I didn't say it WAS "emotional abuse"; I said I was afraid that a good attorney could try to make a CASE for it. I just don't like giving the other side ANY ammo with which to fight the betrayed spouse.
If you do have this "back channel" of communication to her, via your personal page, and you know she sees it and she doesn't KNOW that you know . . . hmmmm, you might be able to use that to your advantage.
Q for the group:
Is it "pursuing" if the other person doesn't know that you know that they're getting the message?
If you know your wife is insecure in the past, then please listen for a moment: insecurity does not mean love. It is not derived from love. Jealousy does not mean love, either.
Therefore, the stuff you are doing in order to make your wife insecure, is not going to make her "realize" her love for you. It may seem like love when she is stalking you on-line all day, but it isn't really. In fact, it may make her more determined to get with the OM so she can throw it in your face to "pay you back" for the things you are doing online (this is how many insecure people think.)
The route you are going is not likely to take you to the place you really want to be.
That's just my two cents. I hope you will listen. I know it feels good to think "hey, she's watching me, she must still have some feelings for me". But really, that just isn't the way it is.
I know this is nothing like your sitch but just to give you an idea of what I am saying...
I used to date a guy that was crazy jealous and insecure. We only dated for a few months. At the time it didnt bother me that much because we were just dating, nothing serious. But when we broke up I was a bit sad because I did like him. So I updated my on-line profile knowing he would check it out, and I put things in there that would make him jealous, hoping it would cause him to call me.
Well, months later, I was over him, dating someone else, I had kind of forgotten about him. Then he contacted me out of the blue with a question about something, so we had a chance to talk.
In our talk, he revealed that he was seeing someone else. I was happy for him and I was seeing someone, too. When I told him that, he said "great, thanks, I wish you wouldn't have told me that". I'm like "what? You are dating someone to, what's the big deal?" Then he tried to explain to me that the jealousy doesn't have anything to do with his feelings for me. The jealousy was all about HIM and his own mind and feelings of inadequacy. It didn't matter that he didn't love me or want to see me anymore, it was all about his own inner problems and insecurites.
So...do you want your wife to love you and show love for you, or do you want to just stir up her insecurites and feelings of inadequacy? Because the latter two is all you are doing.
Is it "pursuing" if the other person doesn't know that you know that they're getting the message?
Puppy
If she knows, then it's pursuing in my book, but I'm not sure about your question. My guess would be that it's not pursuing in that case, but isn't part of pursuing also your intention/motivations also? I mean shouldn't Scott be GALing and doing whatever to improve himself rather than try to make his W jealous or whatever? But that is interesting; would there be a way to use that info in a positive way, not just to make her jealous? Is that what you're thinking? Karen
Is it "pursuing" if the other person doesn't know that you know that they're getting the message?
Puppy
If she knows, then it's pursuing in my book, but I'm not sure about your question. My guess would be that it's not pursuing in that case, but isn't part of pursuing also your intention/motivations also? I mean shouldn't Scott be GALing and doing whatever to improve himself rather than try to make his W jealous or whatever? But that is interesting; would there be a way to use that info in a positive way, not just to make her jealous? Is that what you're thinking? Karen
Yes. I'm thinking "What if he posts something POSITIVE on his personal page, about how much he misses her or whatever?"
Ok, now I understand. Yeah, is that pursuing or not? Maybe he could do that in a maybe more subtle (maybe too subtle?) way of changing his status to Married from single? Or something like that? I would be careful not to be flirting or anything like that, though. I don't think that will help in the long-term. But I do think Scott, you should try to work on GALing to improve yourself, not just doing/posting things to get her interest back. I know in the beginning I did a lot of GALing and 180s and my main focus was to get my H back, but I think it is better when your focus is on you instead of just trying to get the WAS back. I think that's a process though and you get better at that as time goes on. Karen
Ok guys, thanks for the advice and replies, but I think there is some misunderstand here. It is hard to throw all this into one little thread so thats probably partly why.
Let me try to clear a couple things up.
PAST - We separated in the past and we were headed for divorce very fast. I changed around my profile online and just assumed it was time to move on. I was posting some stuff like certain songs about relationships and talking to people in a positive way. I was GAL but kind of in the open. My wife was watching what I was doing then. Once she saw that I was serious about moving on and I was talking to a few girls she started to pursue me and called me. She tried to get me jealous by telling me a whole slew of stuff about how she did not want to be in a relationship and how she was going to go out and see younger guys because they make her feel hot and wanted and how she just wanted to have sex and fun. She started going into details and I just basically validated her and told her if that's what will make her happy she should do it. I told her I was just going to move on and I was even thinking about moving out of state. She flipped. She started going more into details about these guys and all kinds of rambling. I ended up having to tell her I could not talk to her any more because of her state. She ended up texting me and to make a long story short we ended up back together. There was an OM too.
The thing that screwed us up this last time was my hypoglycemia, which I was not aware of at the time. that has been resolved, but wife is scared and does not trust that the changes will stay which is understandable.
CURRENT - Similar situation. We are separated, there is another man and she is set on divorce.
I went dark on her and started the online posting. Now here is where there is a lot of misunderstanding I think.
1. I am GAL and doing a lot of stuff to stay busy especially with the kids. I talk about this online. I have old friends that I am back in touch with and a few female friends. Some are married some are single. Everything is positive and upbeat and "as if".
2. I am not being vindictive, trying to get her angry or anything like that. Since I am dark, this is the ONLY way that she can see what I am doing. Well, that and talking to the kids.
3. She does NOT know that I know she accesses my stuff. She has no idea adn yes this is a good advantage to have.
4. She has been to my page obsessively. I mean the past three days especially. She has been on there a LOT. Off and on ALL DAY and night. This started after I started updating my pages more often and blogging more. She is accessing everything I post multiple times.
5. In the past, right before she called me to try and make me jealous she tried to talk to me about our situation and saying some of the stuff she has been saying now about wanting a divorce, how it's best for both of us, how she is too independent now and on and on. I simply told her I agreed with her and she should get the divorce ASAP. I even sent her the attorney info. This sort of took her by surprise because it was a 180 from what I would have normally done. THAT is what I think really pushed her to call me and have 2nd thoughts in the past.
6. After we got back together I told her that I was checking out a lot of the songs she had on her music account and I said it really made me think about her a lot. She had our wedding song and songs about breakups, getting back together, relationships etc. She said that she was checking out my pages to and reading what I was posting because she missed me and wanted to make sure I was OK. She admitted this to me.
7. My wife probably needs me to reassure her somehow that I will not leave her for some other woman and that I can have a perfectly healthy normal friendship with women without her having to worry about me abandoning her. I am guessing she needs this because of the way she acts and how jealous she gets if I talk to a woman. And she is the one that is actually cheating so go figure.
8. Right before I changed my pages I did have some positive stuff on there about me missing her. There was a song from 3 doors down about a breakup and I posted a song that I wrote that is actually called "Missing Her". She saw that and I know that she read it too. I eventually removed all of that when I decided to start acting "as if" on my pages. I removed all mention of her and just stated posting GAL stuff and positively making friends, chit chat, innocent stuff.
Now, like I said, it was a test to see her reactions. And when I say a test I mean that posting stuff was a test not GAL. The GAL is real and I'm doing everything I'm talking about I just was not talking about it in the open before.
9. She has never tried to screw me over. She has not demanded alimony and has been more than reasonable with the kids money. She has never ever stopped me from seeing the kids and told me she would never keep them from me. She only blurted out about alimony and other crap when she was angry when i confronted her about the gambling. It was just her talking crap though out of anger. I just want to be clear that its not like she went to an attorney and tried to screw me. This is exactly why she wanted a no fault divorce. She just wanted to get divorced and nothing more.
10. Now this is getting into cognitive behavior. My wife has a real problem with reading into things too much and letting them stew around in her head and contemplating things that might happen in the future that would NEVER happen. I wanted to see if i could get her to sort of face that. For example, one of the women I talk to is happily married. I chatted with her a bit and I saw that my wife was really all over those posts off an on. This also caused her to mention to our friend that "he is talking to some girl" so she most likely thought that I had some kind of interest in this woman and who knows what else was going through her head. Well, I ended up posting some stuff about her "husband" and I and she followed up about her husband. I'm friends with her husband. My wife had no idea she was married. Once that was posted my wife hardly accessed those posts again. She probably realized... opps I over reacted. (hmmm ironically I could be doing that very thing right in that description ..lol - I'm sure you get what i mean though.)
I'm just not sure what to do next here. I have a couple issues which are:
1. This letter for the attorney that she needs me to write. I'm not sure how to handle this. I could stall and say I need to ask my attorney about it, but that will only give me a week or two. I could say that I don't want a divorce and simply tell her that this is all on her end and she would have to go find another attorney. She has no money, but she may be able to borrow it. I could write the letter and let her go through the divorce as planned.
2. For the online stuff - I can crank it up a bit and talk to more people, post more GAL stuff, lightly (innocently) flirt and watch her reactions. OR - I could start to tone it back a bit and post stuff about missing her, mistakes I've made, forgiveness and I can match up a lot of emotional songs to that type of posting too. I'm just not sure what to do.
Yes, I would rather work at it positively if i could. The jealousy and mystery (I would say more mystery) got her attention and drew her into my posts and pages. She is now watching everything I do so now I know she will read anything I post. However, I don't want to "show my cards" as sg mentioned in another thread. I guess I have to be careful.
I could even change the conversations to talk about broken relationship, missing her and what went wrong and what I was doing to change etc. For example. I could post blogs about what I'm going through and people could comment on it. I know she would read every word of it just be seeing how she is reading stuff now. So again, this is an advantage, but like I said I don't want her to think I'm just posting that stuff for her to read. Really anything I post is the truth though, I mean I am GAL and have been talking to people and I really do miss her terribly and don't want a divorce. What do you guys suggest?
3. I think she went out with this guy tonight. I caught her leaving when i dropped D off and she was all dolled up. I just wish the OM was not in the picture. It sucks because I have no idea how much of an influence the guy is on her. But then again, she is really all over my stuff online so there must be a lot of confusion on her part though she is VERY good at hiding her emotions.
4. I wrote her a LONG letter that has a lot of stuff that was left unsaid. It's like 20 pages ling and I validate a lot of what she has told me were problems in our relationship. It's deep and emotional. Its not pleading or anything like that, but it is from the heart and covers pretty much everything about our relationship. I was thinking about giving this to her with a book I created for her for our 10th anniversary. Our ann was last month, There was no mention of it between us. I worked for a bout a year on a 400 page book that includes pictures for the last ten years, poems, songs and all kinds of quotes and sentimental copy. Its really detailed and took a really long time to create, Its professionally printed full color 400 pages. It includes so many memories of our life.
Do you think I should give her the letter and the book? I know she would have to read them, because I know how she is and I know that it would have to have an affect on her because there is just so many memories and good times in it. Right now she seems to be focused on all negatives. I figure maybe that will get her to see some of what she is really giving up.
My gut says to give it to her, but i still want to get some other input on it. We had a communication problem for the last couple of years and I really opened up in the letter and said a lot of stuff that I know she wanted and needed to hear in the past.
I planned to go and work on the house and act as if and positive and then once I could actually get her to have a normal conversation without being angry I'd leave her the book and letter. Like I said, we are not talking now and the only way she hears from me is from the kids, from what I post online or from something like this letter..
- Scott
Original Thread Part 2 M-37 W-34 M 10 T 14 2 Ds 13
It sounds like she may have a history of being influenced by other men. If not this one then another...
If your W is anything like my H, sentimental letters or books may feel like pursuit. If you do give something like this make sure you are doing it not to "win her back," but as a goodbye gift. And my own personal experince has been that these types of gifts have less affect when a spouse is in the "angry phase." Just be a distant friend while your spouse is in the angry stage. First step is to let that die out and replace with good impressions and positive interactions....
I personally like having my own lawyer and the best (definitely better than my H's!). I also believe in stalling and taking time on things. Hey I'm too busy GALing to get things done right away! Assure her you are working on it, will have it done and gosh you both are going to be super happy eventually.... then I just took my sweet time on everything...
You should have NO expectations. Consider you W Gone Gone GONE!!!
There is no arriving, ever. It is all a continual becoming.
I've been thinking more and more about how I should manage my pages/blog online. I know music and lyrics have been helpful for both of us in expressing emotions/feelings that we were not comfortable saying face to face.
I could start posting some music that relates to my feelings.
For example - Right Here from Stained:
I know I’ve been mistaken But just give me a break And see the changes that I’ve made I’ve got some imperfections But how can you collect them all And throw them in my face
But you always find a way To keep me right here waiting You always find the words to say To keep me right here waiting If you chose to walk away I’d still be right here waiting Searching for the things to say To keep you right here waiting
I hope you’re not intending To be so condescending It’s as much as I can take And you’re so independent You just refuse to bend So I keep bending till I break
But you always find a way To keep me right here waiting You always find the words to say To keep me right here waiting If you chose to walk away I’d still be right here waiting Searching for the things to say To keep you right here waiting
I’ve made a commitment I’m willing to bleed for you I needed fulfillment I found what I need in you Why can’t you just forgive me I don’t want to relive all the mistakes I’ve made along the way
But I always find a way To keep you right here waiting I always find the words to say To keep you right here waiting
But you always find a way To keep me right here waiting We always find the words to say To keep me right here waiting If I chose to walk away Would you be right here waiting Searching for the things to say To keep me right here waiting ---
What do you think, do you think that would push or do you think it would pull? I know from the past it really seemed to pull her in and get her to re-think what she was doing. She seems way more set on divorce now though and this OM is right in the picture.
I know one of my friends posted a comment to something I wrote that got me kind of annoyed. It was something along the lines of she's not worth my time and I should just walk away and not look back etc. I did not respond to it yet. I almost replied something nasty, but then I thought maybe I'll just delete it. Now though I think it might be an opportunity for me to defend my W in public.
This is like the only avenue of communication I have right now with her and in a way I think it's good because it's non-confrontational, she can absorb it all on her own time, she can go and re-read it any time and she does not have to respond to any of it. She does not even know that I know she is on my sites.
I really want her thinking about me a lot instead of focusing on this OM. I know by her actions that she is thinking about me and reading every single day. Not one day goes by that she is not looking at my stuff and most days it's all through the day. Right when she gets up, when she comes home, before she goes to bed, sometimes in the middle of the night etc.
So - I have this opportunity in front of me now to show her my real feelings. In reality, I can talk and pretty much guarantee that she will listen and I don't have to worry about how she will respond because she can't respond.
I also have the opportunity to talk to other people and have her "overhear" the conversation so to speak. This can also be advantageous especially like the above comment about defending her.
So how can I best use all this to my advantage beyond the typical GAL type posts especially in relation to this OM?
- Scott
Original Thread Part 2 M-37 W-34 M 10 T 14 2 Ds 13
So how can I best use all this to my advantage beyond the typical GAL type posts especially in relation to this OM?
]Well, I do think if I were you I would consider changing your status from single for one thing. I don't really think that is a good idea; yes, it might make your W jealous but how does that help your R? I don't really think it does. Jealousy and love are two different things I think. Plus, that could give her legal ammo if it comes to that, and that's something you should try to avoid.
My thoughts on reading your thoughts are that maybe you should be working on detaching more? You seem so focused on your W and making her do what you want. I think one of the major principles in DB is changing yourself rather than the other person. Have you read or reread DR recently? I would suggest that definitely. Anything Puppy has suggested is good advice too of course. Karen
It's really kind of hard to detach. She is on my mind all the time regardless of what I am doing. I keep busy and am active. Its also kind of hard to DB and NOT think about her especially while reading DB and DR in between. Of course I am focused on her, she's my wife, the mother of my children, my best friend. She is going through something internally and I'm really worried about her.
Also keep in mind that we have no contact. We don't talk so my online posts are really the only way she has access to anything I am doing.
I'll tell you flat out regardless of what it says in DR or what others have posted on here. If I did not post online and if I simply stayed totally dark on her she would just get pushed right into this OM. I already saw that happening in the past and the distance that was approaching fast when I "wasn't doing anything". I'm all for GAL and working on me, which I am, but I'm also committed to working to save our friendship and marriage too.
I know that DB is about changing yourself and not the other person. I'm not trying to change her. Hell, she is in some kind of funk that has turned her into another person. I'm just simply posting for my sanity as well as to post some stuff that she might absorb and stew on. I know just by how she has talked to me in the past that she is seeing everything negatively, she is focused on past negatives. I simply post about positives, the future, what I'm doing etc.
Like I said - I can "talk" now and know that she will listen even though it's indirectly. That is an advantage in my situation. Without my online posts and other pages she would basically be ignoring me and moving on with this OM and have zero contact with me.
- Scott
Original Thread Part 2 M-37 W-34 M 10 T 14 2 Ds 13
