Hi Brian, Oh man! Does that echo where I've been since last spring sans the confrontation and ultimatum. There's a part of me that wishes I had the backbone to lay it on the line like that, but when I ask myself will it work, I get the sense that she's looking for me to push her out. So I wonder what good is it to do her bidding?
I like talitsa's concept of compartmentalizing the visits with OG. It seems to fit well. They just don't seem to recognize how it affects everything outside the compartment when they are standing within. What also becomes a greater problem is when they start to yearn to spend more time inside that compartment. Its like an addiction and to break the addiction there is bound to be the affects of withdrawal. How long does it take to cleanse the heart and mind of the yearning?
... And I'm still dealing with those thoughts of doom too. How long does that last? Since it seems unrealistic to think our spouses will actually forget about OP, I'm guessing until we receive some form of confirmation that our spouses will no longer act upon any thoughts of OP, we will continue to have a difficult time in trusting their feelings for us and letting go of that inpending feeling of doom.
Brian, as many have already have chimed in, you're in good company with the thoughts and feelings you are dealing with ... and like the rest of us here, you are using what is thrown your way to learn how to come out on top knowing you handled it the best way you could. If you gain that kind of contentment, then you have learned to use DBing succesfully and that's valued wisdom we all wish to share in.
I've been a lurker the last few weeks. Trying to focus more on my job, but haven't had much success. Sometimes the BB brings me down rather than lifts me up. It's not you guys, it's me. The sad stories, especially those in Newcomers, sometimes just reinforce my own negativity, and I come away feeling worse instead of better. It would probably be better to stick to the Piecing threads - more hopeful.
My situation has taken a vaguely negative turn, and has left me confused and depressed about how to proceed. Since the confrontation about 3 weeks ago about catching my W still in contact with the OG, my ultimatum, and her latest (and, one way or another, final) promise to end all contact with him, life has mostly gone on normally. Nothing bad in particular, except that my fears, insecurities, and general feelings of crappiness are back to where they were about 3 months ago. I had thought we had gotten past this stage forever, but it turns out I'm still mired in the same ol' sh!t.
Had an R talk out by the pool on Sunday, at my initiation, and then again later that night, surprisingly, at hers. During the pool talk, she said that she didn't know why she continued to be attracted to the OG, except that he was new, had no bad history with her, etc. She said that she had not had any contact with him since the last confrontation. But, that she still feels more "in love" with him than with me. This statement perhaps shouldn't have surprised me, but it did, given how great things went in July, and how much progress I thought I had perceived we had made. She said that she sometimes feels in love with me, but not all the time. She continued to insist that the physical part of the affair had ended in May.
She said that she knew that she wanted the life we have - the kids, the neighborhood, the friends, etc - and that the OG does not fit in that life. She knows that she can't have it both ways, and that for our M to work, she can't have any R with him.
So now we're back to her staying mostly for reasons that have nothing to do with me, just our life together. In the beginning, that was enough. But I'm getting to the point where it has to be about me, or I will be perpetually unhappy. I won't leave, for the sake of the family, unless I find further evidence of continued contact (and I've stopped snooping, for now). But I will continue to feel that awful void, not having a W that loves me and me alone.
I asked her how long she thought I should hang in here, waiting for our M to improve, and what she would do if she were in my shoes. She said that I should hang in forever, at least as long as she is committed to our M herself (and she insisted that she is).
I told her about my feelings of doom and hopelessness, and that I wondered how long we were going to continue to be in this situation. She said that she understood my feelings, but that she was more hopeful than me about the future of our R. I said, "are we going to be having this same conversation a year from now?" She said something to the effect that, "oh no, things will be better sooner than that". So I guess if she's feeling hopeful, maybe that's something to hang onto. When she thinks about the future, it's with me, and that's a good thing.
The conversation ended OK. Later that night, she asked for a backrub. Toward the end, I told her that I loved her and gave her a big hug. She started crying hard and said that making her feel loved made her want to love me. She said that she has been going through a major depression herself, because of rejection by various people in her family (explanation: her S14, who had been planning to live with us, decided at the last moment just before Labor Day to go live with his dad several hours away from here. That was a biggy. Also, her mother is slightly psycho and has basically broken off all contact with us for no reason; and her older brother also rarely returns calls or emails or comes to parties that we've invited him to, he seemingly is just too wrapped up in his own life. Further, her dad died about 10 years ago. So the only family of hers that she is close to is her younger brother's, who live close by.) She said that she just doesn't feel much love and that is one of the big reasons why it is so hard for her to give up the OG - he makes her feel loved. She said that she knows she can't have it both ways, but if she could, she would want to go on seeing him and being married to me. (Yeah, darlin, there are times I'd like to have a mistress too, ya know?)
She said that our children are her only source of happiness, and that she wouldn't feel like living if it weren't for them. This last statement finally made me realize just how depressed she is. She has never said it like that before.
The thing is, though, that there is very little that I could have done over the last 7 months to make her feel more loved by me than I did. Physically, with lots of affectionate touching, with words, with various acts of kindness, etc. I mean, I may have stumbled once or twice, but there is no way that she could not feel loved by me. So it's not that she doesn't know that I love her, it's that she doesn't value it. She doesn't love me much, so she doesn't place a high value on the love I give her. If she did, she wouldn't be so depressed. I mean, for me, everyone in the world could reject me and I would still feel OK, as long as my W and children loved me.
We talked for awhile about her feelings and she opened up more fully in this conversation than she has in a long time. I think I listened well. We ended up falling asleep in each other's arms and spent the night cuddling, which felt good, but neither one of us got much sleep, both depressed, but for different reasons.
The last few days have gone OK, but this depression of my W's is not drawing us closer, for sure. I don't really know what I can do to improve things. It's hard to know, especially when you find that what seemed to be working, in fact wasn't, or at least had stopped working. I had been considering detaching as a sort of 180. But my W's statement that making her feel loved makes her want to love me more is making me reconsider. If I detach too much, she might take that as some kind of rejection. This is not the time to go dark, not the time to make her wonder where I've been, etc. So it's a bit of a quandry as to what I can effectively do to improve our R.
As a further complication, the 9th anniversery of our engagement and 11th anniversery of our 1st date is this Friday. My plan is to take her to the new Nicholas Cage movie (our 1st date was also to a Nicholas Cage movie) and dinner. Beyond that, I don't know how much of a celebration to try to make it. We always exchange cards and I don't know what to say. I guess I'll keep it simple. I don't want to gush and then get a simple Happy Anniversery card in return.
I know that a lot of this backslide in her attitude toward me is because of the renewed contact witht the OG during the 1st 3 weeks of August. But I wonder to a certain extent how much the renewed contact caused this backslide, and how much it was just a symptom of the backslide.
Overall, it just sucks to consider that we (i.e., she) don't seem to be any further along the path to a better M than we were 3 months ago. Things continue to be OK day to day, but all of the crappy feelings have returned, along with a whole lotta confusion about what to do about it all.
Finally, I apologize for not visiting other's threads. I've got some catching up to do.
sorry things are less than perfect for you right now...the only thing I can offer is...well at least w is being 'honest' about her feelings...
Quote: (Yeah, darlin, there are times I'd like to have a mistress too, ya know?)
I had to laugh outloud at this one!!! but on a more serious note...when I first discovered h's a (ok so then it was just a "friendship" he hadn't reached a point where he would allow me to call it an a) and we talked of d and other things..I did ask if he would like an open marriage....you should have seen his face light up...as if he actually thought I'd be open to that...huh! doubt he'd be open to it if the tables were turned!
anyway...I don't know how to get out of the muck..but I do know that there are some obvious steps that HAVE to happen inorder for you to get anywhere down that path and that is og HAS to go...the longer they stay in contact even if not physical there will still be something pulling at her from him..and when she does finally end contact for good there will be a grieving period over him that may be just as hard for you to deal with as having her still in contact with him.
Quoting eskb: The thing is, though, that there is very little that I could have done over the last 7 months to make her feel more loved by me than I did. Physically, with lots of affectionate touching, with words, with various acts of kindness, etc. I mean, I may have stumbled once or twice, but there is no way that she could not feel loved by me. So it's not that she doesn't know that I love her, it's that she doesn't value it. She doesn't love me much, so she doesn't place a high value on the love I give her. If she did, she wouldn't be so depressed. I mean, for me, everyone in the world could reject me and I would still feel OK, as long as my W and children loved me.
Brian -- The above part in blue is an ASSumption on your part, right? I'm ASSuming that you've made some "logical" leap of thinking...I love w, w doesn't feel loved therefore she must not value my love????
I can only relate this to my own sitch but I can relate to w's reaction here and let me say that the hole that your w feels is likely MUCH MORE LIKELY to be a result of some childhood, family issues than her value for your love. OK, I said that a bit assertively...let me say it differently...my inability to feel "loved" despite my h's love for me has NOTHING to do with the worth of his love and EVERYTHING to do with wounds that I'm still trying to heal from way back when. Is it possible that the same (or similar) is true for your w????
Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
It isn't easy to ride the bunking bronco is it. You just get settled into the saddle and she starts bucking again. The ride will get better and better as she gets the OM out of her head. Be patient with her but not tolerant. She is "talking" a lot about how she feels which is good. It means she is comfortable around you.
I had the same problem with "hanging" on the BB too much. I realized that I felt and acted differently when I was spending time here. More angry, bitter, and depressed than normal. The newcomers area is still difficult as it brings back really bad memories. Stay away.
Believe it or not, I think you sitch will end happily. Her openness and your understanding are a good combination for success. If my sitch had either, it would have improved faster.
Good news, remember we have very similar sitchs, right? At 1:00 on September 8, 2003 I got a real life apology from my W. It was in the form of a song she found that said exactly what she needed to say to me. She was almost as lost as your W is and now loves and appreciates me like never before. This is just a sign that you should be as strong as you have been and success will come your way. Keep positive and take care of you.
Quote: the only thing I can offer is...well at least w is being 'honest' about her feelings...
Yeah, although it seems that she is mainly honest right after I've caught her being dishonest. When she's being dishonest about being in contact with the OG, that's when she's also dishonest about her feelings.
Quote: but I do know that there are some obvious steps that HAVE to happen inorder for you to get anywhere down that path and that is og HAS to go...the longer they stay in contact even if not physical there will still be something pulling at her from him..and when she does finally end contact for good there will be a grieving period over him that may be just as hard for you to deal with as having her still in contact with him.
I hope, hope, hope that the contact has ended forever (as of August 23), especially as I intend to follow through on my ultimatum if it hasn't (and at some point I will be snooping, I'm sure). Maybe the latest display of emotion from her has something to do with the grieving period (Sunday was just over 2 weeks since). I can't help but wonder what our situation would be now if the contact had not restarted. Got to think things would be a lot better now if she hadn't. The grieving period is supposed to take 3-4 weeks. Their contact restarted 4 weeks after the big goodbye in late June, so she "should" have been just about done with that. Maybe if a little more time had passed she wouldn't have chosen to get involved again. Water under the bridge.
Quoting sage: Brian -- The above part in blue is an ASSumption on your part, right? I'm ASSuming that you've made some "logical" leap of thinking...I love w, w doesn't feel loved therefore she must not value my love????
Yes, it's an assumption. I guess I couldn't think of any other reason. I mean, as I'm sure you can imagine, I did everything I could think of to show her how much I loved her. Not just physically, and with words, but also by doing things like cleaning the house, softening my approach with the children, arranging dates, etc. It's a long list. On the one hand, if her son chooses to live with her, she'll "feel" that as being loved, but on the other, all these things I've done she evidently doesn't feel as love. Hey darlin, I didn't make all these changes just to get into your jeans!
Quote: I can only relate this to my own sitch but I can relate to w's reaction here and let me say that the hole that your w feels is likely MUCH MORE LIKELY to be a result of some childhood, family issues than her value for your love. OK, I said that a bit assertively...let me say it differently...my inability to feel "loved" despite my h's love for me has NOTHING to do with the worth of his love and EVERYTHING to do with wounds that I'm still trying to heal from way back when. Is it possible that the same (or similar) is true for your w????
OK, I hadn't thought of that at all. I guess I had a pretty wonderful childhood and don't have many issues related to it, so I never think of such explanations. I guess it's possible that there is something there (her childhood was not as happy as mine), but I don't know. It's hard not to take it personally when she says that she doesn't feel loved.
Quoting tbone:Believe it or not, I think you sitch will end happily.
Good news, remember we have very similar sitchs, right? At 1:00 on September 8, 2003 I got a real life apology from my W. It was in the form of a song she found that said exactly what she needed to say to me. She was almost as lost as your W is and now loves and appreciates me like never before. This is just a sign that you should be as strong as you have been and success will come your way. Keep positive and take care of you.
That is so great, tbone. I'll go check your thread for the details. It is inspirational to see success stories like yours and dcr's. From what I've observed on this BB, there seem to be far more success stories from women whose H's have had A's than from men whose W's have had A's. I hope the similarities in our situations just keep on coming.
In a state of clinical depression, one's ability to feel loved and comforted is very diminished, if not absent.
In deep depression, it can even feel as though you know that the Creator is there, you see evidence of the Creator everyday in other people's lives, but your receiver is broken. You can't even feel God's love at a time when that is desperately.
When you say that you think she doesn't feel loved by you because she doesn't value your love, it only tells me that you could learn a lot about clinical depression--there's lot's of information out there.
Yup, Tal, that jumped out at me too. Brian, her depression very likely has NOTHING to do with your love or lack thereof for her...MANY people with wonderful spouses, who love each other fall into depression...it's a disease, not just an "emotional problem".
CJ was depressed for years (without anyone knowing it, and denying it himself)...he too found a temporary "fix" with OP. But it was illusion, it was based in lies, it was a fiction....he wasn't REAL with her, although I'm sure he felt like the person he WANTED to be.
I'm a little surprised that your W seems to think you'll wait around forever for her. Sort of like if she's willing to give up true love for this "life" so should you? Ugh!
Yet all in all, the signs are good. I just wish somehow the OG would fall face first off of the pedestal she has him on...into a giant pile of stinking doggie doo...I wish she'd SEE what a fiction all of that is. I know it's possible, it happened to CJ.
