Sorry you didn't get to see him today. FWIW it does souns as though he wasn't feeling good in himself. If I was feeling like that I probably wouldn't want to see anyone either. I also wonder whether, if he sees you as a friend, he thinks it's OK to not see you for 3 weeks and that things will continue as usual once he emerges from the cave??
If he wasn't coming back, how would you live your life? I think you have to live your life that way without expectations of him.... hope but not expectations.
He obviously has his own issues to work out that are nothing to do with you. You have two options- either to keep living at his beck and call with expectations of him, riding the rollercoaster, or to drop the rope and have no expectations, live your life and see what happens.
Gosh, but I wish he wasn't feeling like this and you'd had a chance to see him. Did you raise any of the things you'd wanted to discuss on the phone?
Hey Lisa, was just thinking about you. So heres the convo from what I can recall and note that I kept plugging away (I'm NEVER like this) but got nowhere..sorry if its long, I'll do it in two halves.
M: You alright? H: oh...alright, bit rough actually, dont feel very well, got a headache and stuff, tired, poorly. Nevermind hey. M: I'm sorry to hear that, were you at the shops? H: I had to go get some food and pills for my headache, I dont feel very good. M: What is that physically, or mentally or bit of both? H: Bit of both really, maybe I shouldnt have gone out last night. I feel a bit sicky, poorly tummy, havent eaten. I was ill yesterday I had an underlying sickiness all day, felt really bleugh. M: But you were really busy though, at work H: Yes, I was flat out which was good, took my mind off it. - talked about his leaving do last night and he moaned about it. H: I've been watching poorly tele, I've got a banging headache and just feel eugh, my stomachs gurgling, I haven't eaten today I just cant face it. M: How have you got a bad tummy then? H: I don't know just stressy stuff M: Oh? Your bad tummy is cos of stress then, not physical? H: Certainly physically I feel quite grim, shouldn't have gone out last night. I'm not going to do anything, just going to crash. I'm sorry, 'not being funny, I'm just not up to it. (I hadn't asked him to meet!) M: Oh that's a shame as I was hoping to meet up with you H: I'm really sorry, I just don't want to do anything, I'm not going to see anybody. M: No? H: No I don't think so, I'm just going to crash here. M: Its just that I'm conscious that I haven't seen you for a while. (TRYING TO CONFRONT IT!) H: I'm sorry I'm just not up to it that's all M: Well, as long as thats the only reason? H: Yes, I just feel crappy M: Well then I’m sorry to put you on the spot…(interupts) H: Don't worry about it, don't, stop it really (sounding very sweet), I'm just feeling a bit ropey that’s all, don’t apologise. M: Well, as long as you're sure H: No, honestly, its ok M: But I haven’t seen you for the past few weekends H: I know, I've had stuff on. I'm just not feeling too good, I definetly need to go and eat something. M: I'm sorry if I am making you feel awkard, I was just hoping to see you I guess. H: Sorry, I'm upsetting you, I just want to chill here. We need to do that tenancy thing as well, but I know that's not the point (sounding sweet, as in, that's not the only reason to meet) M: Well if theres some other reason, or if you are annoyed at me H: NO! Of course I’m not annoyed at you, you muppet (being sweet again, we joke about muppets for a bit). Of course I'm not, I just feel like being quiet and I do feel quite ropey. I guess I've been a bit mad the last few weeks, drinking a lot, its just the way things have happened. (- we talked about his /weekends nights out and how he discussed drinking with the doctor who said it was ok for him to in moderation!) ...
... H: I don't want to do anything I'm afraid, I'm going to go have something to eat, I'll give you call when I'm feeling better, Sunday or Monday (sounding like it would be Monday). I just want to relax and stuff. M (pause) - I'm sorry, I'm really sorry M: Why do you keep saying sorry? H: Because I've upset you, I can hear it in your voice, I know I'm upsetting you M: But I didn't say anything then! Am I upsetting you then? H: No! Not at all (sweet again) Categorically not M: Well its a shame as I was going to cook you dinner and we could have rented a film and just relaxed H: I'm sorry, I know its probably not what you want to hear, but I just want to be on my own a bit, just want to be by myself. M: What all weekend? H: Yeah, that's fine by me. I just really feel like, I don't know, like I want to close the doors, really just want to totally veg M; We've been really close and you talk to me and as long as you're ok and theres nothing you’re not telling me? H: I just feel grumpy and poorly and crappy and crabby M: Really? But from my point of view, the things you say about how you're feeling, especially when you’re drunk are quite upsetting and .. H: Oh, no, I'm ok I'm not gonna do anything mad, I just feel quiet though (obviously got what I was implying here)
And at that we said goodbye. He asked me earlier what I'd been up to and if I'd seen some people and I said yes, but I got a little frustrated and said, but its not about seeing others and he said I know, I'm just interested. I also told him I missed him and he just did more apologising at that point I think.
I didnt give up, I kept asking, but he just kept deflecting it. Me saying, I havent seen you for a while and him answering, yeah Ive been busy havent I...is not the reason is it, and he knows that I guess.
In answer to your questions, I guess I have to give up, get on with my own life now. So yes, annoying that I didnt get to see him face to face and point out, but you have been hanging out with me for the past 6 months, why have you stopped? He never lets me have a voice!!!! For a year...no arguments, no discussion, not before when we were together I'd say whats wrong?? And he just said, I'm tired.. and then when he was making his decision he said he didnt want to discuss it and after he left and I tried to talk to him, he said, I dont know what I can say, you'll probably never understand. And he never would verbalise WHY he kept phoning me every night and he wont now tell me why he has stopped. AVOIDANCE !!! I'm so mad. And upset of course. I'm annoyed at myself for not being more direct with him too.
Its his birthday next week, we do have to sign this lease (I could post it to him but I wouldnt trust him to return it, he hasnt checked the bank accounts like he said he would and he apologised for that too). I have a pressie to give him too and then, I guess I wont see him.
Oh and before I was offering to cook him dinner I think I was saying I was sorry that he was ill and if there was anythig I could do, like bring him some food. and I said, but the problem is, I have nvere been to your flat though have I so you probably wouldnt want me to do that? and he said something like, ho thats ok, I just went to the shops... so again, avoiding what I was saying !???
Does anyone reading this feel as confuse3d as me? Or Naej, are you sticking to your, take the hint !? Maybe he is done with me but couldnt face saying it (although he did at the bomb and every time we sooke between Nov and Dec, like.."I dont want to have to be hard Al, but if you want me to spell it out, I dont love you anymore") Maybe I shold have just said "please be my friend and be honest with me", but he would have just said "Oh, I'm just feeling a bit ropey, thats all..."
Thoughts anyone? Give up? Join the circus? Rip his head off? That'll cure his depression.
just wondering really I had a friend who did it and seemed to give her "understanding". I am not a believer myself but thought with your astrology interests you might be.
No you really haven't got an answer from him. You could well be right however with your assumption, as you know him best and how he deals with difficult issues.
For now let it go and try and do something nice for you. He can't be ill for ever can he so sooner or later he will have to see or contact you-I guess you still have lease to sort. Take care ((())))
I just realised that my DBing went out the window...I kept saying "But I havent seen you" or "I was hoping to see you" - instead of being all cool and as if, I never ever said this stuff to him in the past 6 months. So thats a change I guess. And he didnt freak out, in fact, its like he kept repeating "its ok, I'm just ill" like there was no other reason for not seeing me. I write as he speaks, I do miss bits, but this was verbatim:
M: Its just that I'm conscious that I haven't seen you for a while. (TRYING TO CONFRONT IT!) H: I'm sorry I'm just not up to it that's all M: Well, as long as thats the only reason? H: Yes, I just feel crappy M: Well then I'm sorry to put you on the spot..(interupts) H: Don't worry about it, don't, stop it really (sounding very sweet), I'm just feeling a bit ropey that's all, don't apologise. M: Well, as long as you're sure H: No, honestly, its ok M: But I haven't seen you for the past few weekends H: I know, I've had stuff on. I'm just not feeling too good, I definetly need to go and eat something. M: I'm sorry if I am making you feel awkard, I was just hoping to see you I guess. H: Sorry, I'm upsetting you, I just want to chill here. We need to do that tenancy thing as well, but I know that's not the point (sounding sweet, as in, that's not the only reason to meet) M: Well if theres some other reason, or if you are annoyed at me H: NO! Of course I'm not annoyed at you, you muppet (being sweet again, we joke about muppets for a bit). Of course I'm not, I just feel like being quiet and I do feel quite ropey. I guess I've been a bit mad the last few weeks, drinking a lot, its just the way things have happened.
I know you are not going to want to hear this Ali but I'm going to say it anyway our of friendship and concern for you.
He's done. He is a "compliant avoidant". He's aware that you are hurt and struggling but he doesn't see how his actions have anything to do with it really. He keeps apologizing because he hopes that will send your thoughts in another direction but you held on like a dog with a bone.
Don't contact him again for anything. Make him come to you no matter what. Even though he said he'd call you Sunday or Monday - don't expect him to because he most likely won't. He's eternally "ropey". What does that say to you? He's miserable or full of it - one or the other. He makes himself this way and uses it as an excuse to avoid you.
I know it sucks. I know it's nearly impossible to imagine your life without him but it's time. Let him go.
Is there any way you can handle the lease without him? Can he send you permission to sign for him "in absentia" or something of that nature?
T19 M15 S19 XH47 M43 bomb12/4/07 PA5/07 S12/26/07 D final 11/17/08 Back together with no defined R 05/2010 confused....to say the least!!!
Eternally ropey? Well, is that depression? He went back to the doctor Wednesday because he feels low and cant sleep. My sister said she was amazed he went to his doctor cos he cant sleep - is he that out of touch with himself...if you cant sleep, do relaxtion, drink milky drinks, confront the things in life that are keeping you awake, quit drinking, do exercise.. whats the doctor gonna say? (and he didnt go for sleeping pills).
Whats a compliant avoider? So you think he is done, but is just being nice?
But if he doesnt see how his actions have anything to do with my hurt and upset, why did he say...
H: I'm sorry, I'm really sorry M: Why do you keep saying sorry? H: Because I've upset you, I can hear it in your voice, I know I'm upsetting you
I've been debating phoning him back and having it out with him. If he's done, what difference does it make if I do? Like you say, let go, so why not have my say before I do so.
I'll give you the definition of a compliant avoidant:
Compliant Avoidants suffer from what is called "reversed boundaries". They have no boundaries where they need them, and they have boundaries where they shouldn't have them. Compliants say "yes" to the bad (things or people who are taking and taking and never giving back). The reasons for this are: Fear of hurting the other person's feelings. Fear of abandonment and separateness A wish to be totally dependent on another Fear of someone else's anger Fear of punishment Fear of being shamed Fear of being seen as bad or selfish Fear of being unspiritual Fear of one's overstrict, critical conscience.
That last fear is actually experienced as guilt. People who have an overstrict, critical conscience will condemn themselves for things God himself doesn't condemn them for. The fear of disobeying the harsh conscience (guilt feelings) translates into an inability to confront others - because it would cause more guilt!
Avoidants say "no to the Good. They don't accept help from others because they feel that their own problems probably pale in comparison to those around them. They bear everything themselves and build walls around their emotions and very souls instead of boundaries with gates in them that will breathe in the good and expel the bad.
Compliant avoidants have all of these traits.
Why do I understand this? I am a compliant avoidant. I can give a friend 4 hours of my time to listen to their problems and try to help them reflect on it but I can't ask for 10 minutes of their time to do the same for me. I can't share my true pain or feelings with anyone because I fear that opening that to them will cause them to think badly about me because their problems are SO much worse than mine.
Ali, honestly, if you want to call him and have it out with him, by all means do it. Just know that you will most likely be closing the door on him completely. If you can manage to let all of your pain go knowing that you will never have any answers from him as to why everything changed you might want to do that. That way you may at least, someday, be able to regain your true friendship after the emotional scars of your R are healed.
T19 M15 S19 XH47 M43 bomb12/4/07 PA5/07 S12/26/07 D final 11/17/08 Back together with no defined R 05/2010 confused....to say the least!!!
Thanks Mishka, I was just about to call then. I wont. If you know you're like that then, why dont you practice not being like that?
So I was right, its over. On the lunar eclipse. He had the chance to see me and he made some lame excuse about not feeling well. I have hung on for him for a year. He never did meet anyone else, as far as I know.
He is ruled by fear and shame from what I know of him. He is incapable of verbalising this. When I found out some stuff about him, he curled up in the foetal position for 2 hours. Our R was never the same after that (3 years ago) and I dont think it will be after this. So thats its then, over.
I actually feel sick and anxious and I cant eat. Gonna call that EAP line as I dont want to bother my friends on a Saturday night. This is a horrible horrible life lesson.
