your threads that you are still wanting to just go to her and say the "right words" and it will all be fixed. It won't happen, sweetie. I'm sorry, but it is going to take a long time. No magic words.....just a lot of hard work on your part and most of all a lot of changes on your part.

I have read a lot of books on MR and I still believe that Michelle's books and Dr. Harley, that writes the material for Marriage Builders, are the best. They teach the same, just use different termonology.

Reading a lot of books on how to repair marriages is almost like reading a lot of different religious doctrines.......after a while a person could really get confused and wonder what in the world to do and who is right about what! So, what I'm saying is that I think you should stick to Michelle's principles for now and just focus on putting them in action instead of reading so many different books by other writers. I can almost grant you that all of them will not agree on some point. Just like the example you gave in your post.

I was so turned off by my H that if he had asked me what you suggested was to be asked of the WAW, I would have been disgusted, plus, I would not have really known what to tell him. At that time, I just wanted to get away from him....not tell him what would work to keep us together. You have to remember that the WAW does not have the frame of mind to "repair the marriage". That is what you don't seem to be getting. That is why she needs space from you and for you to stop pursuing her and stop focusing all your energy on her and the stitch. It is not attractive to her at this point and time and it puts pressure on her.

I will be honest, I would like to see some changes in him....now. I don't say much, b/c when I was on another forum, it got thrown back in my face all the time about what all I needed to do......but I was just trying to recover from the experience with OM and trying to find my old self again. I was not at the point of "working" again. I was sick and tired of "working" b/c I felt like I was the only one that had worked....ever. (Sorry, about to get on my own stuff here.)

Anyway, I think your wife does not want to think about what would "work" to get her back or what to do to make the M work or what changes you would need to make. This, to me, comes across as "needy" in a man. Just "do the work and the changes" that you have been told. Don't discuss it with her....just do it. If it seems to go bad....you will know not to do it again. Try something else.

I wonder if you are resisting doing that. You are looking for a quick, cheap, ticket to get your old wife and old life back...and it ain't gonna happen. This is going to be long and hard and you need to go to work and stop trying to figure out another "easy" way. Okay? ((hugs))

Sandi

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Uhm.....what SHE said...


Bill

Sandi...

ummm...

thanks. i think. wasn't what i was looking for..... i know it came from the heart tho.

because i'm a teacher......(for some reason, i think you and bridgestone are too...) i pull things from everywhere and try to adapt them to my sitch. some work. some don't. however, i have found that michelle's work the best, so i'm sticking with those... ya know?

everything you said.....i'm keenly aware of. I just need to vent/whine about it a little bit...to get it out... you're right...this week was pretty bad...but that's because i let it be. i felt lost and hopeless...when in reality...i have all the power to do this right in my hands...i have control of this sitch...because i can control myself and make myself better...it'll be her loss if she chooses to go elsewhere...

thank you tho.

Keep reminding yourself of that... When it get's really hard, keep reminding yourself that you have control here too and that this will really be her loss. No you can't make her come back, but you can show her some reasons to want to...

We all have rough weeks. Did you read mine a couple weeks ago... Yikes. Hang in there!

ann

Hi, well, H got sidetracked for a minute, so I'll start on this.


<<you've peeked my interest here....what've you got to tell me? If it's bad for me, about me and my R with my W..then probably not now. However, if it's an issue with her, then.....go for it. I have several suspicions, but would like your thoughts....

You know how I swag (sophisticated wild *ss guess)..here goes...these are general ideas, not every situation, not every person, not every time....

When a child is abused, they numb (dissociate) out their mind & body as a way of getting away from the abuse. When that child becomes a woman, & she gets into a sexual interaction, that "ability" to numb out is almost instinct & she has to learn how not to do it. Her body feels nothing. No pleasurable feelings, no stimulation, nothing. She feels pressure & knows she is being touched, but it doesn't have any feeling sensation attached.

This gets tricky.

Sometimes, those same survivors also know how to use sex to get affection & attention. They know how they're supposed to respond, they're very adept at faking an "O". So, it's possible for that woman to be with a man who is quite skilled & talented as a lover, yet never achieve any pleasure from it, yet appear to be quite pleased. A lot of abused survivors can count on one hand the number of orgasms they've had, even though they may have had numerous partners, & hundreds of experiences and their partner would never know that they're incapable of having an orgasm with a partner. A lot of abused survivors can only have an orgasm by themself.

Now, what were your suspicions ?

Now, your book question. In my opinion ........ marriage books are written for people raised in a semi-functional, semi-safe, semi-loving home. If one of the parties was abused sexually, physically, or psychologically, in anyway, all the rules are changed.

Night.

SC..thanks.

Suspicions.....

that was one of them. However, in the 13 years we've been together...she's never hinted at ANYTHING like that. however......it could be very deeply buried.

other suspicions...uncomfortableness with her body. she always was worried about......odors.....hair...etc. Ticklish...if i was to.....play....she would take my hand and put it there. Pressure from me....not that i pressured her to let me, but when i did, i looked to her for an indication that i was doing it correctly.... And it's not like she didn't let me....it was VERY infrequent...and she usually was drunk...

IDK.

thanks SC

Hi Neil, so are you saying that you were suspicions of some type of abuse b/c your W was unable to respond to your sexual love making? If she has never said anything or shown any other signs of someone that was abused, I would not think that her "not repsonding" would mean she had been abused. There are a lot of reasons that women don't respond to sex or aren't able to reach an orgasm,etc. There are a lot of women in that same boat that are not respondsive to their H's touch the way they would like to be, but it isn't b/c they were sexually abused.

Back to the books. There are a lot of good books that are recommended here on this site and I think it is great that we are allowed to do that all in the name of busting a divorce. If there are some special problems in addition to the normal problems of M, S, and D, then yes, by all means try to get more information. I was trying to say that sometime people spend so much time reading material that contradicts each other that they end up very confused. I am glad that you have decided to stay with Michelle's books. Maybe you have said and I can't remember, have you ever talked to one of the DB coaches about your stitch?

I was glad to hear your determination and PMA in your last post. It even made me feel good to read it. I hope you can keep that frame of mind.

(hug)

Sandi