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I'm going to put something like that in the letter I write. If we seperate, and she can give up OM, really give him up, then ask for retrouvaille.

I will tell her that if she can't give him up, then just divorce me. I will not divorce her.

Not too long ago, with me telling her that what she is doing is wrong, she told me, "Then divorce me and make it right." I think it was in the beginning of May. Big arguement.

I'm going to remind her about that and let HER make it right.



I basically told her this again last Sunday. She told me she knows what she has to do, she just didn't know HOW to do it.

But we don't believe cheaters, right?

It could be that I am letting her moods effect me.

Again. I am just at the end of my rope. I just don't see any intention to end things with him. Not the way she should be at least.

Am I looking for someone to tell me otherwise? Not sure.

A rough draft.



I had to put this in a letter to you. We have been in this situation for quite a while now. By this time, I am not sure if you have actually signed papers for the apartment, yet. At this point in my life, I am truly tired and beaten down. I have tried to keep our family together for as long as I could.

You have tried to do the opposite.

I do not want to be a part time parent. You seem determined to be just that. No matter how you try to say it, that is what we are going to be. Part time parents.

I love you. I have always loved you. I will always love you and I will always hold hope for us.

But what I can't do is keep believing you when you say that you intend to end things with Tom.

A separation for us should be to see if you would miss me or miss us. If you are separating and continuing your relationship with Tom, then there is no point. You will explore deepening your relationship with him only. You don't think of me at all. My feelings do not matter to you anymore.

If that is what your heart tells you, then so be it.

If you can't give up Tom, then do us both a favor and just divorce me. Just pull the trigger and put us both out of our misery.

This is not truly what I want. You have to know that. I would like to attend something called a Retrouvaille Weekend. Some states make divorcing couples attend before starting the process.

I will help you move out. I will be there for you if you need me to. There is nothing for us to fight over. You know me, who I am and what I am about. But if you keep seeing Tom, our friendship is over. A true friend would not do what you have done to me. We will keep in touch concerning the kids. If you want to talk to me, you will have to contact me, because I will not be contacting you.

You are the one who I chose to grow old with. To watch our children grow up. To dance with our grandchildren.



Just something put together. I'm sure it will be tweaked.

Thoughts so far?

She said "divorce me and make it right" because then she can say you BOTH wanted this and BOTH realized that it was best. She wants to pretend you have already worked on things and tried and have come to this realization that it won't work. Problem is she knows you both haven't tried together yet. If you divorce her, in her mind she will believe you both agreed.

She really may mean what she says about knowing she has to cut ties with OM but doesn't know how to do it. I was there. She feels she loves him, she is addicted to what he gives her.....it is hard to go through withdrawel and hard to see someone that you feel you love hurt. That is what she is going through. Help her through this by saying you know it is very hard, but you need her to do this.

I don't believe the whole she needs to leave to see if she misses you. I don't believe that at all. She will miss the OM right now, not you. That's just the way it is right now. What she needs to decide is whether she stays with you and tries her hardest and gives it her all, or if she divorces you and goes with OM. Basically there are only two choices. If she needs time alone...she can have time alone at the house you both live in with the kids and can stay away from OM. YOu can be there to help with the pain or give her space or whatever, but she doesn't need to leave to figure all that out. If she leaves the home, I believe she will be done. It is soooo hard for her to leave as it is...if she jumps that hurdle she won't come back. That's my thoughts anyway.

The letter.....I would adjust it according to what I just said and I wouldn't go on and on about how you will be there to help her move, etc. NOOOOOOO! Remember, she wants you to make this easy on her. Do not.

Yep.. he is her dopamine at the moment .

No point in dropping your bomb aka an Ultimatum and then sending the I will always love you.. help you stuff too ! It's like telling a kid No.. and then saying maybe later !

I am not a big advocate of these sort of letters and things btw.. I mean.. just tell it like it is and let it be.

You have been walking on the shells lately btw.. and it aint Easter.. Didnt she just throw away a letter not too long ago ?

AT

H4H, I am here for ya. You know I am going through the same thing right now. There is no bigger pain in the world. Not just because your W is leaving, but because chose to put your entire heart into and fight for her. You have made yourself as vulnerable as possible in the process and she just keeps kicking you. I don't know what you should do. I chose to leave my home because I couldn't handle the PA anymore and in my state I couldn't legally just kick her out. Your only choice is to go dark. She knows you are a great gut so what good does showing her do. Plus its not working. In reality she is going to have to leave you and crash by herself or with OM. Maybe then in the future she will realize what she has done and come back with remorse. I wish you the best.

wdid, I understand what you are trying to tell me. On my way home from work just now, I was thinking that I will give an ultimatum if she does leave. For now, papers are not signed. Still. I will continue to talk to her. Last night would have not been good as she was in a mood.

I forgot to also mention that I realized her friend came for her monthly visit. I think over night. Small part for the mood. The other part was seeing the financial position we are in. Together. I know with what she bought on Sunday, she was going to be a little short. She probably thought she could just transfer a few $'s from the joint account. When she saw the balance, I guess she felt like she had to do something. He must have given her his ATM card sometime in the beginning of the year.

Other than just keep on asking her and talking to her, I don't see how she will change the course she is on. If I have to do that, then I just need to suck it up and continue what I have been doing. Even I have mentioned that if she leaves, she is so stubborn, I don't think she will admit wanting to come back.

I have thought about offering my help in her ending things with OM, but I have no idea how to offer it. It sounds so surreal. I guess it will be through honest talks with her.

On the leaving, maybe trying to sit down with her and looking at it financially. I really don't know. Trying an in home seperation? I move into another room.

The key is getting her to end her R with OM. If not possible, then I can't do it anymore. How to convince her of what she knows she should do. To get her to actually do it?

I don't know.

Tom, yeah, too much emotion. I was just getting things out. Don't know if it is the best course of action to take. I don't believe she has thrown any of my letters away. I have taken some back with out her remembering. It was all the cards I have given her recently. About 8 of them that I thought she threw out.

She didn't.

If we fall apart, do I want this to go nice or go ugly. I have always been the "get better results with honey" kind of guy. It seems like if I still hold hope, which I do, then I have to maintain some friendship with her. I just may not mention any friend stuff at all. Nor mentioning the helping and so on.

It will be my actions. I suppose it will just have to be a conversation. If she is unable to end it with OM, then my stance will be for her to just divorce me. She will know that it is not what I want to happen, but no choice if she can't end it. It sounds like a bluff. Saying something that you really don't want to happen. But I will accept it if that is what she does.

Thanks, James. I know your sitch is hard, too.

I just feel myself coming up to the proverbial fork in the road. A place that I did not choose to be at. None of us did. I was tempted to leave a couple of times. The first time, I had packed all my things, hidden it all in our closet and under our bed. Prayed to God to show me the way. I did not want to move out. I had to find an opportunity to explain to my girls.

That was a Saturday. Sunday morning she felt sick. She went to the clinic and I went to church with my girls. It was God giving me my opportunity to talk to the girls with out her there. Just after church, I called to check on her, she was in the emergency room with the stroke.

God told me I was NOT going to leave and I obeyed him.

God spoke to her as well. She had her ministroke last month on a Tuesday. Her apartment was to be ready that Saturday even though she still had not signed a lease. She was supposed to sign that weekend.

But like I told Kat, she is deaf.

H4H

Hang in there bud. Keep the faith. Many of us seem to be heading somewhere we didn't want to get to, but maybe this is just another bump in the long journey. Whatever happens, keep positive and help yourself.

I truly felt this coming from her, btw.

Got home tonight. Spent some time with my D's. Made some supper. They have been making plans with the wife to go swimming or to Spectrum. I was not invited by wife, so I won't go. Nothing from her all day. Girls asked me, but I told them they could just go.

Spoke to D's about them moving. I asked how they felt about it. D6 motioned a sad face. D11 said sad and excited at the same time. New place. Like living in a hotel. They just love hotels. Sad for me, though. I told them that I want them to be happy, and if they feel something, they have to speak up. D11 says, "Momma said it was going to be an adventure."

D11 then says that D6 told wife that she would try it and if she didn't like it, she would move back with me. D6 corrects her quickly, "Nah ah, momma said that I couldn't. She said that we have to stay with her. She said that kids belong with their momma's."

I have to correct them and tell them that that is not true. Kids DON'T just have to be with the momma's. I told them again that I just want them happy and tell them that momma and I have not really talked much about it, but we are going to split the time between us. You are not going to just live with momma, but you are also going to be living with me here at home. We just don't know the type of schedule yet.

They are ok. I know wife has spoken to them. I don't want to try to work their emotions, either. Have to be careful. I did tell them that if they weren't happy with anything, that they have to speak up. "But you have to be happy too, daddy" says D11. "I don't have anything to be happy about. I just want you guys to be ok. Ok?" Yes, daddy.

Wife comes home. I am in bedroom putting away clothes. I come out and she says hello. I say, "Hey". No other words between us. She tends to puppies outside for a bit and then tells girls to get ready. No invite from roomie. Yet. D6 ask if I'm going. I say, "No, ya'll go have fun."

Later, roomie goes to room, changes and checks her account online. I had passed by to get to closet to change. She asks, "Do you want to go?" I look at her and say, "No, its ok, ya'll can go." She say, "We can go?" I kind of ignore her.

I WANTED to tell her that considering how she acted towards me yesterday, I thought it best to keep my distance. She didn't really want me to go anyway, did she. I decided not to say anything.

She goes to bathroom, comes out and finds girls fighting. Somebody has something that belongs to the other. The one it belongs to didn't want it until the other one wanted it.

As usual.

D6 crying. D11 mad. Wife announces that they don't have to go if they keep fighting. I go consol D6. D11 goes outside in a huff. D6 still crying that she is going to get even with D11. I am consoling and telling her not to cry. Going out door, wife gives me a quick glance and says they'll be back. She has that look. Can't explain it. Sarcastic? The "I know you just want sympathy" look? The "fine, stay home" look?

Have you ever seen a movie that has a Latina woman say, "Oh no you di int?" and then they step back and fold their arms. Their mouth in a crooked pucker? Kind of like that.

I say Ok.

Will see what kind of conversation I initiate tonight. IF I do. I want to mention the change of attitude from Tuesday's hug night to yesterday's coldness. Why? And let her know that last night, with her squirming, she made me feel like she thought she was cheating on OM or something. Maybe bring up the part time parent thing. I still want to ask her what scares her. What she's afraid of. Why she needs to put up a wall with me. Protect herself from what?

Could I really make things worse? Doesn't feel like it.