Always nice to hear from you :). In case you didn't see my other thread, I did think I aced it at the counseling session today, even if I hated hearing what H had to say to me. I also did not particularly like the counselor's style, who seemed really gung-ho on the separation, and even suggested that we limit contact. He kept asking H why he had stayed in the relationship...I feel like he would push H into leaving the marriage were we to continue seeing him on a long-term basis.
BTW on the Facebook thing, he seems to keep changing his profile. I've been obsessively checking, and 50% of the time it looks normal, 50% of the time it's limited.
Working on the control thing...I've made a few mistakes today, but overall I think I've been good-to the point of admitting being overly controlling in the counseling session. Of course I subsequently sent an email about going to a counseling session at the Boulder DB center, but to be fair, I was told I need to reserve soon if I want to choose dates in the near future and he has said he wasn't opposed to the idea...
Anyway we have lunch tomorrow, so I'll post back on how it goes. I feel pretty good about it given how I held up in counseling. The trick is going to be to find things to chat about that are not related to the situation...
You're so right about the raw and heightened emotions on my side anyway. It's just that it seems as though H has no emotions. Today in counseling he was asked how he felt about seeing me every 2 weeks, and he said he had no opinion right now, that he couldn't imagine that he would dislike it, but he didn't know if it would make him happy. He seems so dead inside, and this is even how he describes himself...Was your H like that as well?
Thanks! ITH
Me:34 H:36 M:5 years T: 8 years Bomb: 07/17/08 I want to be separated for 6 months--I don't know what I want the outcome to be S 07/28/08-11/08/08 Living together ~7 months D Possibly busted?!?!!!
Today H and I had our first real in person counseling session(first time seeing each other in 5 days). My DB coach Jody had suggested that this could be an opportunity for me to demonstrate how much I wanted to listen to H. One of his major complaints is that I never listen...So when the counselor asked what I was looking for, I said that it was to understand H's point of view as this was something that in the past I hadn't really given him the opportunity to share. I also followed Jody's advice and said that I understood the separation was necessary, and that it was a great opportunity for me. I sat, without crying (though I turned bright red) while he talked about how he felt empty inside, didn't know what his feelings were anymore, really needed his space, doesn't know what outcome he wants etc. I even said that I understood why he felt the way he did, and that I was really sorry for contributing to this. The counselor pushed me a bit on my own feelings, but I kept it as light as possible, and just said that I knew there were problems that needed to be solved, and that I hoped if things worked out we could have a "new marriage".
I told the counselor that I didn't want to only dredge up the past, but wanted to look for ways to improve our communication going forward. While I will be away from work for a couple of months, Counselor said seeing each other every 2 weeks might be too often, so I even said "yes I agree, maybe every 4 weeks". I can't say that H seemed softened in any way, but at a couple of points he looked a little relieved. I did maybe make a couple of errors in saying that obviously my end goal was still to save the marriage, but in saying this I said that I saw no deadline (I always have deadlines so this was hard) and that I was willing to give it the time it needed.
After the session, we went our separate ways, BUT he gave me a hug that seemed genuine and lingered. He called me by my pet name, and we are going to lunch tomorrow. I am meeting him at the house, and he even made a joke about how all of the ladies will be out of there by the time I arrive. This is the kind of lightweight joking that we used to have, and I told him the ladies better be out as they would feel inadequate after seeing how hot I am :).
All in all, I don't think it could have gone too much better (except the obvious hope that H would have said he was making a big mistake :)).
I've pasted here the post you put on your C session thread so more people will see it. It's best to stick to one thread at a time on the boards, if they are dotted about then people can lose track.
OK, to continue ....
The C session - what you said was spot on! Well done, especially about not wanting to drdge up the past but look to the future instead. I agree here, I feel it's important to look at the past but only with the aim of seeing what mistakes were made, then you can decide how you will do things better in the future. Certainly looking to the past to give explainations as to why you are in a M crisis is a bit daft. Did you go to Relate? I went there and felt they had the attitude "well, if your H isn't happy you have to let him go and maybe yes you shuold get D". If you don't feel this C is helping then don't carry on, but having said that sometimes the first C session can be the C gathering information, and the subsequent ones are better. Give it a few more goes and see what you think.
Facebook - set yourself a goal to not check. Please stop checking because this could interfere with your PMA and with the growth of your PMA which is going to be happening very soon if it hasn't yet started!
On the control thing - good work. Yes someties you're going to have to ask him things, as they will impact on plans you have FOR YOURSELF. This is different, you're not trying to control him, you're trying to organise your OWN life. This way, if he pipes up that he feels controlled you can state that you are sorry he feels like that but all you are trying to do is organise your own life, as you have people to see, things to get to, you are quite busy etc etc (also demonstrates to him that he is NOT the centre of your life at the moment). WAS's who need space can start to think the world revolves around them, they can make assumptions about the LBS based on the latter's usual behaviour, but right now you're SHOWING him that you've changed. Eventually he'll accept that. One day he may well change and you might just find it takes YOU a long time to accept he's changed, and you'll appreciate the viewpoint he has now.
Lunch - you have it right. Light topics, if he wants to talk about the C session then let him, keep your answers about i vague. Keep him guessing. I think you'll be fine.
"dead inside" - this stopped me in my tracks. I have heard from my H either that phrase or very similar. When he left to go and live in his mate's flat, his words were something like "I have no enjoyment of anything in life right now. Even football, which I usually love, I just don't feel any excitement for". I was deeply worried that he was medically depressed. i urged him to see his doctor (which he didn't, wish I'd kept my mouth shut) but it was really hard to see him like that. Of course there was the fact he wanted to leave me, but also I was scared cos he didn't look or act like himslef, and I was worried for him. He looked like some kind of pale, washed out robot. he certainly wasn't the H I knew.
ITS, keep at it. I see a lot of positives here, but I must re-iterate the warning that this will not move half as quickly as you want. You need patience by the bucketload! Then when you've used all your buckets up, order in truckloads. That's no exageration!!!
Bomb (ILYBINILWY, don't want to be married)Sept05 Seperated Sept/Oct 05 Oct 06 - H recomitted July 11 - I am now a WAW.
Eerie again on the similarities... My H says that he tried to make a list of 5 things that make him happy, an he could only think of 2. There is nothing that he likes to do...He also doesn't look very well, but to be fair he has been jogging and going to yoga, so at least he is taking a healthy approach.
OK so I won't bring up the Boulder session at lunch today, but i am going to have to bring it up in the next week or so if I want to reserve the space. Ugh, that's going to be a difficult one...
We also have a weekend trip planned for his bday in the first week of September. At this point he just keeps saying, "let's just see"--his current favorite--and my least favorite--saying. This is another one that we need to make a decision on, and I'm trying to let the ball be in his court, but I don't think it's fair for me to wait around until the last minute...
OK well thanks again for the positive encouragement, and I will post here later on how lunch goes.
ITH
Me:34 H:36 M:5 years T: 8 years Bomb: 07/17/08 I want to be separated for 6 months--I don't know what I want the outcome to be S 07/28/08-11/08/08 Living together ~7 months D Possibly busted?!?!!!
ha ha - "let's just see" = your H. "Wait and see how it turns out" = my H's fave at that time. Cue the Twighlight Zone theme tune
He did also say in the early weeks that he was enjoying NOT making plans. We met up for a quick 20 min drink about two or three days into our S - it was a good meeting, he told me he had got a lot of pleasure out of cooking himself a simple meal. He needed me to not be around in order to recover.
Bomb (ILYBINILWY, don't want to be married)Sept05 Seperated Sept/Oct 05 Oct 06 - H recomitted July 11 - I am now a WAW.
Ok-not sure if today was a success or a failure. Would love to hear some thoughts...
We ended up meeting at a restaurant instead of the house. This was fine. Topics were fine, a few mentions of the future budget-and the usual let's just see. We walked back to the house together for me to pick up some stuff. I took the dogs on a walk for about 20 minutes, while he just watched tv. I tried sitting by him but after about 1 minute I could see him tensing up. So I just said I was leaving in a few minutes, and went to pack a few things.I then came back and sat down to tell him about my planned dates for flying to Poland. He's going on a business trip Monday, so asked if I'd be coming Monday to stay. He's leaving at 3 PM or so, but as it's a holiday, I mentioned I'd hoped to come earlier to do some laundry and such. This seemed fine, but then I mentioned doing lunch-twice. The usual we'll see, and I even offered to text before coming to see if I should pick anything up. I know this was a mistake. He hugged me goodbye, not much of a hug. I gave him a 2nd hug, then out of habit went to give him a kiss-he turned so I only got his cheek. Then-the worst-I asked if he'd had a nice time at lunch today. He said yes, but who knows. Can't believe I said this...anyway when I left I just asked if he'd email me some show he's downloading, and said I hoped he had a good day tomorrow (he's going climbing). He said he'd be on Skype later anyway. So the end was light and normal, but I think I might have overdone it a bit at the house...
ITH
Me:34 H:36 M:5 years T: 8 years Bomb: 07/17/08 I want to be separated for 6 months--I don't know what I want the outcome to be S 07/28/08-11/08/08 Living together ~7 months D Possibly busted?!?!!!
Oh and one more point for those who saw my Facebook crisis last night. H actually brought Facebook up today and mentioned that his coworkers are starting to add him, so he's been toying with making his profile private since it shows religious and political beliefs. Thanks to those of you who warned me against saying anything. I would have looked like a complete freak if I'd made an argument about this.
ITH
Me:34 H:36 M:5 years T: 8 years Bomb: 07/17/08 I want to be separated for 6 months--I don't know what I want the outcome to be S 07/28/08-11/08/08 Living together ~7 months D Possibly busted?!?!!!
Nope - all seems fine to me. Top marks, young lady
(oh and remember the facebook lesson - it's a good exmaple for the words "for each situation, there are usually several explainations, so don't automatically pick the most negative one". Here endeth lesson)
Bomb (ILYBINILWY, don't want to be married)Sept05 Seperated Sept/Oct 05 Oct 06 - H recomitted July 11 - I am now a WAW.
OK I'm feeling incredibly low today. This is the first weekend that I have been away from H where we are separated, moreover it's a holiday weekend here, and usually we would do something on these weekends. In his mind, we are not married or even dating during this time (even though he says he won't date other people either). I just want to cry, to call him, to talk to him, to send him a long email. I can't understand why he doesn't miss me. In fact in counseling he said that he feels calmer now that he is on his own. I'm leaving the country in 2 weeks for 2 months, and if he is becoming so much happier and stronger on his own, why would he ever consider letting me back in his life? I am just utterly terrified right now, and to me these 2 weeks before I go should be an opportunity to spend quality time together, but I literally think he's counting down the days until I leave. Each time I see him, it is worse. Before I gave him space for the first time, he was still touching me, and being mildly affectionate. After the 1st 5 days apart, he became like a zombie, but still had conversations with me. Now when I see him, he seems to have the patience to be around me for only about 1 hour or so, before he shuts down. I just don't know whether I should continue feeling optimism. Everyone I know is telling me to come up with an alternative plan, and to just accept the marriage as essentially being over.
I really don't think that physical separations are a good thing, especially if we don't see each other for several weeks at a time. H had said he "needed to miss me". What happens if he doesn't miss me? I don't know how much effort he will be willing to put into a marriage that suddenly he seems "never to have been happy" in. I am feeling completely overwhelmed and I just don't know how to get past this...Will the time in another country help? Does anyone think that physical distance actually does help or does it make the WAS even more hardened?
Feeling blue today...
ITH
Me:34 H:36 M:5 years T: 8 years Bomb: 07/17/08 I want to be separated for 6 months--I don't know what I want the outcome to be S 07/28/08-11/08/08 Living together ~7 months D Possibly busted?!?!!!
First off, don't call, don't send an e-mail, don't speak to him.
Sometimes it takes men up to 12 weeks to feel a loss/miss someone. I know this weekend seems like a good time to spend quality time together, but he needs the space to get his head together.
Also, ignore what everyone else is saying. Remember what it says in DR about people not wanting to see you hurting. They see giving up as the way towards that, but they haven't been in your situation. Only you can decide whether to give up, or whether to fight for your M. What's your heart telling you to do?
Have you got anything planned for yourself for today? A trip to the shops maybe?
It's always really nice to hear from you :). I already went to the gym this morning, and am just trying to figure out what I should do next. I may go to a bookstore or something and try to pick out a book that's not centered on relationships. Today just seems like a never-ending day...Funny how before this all happened Sundays seemed mercilessly short.
12 weeks...well I will have been out of the house for 12 weeks by the time I get back from Poland, but at this point we are still going to see each other during this time. Now I am wondering whether even that is a mistake.
I really do want to fight for my M and I have to believe that if H had no hope at all, he would be honest with me. In the last counseling session he said there would be no way he would go back to the R if it was the way before, and didn't think I'd want to either. So this wasn't a not at all, but not if statement...He also said that his guard is still up around me, that he keeps thinking that I am going to try to get him to change his mind about the time apart. More than people giving me advice though, I am worried about the people giving him advice. Now all of his coworkers know, and his mother had suggested to him that he needed to be on his own. He is obsessed with his mother, and will basically take every piece of advice she gives. She has been divorced twice herself, and I think doesn't put a lot of stock in saving a marriage. How does one counteract that? At the very beginning I'd told him he should only take advice from a professional, but now I know I can't say anything more about this. We agreed in our informal separation document the following:
*To stay in contact (no details of how) *Not to date or sleep with other people *To work on our friendship first and if more happened, this was fine too *Not to speak negatively about the other person *To do individual and joint counseling sessions *For me to give space
I really, really want to fight for the marriage. I just wish I could get some idea about whether he really, really wants things to work out too--even if he isn't currently sure if they can...
ITH
Me:34 H:36 M:5 years T: 8 years Bomb: 07/17/08 I want to be separated for 6 months--I don't know what I want the outcome to be S 07/28/08-11/08/08 Living together ~7 months D Possibly busted?!?!!!
