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Nit picking huh Phil... I don't agree at all, it's your world so think what you would like.

How about this, you tell us how you want to do this since you seem to feel you have all of the answers here. Not for nothing but this is a DB website dedicated to putting the DB techniques into practice in order to try and save your marriage.

How about a list of all of the DB principles that you have applied so far? I would love to here exactly which of the steps you have taken to work on your marriage and yourself.

It is not nit picking. It is concern because you suck at follow through on things that you yourself say you need to do. Nit picking would be telling you you are doing it wrong. Your not, your just not doing it at all.

If you want me to sit here and pat you on the back for screwing up, just say so and I will remove myself from any input to you. I post to you because it is pretty clear to me that you need folks telling you where you are making mistakes. You can take that advice and do as you wish with it. If you expect me to stop advising you on what steps to take and merely wipe your nose, pat your ass and send you back in there, you got the wrong guy.

Do you want to do this or not Phil? Do you want to stop having to kneel at your bed and cry? Do you want to be able to hold your head up again and try and have your family back? Do you want to actually put forth the effort that you say you want to or not?

For heavens sake make up your mind. Shitt or get off the pot so to speak. It is time for you to quit making excuses and start implementing some changes in YOUR lifestyle and techniques because they are simply not working.



Ian

Ian, is your wife home with you?

Hmmm Mass Skippers.... Moral implecations. Looks like my wife skipped Mass this weekend too.

Speaking of Mass. Her Godmother was in mass. The cousin came up to me and asked how I was doing. I said terrible what do you think. I said you know your cousin head strong. Then the Godmother chimed in and said it takes two. I said I know that I'm not claiming I was perfect. However I am claiming to try anything to fix the mess we are in and she doesn't want any part of it. She said a little to late too little. I said yes maybe but I'm still trying where she isn't even willing to try and never tried. Then she said well she doesn't even talk to me. I said well join the club she doesn't talk to me either. She is pushing everyone good out of her life. The Godmother started welling up. I said really just pray for us.

I also stopped by my other Aunt and Uncles after lunch. They are the only ones from her side of the family that have reached out to me and asked how I was. What I was up too. We hope you guys get back together. Etc...

They told me about the picnic. They said it wasn't anything great I didn't miss anything and Unc kept saying it wasn't the same with me there. Yep, good ol life of the party Phil.

Unc told me stories of how his SIL almost got thrown out of his house when they came an visited them. He said she had a temper and would through tantrums so it's no wonder your wife acts the same. She is her Mother. She had a great teacher.

Then my Aunt started telling me how she through a tantrum yesterday at the party because our son had gone out of her site for an instant. He was with his grandfather. She was spazzing out and thought that someone took him.

Moral implications.... Hmmmmmmm

Feelings..... hmmmmmm.... Not according to the CCC 2385.

Divorce is immoral also because it introduces disorder into the family and into society. This disorder brings grave harm to the deserted spouse, to children traumatied by the separation of their parents and often torn between them, and because of its contagious effect which makes it truly a plague on society.

Hmmmmmmmmm well God lets see I don't have those feelings for my spouse anymore because they did this and that to me. Blah blah blah... Well why did they do this or that? Well basically because I was a spoiled brat and did what I wanted and it was never good enough, then I just fell out of love. Then I decided I was going to justify my actions and play the victim to make myself look good in the situation.

Yeah, ok come right in....

LETS SEE IAN. I SAID EVERYTIME I TRY TO IMPLEMENT THE ADVICE I GET ON THIS BOARD IT BLOWS UP IN MY FACE. Then I have trouble handling my emotions because of the mixed signals, etc... and then I'll say something that she misinterprets and all hell breaks loose.

I leave her alone. I do not bother with her. I do not call her. I do not ask about her wear abouts or what she is up too. She does not talk to me. I let her come and do laundry as she pleases. I try to accomodate her with the children at every given moment. Being nice to her. Staying sober. This has worked.

Setting schedules, asking to stay out of the house. Asking her to call me before she arrives at the house to do laundry. Asking her to spend time with me. Asking her to talk to me. This has not worked. Telling her I'm going to refi. Telling her she is not on her own. I pay for her car, insurance, etc... Then she says she is going to file for child support. If she wanted to file for child support she's knows I would put the hammer done. So it's threats. I get to speak with her in the most inopportune times. She is either too tired from work, in a hurry to go to work, or too busy running off doing something. TOO BUSY RUNNING! She just wants to run...

Still exchanging I love you's. However now all the affection is gone. There are no hugs either initiated by me or her. She doesn't give me the cheek anymore. Why, because I tried to instill things she doesn't want.

She is going around telling everyone that I abused her. When in fact it is the other way around. Yes I have struck back, and I'm very sorry for it. It was in self defense, other times it was just me snapping. You know I was about 240 and she was 110, if I would have hit her she would have been in the hospital. She would scream in my face, and verbally abuse the hell out of me. She would hit me all the time.

My lifestyle has changed. I don't act like an 18 year old drinking my beers and hiding them from mommy. Now I still consider myself to be a social drinker that sometimes let the alcohol get the best of me. Ok, who doesn't? So I totally took that part of the equation out of my life.

When she would verbally abuse me I would call her the B word. I called her that way too much. Yeah the marriage has been on the rocks because that is how she played the game. Her way or the high way. Her rules, but her rules only apply to me not her.

There was no maturity on her part to give me an intervention because she thought I would walk out. More of her trying to justify. All of her self esteem was destroyed, because she let people get to her. Her role models like her sister and her friends filled her head up with so much crap there is no penatration.

No maturity on her part right now to talk to me about anything civil. Go with the flow. Well the flow sucks. She has no plan. She has no future. She is playing the victim now. She thought I was going to kill her if she left. She thought I was going to stalk her. None of these things came true. Honestly if she says those things about me then the woman never knew me.

Her mother taught her everything she knows. Throw a tantrum and you will get your way. She does it now. So I might have finally learned not to react to it.

Your advice isn't advice. It's a video game. You try and take the controls. I'm on advice freaking overload.

I was overwelmed. I'm getting better. Yes I still knelt and prayed after Mass and lost it saying the rosary. I asked for forgiveness of wrongs I did against my family and my spouse.

Todays readings were about the flesh. Well isn't that what we all do. Sorry.... I'm going to have to stand by the Church on this one. She is out of control, where I used to be out of control. However I never abandoned my family. I was out of control because she tried to control me on every single thing. She nagged, b|tched, and complained about everything. If I walked crocked. If I breathed her air wrong. If I stepped on a crack, didn't kill a bug right, didn't install something right, missed a spot cutting grass. I heard about it all....

Phil,
You are having a bad day...
And I am sorry you feel the way you do.
But as my Grandmother used to say...
Nobody stands on a white sheet, which basically means, let he who has not sinned cast the first stone...

Please stop throwing stones.

I hope your day got better....

(((((hugs)))))

Your dead wrong here Phil. You have the inate ability to twist things into what works for you. You do it with your wife all the time. It won't work on me. You keep saying you are on advice overload yet up to this point you haven't taken the advice given. You continually try and do all you can to sabotage yourself and blame those here for your failures. For a guy who is a self proclaimed perfectionist, you don't do it very well.



Nope, and a big part of why is because I was just as foolish as you for a long time and didnt put the actions needed in. Way to prove my point Phil. Maybe next time read up on me before you speak. I am one of those posters fortunate enough to be able to post to people based on my own failures and mistakes that I learned to regret.

You think your the first to think he knows what is best, your not. You think your the first to believe he can fix it on his own, your not. You think your the first to use your intelligence to deflect reality, your not. I have said to you before that you and I have a lot in common but you don't HEAR the message.





Phil, lets call a spade a spade here. You my dear sir are completely full of [censored]. When have you tried to implemenet and actually given it any significant chance to work? You have not gone more than a day without contact and if you read back through your threads you will clearly see this.

You initiate contact constantly and when she is the initiator you make it last way longer than it should.




I don't even know how to respond to this part. When do you leave her alone for any period of time? When do you not bother her? When do you not call her? And most importantly, how is this working? Oh, and by the way, staying sober is supposed to be for you.

Mr. Holy church roller should know that the alcoholism, name calling of the wife, constant blaming, and rudeness to others won't open the pearly gates anytime soon right? Not for nothing but Rosary beads do not give you a free pass to be a prick.




One last thing and I will bid you a fond ado.... Why do you want this marriage back? You complain about absolutely everything and you make it seem like you were completely miserable, I don't understand what you see that you want back here?


Ian

Ian,

Don't go away mad, just go away. You think you are helping me because you have failed. You say I'm walking the same shoes as you.

If anybody is rude it be you. Name calling mud slinging and constantly trying to insult my intelligence.

Maybe I was completely miserable. Maybe we were miserable together. You know they say misery loves company. Well now she has found misery some where else. She is trying to justify her actions of abandoning the marriage.

Ian, seriously I don't care to read your sitch. I don't care to read anybody's sitch. It the same bull crap in a different bag.

It is her decision to make. BTW I'm sorry you failed. However you can't push your ideas on me now.

I was told in the beginning to not to go dark. Persue a little, but then she was so hot and cold. The dynamics between us have been so bad that there was a need for change. She has made that change. I want her back. She wants nothing to do with me. She comes close, but then pushes away. Maybe out of fear. Maybe out of immaturity. Maybe she does have an illness. I can't fix her, I can only fix myself. Then maybe she might like what I fixed.

Day to day interaction. YES FOR THE ONE HUNDREDTH TIME. I WANT TO SEE MY KIDS EVERYDAY!



BND, I don't think this is a bad day. Yes I had anxiety at 5:30 because I was thinking she would be here soon to pick up the kids. Then she calls me at 5 to 6 and asks if they can stay longer because she wants to go to the store.

This is completely different behavior from her again. She doesn't want to be around the kids. This is nothing like her. She would not go on dates with me because she didn't want to be away from the kids. She would never dump the kids on someone else so that she could go and have fun.

Ian, you have your own issues. Go work on them. You either have a zero attention span or you fail to know how to read. I said about ten times. Don't bother to tell me you are not going to post to me anymore. Just go away... Remember where ever you go you have to take yourself.

Yes, it is true. I am staunchly Catholic and believe in the precepts of the Church. Guess what, none of them have to do with feelings. You accept it as the law or you don't. I believe in the authority of Mother Church, and I believe in everything it says as a whole. I can defend the Church to its core.

Marriage is a sacrament. (PERIOD) It can not be broken!

This is what I stand for. When others go against the grain and justify their actions does that make it right. Does that make them a Martin Lurther or King Henry?

BND, look I'm not claiming to be sinless. I am a struggling Christian like most of us. We are talking about breaking up a marriage and a family here over what feelings?

I didnt tell you I was going away, I bid you a fond ado for that post. by the way, what you wrote here, doesnt match up with this.



Looks like you have another bout of confession to do......



Have never tried to push MY ideas on you. I have preached the DB principles to you and those I cannot take credit for. I was merely trying to point out to you that I failed to utilize them properly and maybe you should.



NO, I said you are making the same mistakes I made.



day to day interaction can be as simple as picking up or receiving your children. You don't have to talk, you dont have to text conversations, you just have to coparent.

This is why I said you need a parenting plan so there will be no more nonsense. But you say it is impossible to implement a plan. Nothing is impossible.


Ian

Ian, Nothing is impossible yet you failed. If anybody talks to much it is you. In a previous post you said I linger on too much when she initiates conversation. Because that is all I had dude. I was getting the text. I was getting the hugs and kisses. I was getting the initiated I love yous from her. Now she is just more detached because I tried to put the screws into her.

Journal:

This evening so far went pretty well and I think it could have went in a disastorous way.

Like I said she called me at 5 to 6 before her shift was up. I'm going to the store after work so can they stay with you ahwhile longer. At quarter to 8. My daughter calls her, because she wants to be picked up. Misses her mother. I have to deal with that anxiety. She doesn't answer the phone. About 10 mintues go by and she said she is home putting away stuff and she will be right up to pick them up and she wants son to come too. It takes her 20 minutes to get to my house and she has a song and dance story that she lost her keys to the house and that is why it took her so long. So she couldn't call???? Then she wants the other key to our explorer because at least she will have a remote. I give her the key without thinking.

Ok why would she leave her house unlocked? Why would she not just call me and say can you drop them off because I can't find my keys? Why did it take two hours to go to a dollar store? When I know the store closes at 7. Why did she take the key? Did someone tell her you know what you better get his spare keys because he could just take the vehicle off you.

Something I would never do. I was calm with her and acted as if, and said oh you will find your keys don't worry. You went into the house with them, they must be somewhere.

Things just don't add up. She never wants me to drop the kids off to her in the evening. She would rather come to the house. Now my son wants to stay with me tonight. Lets see how this plays out.

You know my anxiety level was pretty high because I thought she was going to start what she did the other night. Our kids want to be with her and she went shopping and didn't return until four hours later.

I could have made the sitch worse. I could have said why didn't you answer your phone? What took you so long at the store? You haven't seen your kids in almost 24 hours and you don't want to be with them. You lost your keys? Why didn't you call me? Why did it take you 20 minutes for a 3 minute ride. Why why????? But none of this went down. Because I'm not reacting to any of her nonsense.

When she didn't answer her phone. I just told my daughter. I'm sorry honey, and I held her. I said I don't want to fight with your mother. She will call soon.

My friend was here and we were talking all evening. She yelled into goodbye (Friends name). Then I did ask her for a hug. She said why I'm all gross and greasy from work. I said that doesn't matter to me. Then I walked out with her and said you will find your keys don't worry. She was complaining about her OCD. I said you'll find them you just must have put them somewhere and can't remember where. She was all worried because the store keys were on that ring.

Phil have you thought that maybe she wants you to look after the kids to give you a chance to spend quality time with them? Yes, she does then get the benefit of being able to have some time for herself, so is it possible that you spending time with the kids is a win win situation?

Have you really tried to talk to her about a parenting plan? From what I read, it sounds like you have _told_ her what the plan should be and haven't given her the opportunity to put forward her opinion. yeah, she might screw you over and say mean and b1tchy things, but are you the bigger person, the husband who is staying true? The parent who can see what the kids need, and that is stability and consistency? Is it just the slightest bit possible that she trusts you with the kids and wants to have a chance to be a little free for a time before she sits back down and really works on herself? Is it possible that she may be (subconsciously) giving you a chance to be the father (stability, conscientuousness, loving) so she can see that you mean what you say about wanting to stay married? What I wanted from my h was to see him caring about d7 and making the effort to make her life happy instead of carrying on like a sad sack that I didn't want to spend time with him. Honestly? Who wants to spend time with a moody pr1ck? It might sound back to front but the times that I saw him put his own feelings aside and concentrate on what was best for d and making her feel like No. 1 actually made me remember what it was I love about him.

I have tried the parenting plan approach with h. I tried writing one down and giving it to him. It blew up in my face. That was about 6 months ago and we _still_ don't have anything written down. it sucks. I have tried talking to him about it, it sorta worked, but I live by his schedule and it sucks.

I'm just typing as i go and I'm not too fussed if it appears disjointed and I'm not too fussed if you don't like what I say. You are taking people to task because they are reaching out to you. Check your ego at the login page man....u are here for a reason aren't you? If you just want to journal, go start a blog somewhere else. The whole point of posting is to get other perspectives. If you don't want other perspectives and suggestions, don't post, go do the blog thing.

I post to you because I see my h in your behaviour. He feels like he's bent enough for our marriage and claims that he is prepared to compromise and work on our relationship but then refuses to respect my living space and comes and goes when he pleases it makes me feel like he doesn't care about what's important to me. He says one thing but does the other. He claims I am emotionally unavailable - well, try getting rebuffed and having your feelings ignored over and over again and see if you want to be emotionally available. It's pretty frickin' scary. Past experience has shown it doesn't go down well. never mind that you say you are going to do things differently or that you are doing things differently, it will take time for her to realise you mean it. Two days, two weeks and possibly even two months is too short a time to expect her to come running back prepared to work on things. You must show your changes first,otherwise she will not give you a chance.

I would probably be better off just posting my thoughts on my own thread. I don't think you really care to hear what other people have to say. Or maybe I can just keep posting here and pretend you are my h and post to you what I really want to say to him. That way, when I get smacked in the face by your short sightedness, arrogance and failure to even look at the sitch from someone elses point of view it might give me a heads up to what my h will do next and it won't hurt so bad when he does it.

Phil,
I see what is wrong...
But I honestly believe that acting needy and desperate is very unattractive, it adds pressure to the situation, which in turn makes things even worse.
I know that to you, getting those texts were a way of keeping the emotional connection going, but they weren't healthy and left you chomping at the bit for more.
She told you that she wants her space, so why not give her what she wants?
Let her stew in her own juices..
Make arrangments for the kids, but keep it along the lines of a business arrangement.
Honey, you gotta get it into your head you are a strong confident Man, who wants his family back together, not someone who is willing to settle for the scraps being thrown at him.

Nope just what I thought... There must have been a motive behind the key story. I call her to see what son is doing. She says he is staying with her now. She said she tried to text me and it wasn't working. So then I ask her if she found her keys and she said yes. I said ok, then can I have my key back. She said why. I said well what if I need it for some reason. Then she said well can I have a Jeep key, and I say sure. She gets all sad and says ok I'll give you the key back.

Then she says ok, I gotta go and hangs up.

So then I call back and kids answer. I said good I just wanted to tell you guys good night. I took to both kids.

Then I ask to talk to her. She gets on the phone. I ask her if she is alright. She says yes. I said ok, I just wanted to talk to you for a little bit. She said it's 10:30 and I don't want to talk now. I said ok, well I just had something funny to tell you, and you say you want to be my friend but you don't even talk to me. I just wanted to know how your day went. I said well our cousin might sleep over tonight. She says why. I said I guess those two are fighting she came back again. She says oh gosh those two. I said ok, what is going on for tomorrow. She says she is taking them down her moms and she will pick them up after work. I said ok, it was nice talking to you good night.

I think there was a plan for the key story. She is afraid I might go and steal the explorer or something. She still doesn't want to talk to me about anything.

Space, how much space do you need...

So I'm a doormat....

PURPLE>>>>> SHE DOESN'T WANT TO TALK TO ME ABOUT ANYTHING! She's tired. She needs a shower, she lost her keys... she has to go to work. she has to do this... She is late for this. That happened. One excuse after another. There is no maturity on her part to even have a discussion about a parenting plan. She is doing this by the seat of her pants. Ok...

She avoids talking to me because she doesn't want to change her mind yet.

yeah purple you do that... post to me what you want to say to your H. This will be great....