It's the difference between being HD and LD. Myself being HD, I have to be shivering with chills from fever before I lose interest in sex. So for us HD's, we can't comprehend losing our desire for sex at the drop of a hat. I think that's what happens for a LD person though. They don't think about sex really much at all, it's more of an after thought for them.
I read No More Mr. Nice Guy and I think it can help. Think of "Nice Guy" as different from nice guy. A nice guy is just nice. A "Nice Guy" might often be genuinely nice, but at least some of the time, he's pretending to be "nice", pretending to have no needs of his own, and pretending he only cares about someone else. It's not real; it's just his way of manipulating people.
And by "his," of course, I mean "my."
NMMNG has a forum under that name. I won't include a link here, but I've been posting in both places and found help in both. One thing we don't do here that the NMMNG forum encourages, for instance, is meeting in real life to form support groups. I suppose they figure it's less problematic to encourage meetings among recovering "Nice Guys" than meetings between sex-starved, heartbroken divorcees of both sexes.
OK, I am thinking about giving my wife the following letter after I have devised a suitable closing. I would appreciate your input on this. There is also a question of timing. She is going out of town for a week Thursday morning with the kids. Before or after?
Anyway, here it is:
Dear Wife,
I have waited too long to write this to you, but it needs to be done. We have a serious hole in our marriage, our sex life. I have been dwelling on this a lot over the past year and I have come to some conclusions. At first, I blamed you for this as you naturally have a lower sex drive than I do, but I have come to realize that a great deal of our situation is my fault alone.
Before I go any further, let me explain something about what sex means to me. I know that for you, sex is the result of feeling connected and things being ok in our relationship. For me, sex is the method of feeling connected. That is of course in addition to the obvious things of enjoying it physically. But, I did not understand how critical the emotional portion of this is to me. That is why being in bed together means more to me than what we do in the shower. Shower sex is almost purely physical, bed sex is much more emotional. When we do not have sex, I don’t feel very connected to you. It is the same as conversation and quality time are for you.
After much reflection, I have begun to realize some things that have crippled our sex life. First, I know that from our wedding night on, you have never been sexually satisfied by me and you do not regard me as a good lover. I understand why you feel like this. I know the issue has not gotten better in 14 years, and you have given up. This is reflected in your attitudes during sex in how you just want to get it over with.
I also realize that the last few years have damaged our emotional connection. I do not feel like you have ever gotten over the porn issue. Again, I understand. I also know that part of your initial attraction to me was the strong personality that I used to have. This was destroyed during my time at company M and afterwards during my partnership with C. I have lost a great deal of my own self respect when I prostituted by integrity for money due to my fear of going broke. I am no longer the strong man you married.
We have also been through four years of cancer treatment with A. That alone is enough to kill almost any marriage as the divorce rate among parents of kids with ALL is 90%. I know our financial situation drags us down as well. This is not what you signed up for when we married. I know my bout with depression also seriously reduced by standing in your eyes. Can’t fault you for that either.
I also believe that we are not very compatible sexually. My sex drive remains at once or twice a day, if we had time etc. I realize that is not really a practical amount, given three children etc, but it is where I am. I feel that your rate for having sex is probably once every month or two. It is no use comparing ourselves to other couples either way on this. I know I offended you initially when I told you how many times per day my friends had sex, but you have also offended me with your return that I am abnormal or perverted because of my drive.
I also feel that you are uninterested in expanding what we do in bed, as that makes you feel as though I am trying to fulfill some sort of pornographic fantasy. Again, given what I have done, I can understand this. We now do fewer things than we did when we were first married. I am not sure the last time we had any form of oral sex. I believe it was sometime before we moved last, so maybe eight years.
I have reached the point where I think it best if we stop having sex or pretending like we might. The rejection I feel both when we don’t have sex and even when we do, has become an anchor for me and a source of intense frustration, which I know you feel. In comparison, how would you feel if I stopped any real efforts at holding conversations with you? I believe the solution is to go to counseling with somebody who is capable of working on this issue with us. However, we can not afford to go until finances change. Hopefully, I will be able to find a better job soon. Since we will most likely have to move when that time comes and who knows how long it will take for the house to sell, we will be more or less separated during that time frame anyway. Stopping sex now will just prepare us for that time.
Once we have re-established ourselves and have some money, we can find a good counselor and see if we can work on these and our other issues so that we can improve our marriage.
NTE - I think it is beautiful. I think you did a great job at expressing your side of the equation, being understanding of her side, not just blaming her....very nicely done.
It is also very loving and mature, no sh*t-slinging, just the facts, ma'am. You did point out a few things to her, but you weren't doing it like "neener neener". You were just direct and honest.
The one thing that stands out though is that you are asking to pull away on the sex and find a counselor, but then what? In other words, I don't see any words about how you would like to truly fix this thing and you will put in 100% effort to do so, or conversely, that you feel this thing is doomed and you are not willing to put in any more effort. Therefore, there is no real ultimatum here nor a declaration to fix it.
I think its ok if you don't feel like working on fixing it and pulling back on the sex. But then...the letter doesn't really say what that means exactly? Your last line suggests "we can work on these and improve our marriage", but there is no oomph in that, no real idea of what that means to you or what it looks like. In other words, you didn't put your foot down and say "if it doesn't improve, I will ask for a divorce".
Maybe you are not ready for that step, but I think it is important to be ready to go that far with it because ... not speaking the word out loud isn't really going to help anything.
DQ, Thanks for the input. I am trying to make sure the overall tone is right, and I am really looking for an ending. This is not an ultimatum letter. At this point I really don't think I would pull the trigger on a divorce, so it is more an attempt at honest communication, a wake up call, and a plea to work together on this.
OK NTE, yes, then the letter is perfect. It is definitely a wake up call, and a plea. And if you aren't ready to really pull the plug and threaten divorce, then you are right not to go there in your letter. I think you've done great.
Do you have anxiety about giving her the letter, or do you think you will feel relief?
Good question. I have some anxiety but I think I will feel much better with everything on the table. My big question now is timing, given she is about to go out of town. Before or after?
Personally, I feel that a week isn't that long and should give you both a chance to decompress from each other and reflect upon the weight of the letter....but I'm not positive on that one. It may seem cold to do it before she leaves. But to be honest with you, from what you describe, you wife is very cold to you anyway and therefore, I doubt she will have a problem with getting it before she leaves. I feel bad for "judging" her when we only have your side of the story but - yikes - everything you describe, she just doesn't have any warmth in her for you at all. And for that reason, before she leaves seems good to me.
I hope I am not wrong. I would hate to be party to another woman's pain, if it will be painful for her. But on the other hand, I do truly hope you and she can work it out, and it will likely require some pain to do so!
The only paragraph that I would change is that "stop having sex" statement. IMO it might sound better to say "back off of sex", take the pressure off each other. Then if the time feels right, we may find comfort in each other's arms while we are working through these difficult times we are going through.
On the timing, if she will have time alone on her trip, away from the kids. She would have time to reflect on what you have said. Otherwise wait until she gets back to deliver the message.
Cinco
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