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Ok Get ready for the 2X4s




Be careful 180 can mean allot of things. 180's are only good for things that you have deprived YOURSELF from.
When dealing with the Spouse ya want more of a 90 degree...




ME TOO... (well not your wife but mine)

But you know what? She is not a princess. My Wife was not either. SHE is just a person...
When I told my wife I trusted her. (After I found the nude pics) SHE told me I should not have put her on a pedestal.
NOW I do see that. Our spouses are human. They do make mistakes just like us.
My Wife has a degree in Computer silence. I "thought" she was so smart. Here I am barely graduated High school and had to work hard to get were I am. NOW I see I am smarter that her in many ways...




WRONG... YOU ARE ALWAYS FIRST.... ok here is your first TRUE 180.
put yourself first. Even to an extent before your kids because if you are not in a good place how can you be there for your kids when they need you? Let’s say you have no money for food. You give all of your food to your kids... you die... Now what? Your kids will die also without a father... That may be an extreme but ya get my drift?




Great... thank her but DON'T make a big deal about it. Don’t make her think that you LIVE for her to make ya lunch. She will then think she will have to do more to really impress you





THIS is a 90 degree place... you don't want to STOP making lunch. She will miss nothing. What she will do is think you are mad at her.

Skip a day or two. Then she will miss it.



Ok first 2X4... DO NOT DO WHAT ANYONE (including me) TELLS you to do here.
You need to listen what people (Including me) tell ya and do what YOU feel is right.
YOU are the one living this hell. Even though we all are living similar situations EVERYONE is different.
It would be like me saying. "Hey my wife is blond so do this"
You know every "blond" is deferent, just like every brunette is deferent. And every red head gets mad easy. (Ok that is true).
So take a little of what puppy says, throw in a little if what I say and then do what Hopefulher wants to do...



From what I have read you have not gone a "Little dark" you have gone total eclipsed dude



(I hope I don't hit the wrong key and loose this I don't want to type this again)



Ok here it the 90 degree... Do not always call her. Call her once in a while.
Stay out a little longer than normal shopping and don't let her know (180 for you).
Now don't be a$$ and bring home treats for you and the kids and leave her out. If you do get something for the kids get something for her also. But don't make a special purchase for her. You need to knock her off that pedestal YOU put her on. She is not special she is one of the family
You see doing a 180 on ALWAYS calling her does not mean NEVER call her. It means don’t always call her.
You need to keep them off guard. Our Wife’s think they know us.



I already told yo what I think about "what other say"



WHY NOT? Come on the writing is on the wall. ANYBODY that wants something. A new car, a new house, a new apartment can not wait to sign the papers...

Deep down do you really think she wants this? Something is stopping her.



Do me a favor, look back at this post and take away every “ALWAYS" and change it to "most of the time"



Ok here is a 180 from your 180s that you have been doing.

Act like she is one of your co workers. ENGAGE in a conversation. Talk about your day. Let her tell ya about hers.
Do not pursue, but don’t withdraw either...

Hey you are sleeping in the same bed. I have not slept in the same bed as my wife in a year and in 5 days I will be going to retro with her.. the grass always seems greener somewhere else….

Good luck...

Doc

H4H,

fwiw, I think Doc's got it about right. You're swinging too far in one extreme and then the other. Plow the fertile MIDDLE GROUND that he describes here, and watch your wife respond!

Puppy

Thanks for posting, guys.

Not sure why it seems like I have gone eclipse.

Doc, I have done all the things you have mentioned. EVERYTHING. Yet, still I'm at the same place with her. I'm not dark with her. I know I said slightly dark. I have called it a "lighter shade of pale" before. I don't have the heart to go dark with her.

What I have done is to not be as connected to her as I was trying to get to. I was thinking she was pulling away from OM, but after our talk on Thursday at the doctors office, without her actually saying it, she seems to have no intention of ending it. That is what has gotten me to be doing what I'm doing. I just felt used and like a doormat.

She has had it both ways for so long. Getting what she needs from me at home, even though she says she hates it here with me. Yet, our time together is so good. It's when she thinks too much. Then the week comes and he calls her, it goes right back to the same. She gets her "love" from him. She doesn't let me give her that love.

I'm letting her initiate conversation. She is so afraid of losing our friendship. I don't ignore her. Too hard to do. I'm just trying not to do everything with her in mind. When she talks, I listen to her. I validate her. I ask a question to keep it going.

I do include her in all plans and would never leave her out if I brought something home for myself and the kids. I'm not rude. This is the woman I love.

Read back a bit, Doc. I think you'll see it. I wish we could have that beer, too, by the way.



Last night, I finished watching the movie. It was getting late, and no word from roomie. Went to bed at about midnight.

Of course, ya'll know what I am thinking. With her mother?
Yeah right.

She calls about 12:30 using her mothers phone. On purpose, I suppose. To let me know she was with her mother.

"I'm still here at my mothers."
"Oh" kind of sleepy.
"Are you asleep?"
"No, just in bed. Did ya'll ever leave and go out?"
"Yeah, we went to Luby's to eat, then we went to grocery store. I got some bread and she bought some stuff. We looked at hair magazines for a long time. She bought some hair dye."
"At least ya"ll had fun."
"I always have fun when we go things together."
"I know. Its good to do those things together."
"Yeah."
"Are going to do her hair, miss hairstylist?"
"No,(yawn)she doesn't want to anymore."
"Now she changed her mind?"
"No, she is just too tired now. Right, mom? She doesn't want me to drive all the way home."
"Ok"
Pause
"Did you buy refridgerator stuff?"
"No, just bread. Actually, mom bought the bread too, so I didn't even buy anything(chuckle). Is it still raining over there?"
"No, it stopped earlier. I got to clean the puppy pen."
We talk about the puppies.
"Yeah, mom is falling asleep on the couch right now. She is moving her foot to try to stay awake. Her lips are puckered, waiting for her prince charming(laughs). 'Right mom, your waiting for your Prince? The short one with the tarantula on his lip." She is laughing. I hear mumbling in the background.
"This one and your ex sure have a lot in common, huh mom?" More laughing from her.
Both men are about 5'2".
I say "Yeah, put them together, and they can reach the top shelf."
She really laughs hard. She tells her mom. She is still laughing.
I love to hear her laugh.
I say, "No wonder her freezer is on the bottom."
Big belly laughs from roomie. She relays to MIL.
"Go put your mother to bed."
"Ok, I'll see you in the morning."
"Ok"
"Goodnight" she says very sweetly.
"Goodnight. Sleep tight."
"You too."
Bye. Bye.

Are you sure her Mom didn't let her just borrow her phone?

Not trying to start anything, that was just my first thought.

kat

Who knows ?

This is your sitch.. and YOUR life my friend.. Embrace it !.. and enjoy it !

Could I have extra mustard on my sandwich tomorrow.. ?.. Just asking, eh ?

Lets get this thingy together man !

AT

Again, thank you to those who keep up and to those who post.

kat, she was with her mom. She used the home phone. Yesterday, at MIL house, we talked about everything they did together.

Now, Thursday night is a different story. Some intel showed that her coworker texted her that she couldn't make it. Then a phone call later while roomie was on the phone with me. Coworker might have changed her mind and gone after all. Neither here nor there.
Can't care anymore.

Tom(arghhh), shot of mustard? Cool. It was tuna salad today, but gonna have ham and cheese tomorrow. I made my sandwich and left the remaining tuna on the counter. Didn't ask her today. While getting the cover to the bowl, she asked, "Are you done with the tuna?" I saide, "Yeah, you gonna have some, too? I didn't know if you wanted..." "I'll just make my own sandwich."
She sounded disappointed that I didn't automatically ask her. Almost a little upset.

Yesterday was a weird day. I think it was good, but weird.

Roomie called while I was getting ready for church. Some small talk. She had already had some coffee. Nice sleepy talk. She still had our swimming bag in her vehicle, so she wore her swim suit bottoms and my muscle t-shirt to sleep in.

I told her that sounded hot. I know she didn't expect my comment. Hell, I didn't expect my comment. She said, "My swim bottoms and your t-shirt? Yeah, right."

She asked if I was getting ready for church. I tell her yes, and I ask her if she wanted me to take anything in town to her. She tells me what clothes she would like me to bring her. I iron my clothes and a shirt for her. I stop by MIL to drop of her clothes expecting to go to church by myself. She wants to go, too.

Church sermon is about judgement day. How the ones who do will be separated from the ones who SAY they do. Separate the pretenders. Missed opportunities for ministering. While singing praise in the beginning, roomie starts her usual tears flowing. I'm pretty emotional too. At one point, she gives me a hug. She is holding the hug. Holding me tight. Letting go, she looks directly into my eyes. Her teary eyes tell me she is sorry.

Sermon ends, we sit for a little while before leaving. It feels like she wants to talk. I can feel her looking at me. I don't want to right now. I now her mom and her must have talked a lot. Her eyes were still red and a little teary just this morning when I got there.

Leaving, she tells me she wants to take her mom to the hairstylist for a cut. I say ok. First, she wants to pick up some sweet bread and take back. She invites me to have some and some cofee at MIL's. I say fine.

Still kind of quiet, in front of shop, roomie keeps asking what is wrong. What's up? I say nothing.

Then I do. Again, she gets me talking.

Overall, the conversations covered a lot. How I was worried about her being judged. Not people, but God. She got a little defensive. How she hasn't changed her mind. We talk about OM. I know she thinks she is in love with him. She calls him a friend, still. I tell her to stop insulting my intelligence. She says she is trying not to hurt me. Doesn't want to be cold hearted with her words. I tell her that her actions are just as bad. I just want her honesty. I talk about me letting her go. I can do that. She needs to find her own peace, without the burden of what she has done.

She says that she knows I have spoken to OMW. He told her. I tell her that I have never spoken to her. I tell her that OM will tell her anything. She tells me that OMW is bad. I tell her that unless she has spoken to her herself, she only knows one side. His side. If he would put his effort to her like he does to roomie, who know what might happen with his marriage. He can't be trusted. She says she doesn't trust him 100%. She she knows what she has to do. She just doesn't know HOW to do it. I tell her to just do it. She looks at me. I tell her that she is doing it to me. She says,"Yeah, look how long that took." She says he doesn't say bad things about me. I tell her there IS nothing for him to say that is bad. I remind her that he has said some things that are not true.

I tell her that I want her to know what I want. I love her, I want to work on our marriage, anything is possible. I want her to say that she did everything possible to make it work. THEN after, if things still are the same, then we know we tried. It can be over. I tell her I feel peace that my kids know I tried. I have spoken to them. She says that she needs to protect her heart.

Other stuff. Stuff that we needed to say. In the end, out of the car, I stop her, grab each hand into my own hands, and look her in the eyes. I tell her:
"I love you."
"Don't say that."
"I love you enough to let you go. I am man enough to let you go."
"I am big enough to let you go."

We go inside of shop, she is asking me what I want to eat. Would I rather go have tacos somewhere. I say no. We pick. Then back to MIL's house. They are telling me how much they talked. How much they cried. Sitting at table, MIL is talking. Roomie serves me. MIL talks about family issues. I start to ask MIL questions. Her family is messed up. We talk about generations. MIL agrees to a lot of what I say. We start talking about relationships. She tells me about being married to roomies father. Issues. How she felt. He was a father figure. She outgrew him. Roomie says, "Mom, all the things you just said, I have told Roger."
I ask MIL to expand so I can retort. I ask her to define outgrew. I comeback. MIL is not helping at this point. She is not purposely sabotaging, but not helping. But I know they hear my side. They are listening to me. Again, a good conversation overall. For all of us.

They go to hang out, and I leave to go hit some golf balls. D11 calls me. "Are you going to come see us?" After all this talking, I miss them already. I tell them that I can pick them up and take them swimming if they want to. I changed my plans. I pick them up. We go swimming for a few hours. Good times with my girls. Just us. I do keep an eye on the phone. No call from roomie. Good. She is not coming. We finish and I take back to my parents. I do not stay. My relationship is a little strained with them anyway. Not the same. They don't understand me wanting to keep trying. Oh well. Someday, they'll understand.

Roomie calls as I head out. I don't take the call. VM says she is checking on us and going to grab a bite to eat with MIL and then head home. Call me. I don't. Get home and she calls me again. I don't take it, but call her back. She is on her way. I begin to tidy up and prepare something for me to eat. Roomie comes home. I am quiet with her again. Trying to see what her reaction will be. She tries to talk.

I have been thinking about her and OM. Just making myself more angry. Thats why I am quiet again.

She showers. I shower. She asks me if I want to watch a movie.
"Sure".
We still have 3 movies to watch. She asks which one. I say for her to pick. She puts them behind her back, I choose the middle. "Fools Gold".

She is getting some watermelon, and asks me if I want some, too. I tell her I'll get myself some.
"Now what's the matter?"
"Nothing. Why?"
"Short answers from you."
"Nothing."

Sitting down next to each other watchig movie, she is eating popsicles. She is laying kind of sideways. The way she like to sit to watch a movie. I'm sitting on my end, but her feet are pressing on the side of my knee. That USED to be our norm. Her feet on me. These past few months, she makes sure not to be touching me at all. NO contact. Now her feet are on me. I tap her hip and motion for her to let me have a popsicle, too. She give me one.

Gets up and comes back and puts a pack of popsicles on my leg. I am wearing boxers and she is in her clingy knee length nighty. I yell and she is laughing. Just as she is about to sit down, I take the popsicles and put them up under her nighty and put them on her a**. She screams and we both laugh. She again sit with her feet on me. Finish the movie. Get to bed.

In bed, she tells me goodnight, very sweetly. Goodnight.
I am tossing because my back is hurting. She complained about her feet on Friday.
"Hey, do your feet still hurt?"
"What?"
"Are your feet still hurting you?"
"Yeah, why?"
"I make a deal with you. If you give me a back massage, I'll give you a foot massage."
"With the machine or my hands?"
"I don't care."
"Ok."
She gets up to close our bedroom door. She complains that she thinks she has razor burn on her upper thigh, hip area. I see her picking up her gown. Feeling her skin. She puts some vaseline and then brings the vaseline and gives it to me. She gets the back massager and starts in. She tells me to take off my shirt. I do. I let her massage for about 20 minutes.

Ahhh!

When she finishes, I see her looking distant. Like thinking. I say thanks.
"You don't have to give me a foot massage." She gets up and turns off the light.
"Besides, my feet are really rough and cracked."
"Thats why you need the vaseline rub, dork."

I position myself and ask for her feet. She gives to me. I massage each foot and put socks on her.

She says thank you.
I say, "Thank YOU."

I already wrote about this morning.

I don't see that I have anything to lose. I do all I can for my kids. Right now, I am a full time parent. Taking advantage of that. I am not catering to her at this point. I see us having some more conversations. I think we NEED them.

If she goes, she goes. I am not chasing her off by talking to her. She knows my stand. Not going to repeat it. I am going to work on me. I will have plenty of time when she goes. May have a talk with her about what her fears are. What is she afraid of? Why does she feel like she has to protect her heart from me? What did that mean?

Not an R talk, just some deep conversation. Why not? Can't hurt. I'm sure we'll catch another flick tonight. Maybe after. See how it goes. She's leaving anyway, right? I'm not going crazy. Have some good talk, and then she goes.

But what if?

For those whose spouse is already out the door, what would ya'll have done different? Since my pull back, she IS acting differently. In a good way. I think the separation will do us some good.

Let the beatings begin.

I would have kicked him out as soon as he said he couldn't give her up which was in the first month of my finding out and taking a stronger approach. Remember this was 2 years ago that I found out and I did all the crying, begging, pleading, moral talk, family, talk, money talk. You name it, I tried it. I din't come here until 3.5 mths ago. Wish I had found it sooner, but I can't change that, I can just go forward.

kat

kat, she has expressed several times that she KNOWS what she needs to do. Not that she WANTS to, but NEEDS to. She is unsure how to do it. I know her. She is going to feel guilty. Just like she feels guilty for what she has done to me. She just doesn't express that guilt. But I see it. Especially in church. She realizes that what has happened is wrong. She has to clean up her own mess, though.

We have a funny relationship, however. Not like any others I have seen around here. Or anywhere. Maybe we are just that couple that will not be together, but everyone knows that we should still be together. The kind that if we move on from each other, will have significant others the will be jealous of our relationship. Like I said, we WILL get back together.

Someday.

Oh I didn't mean you wouldn't. You just asked what would any of us done diferently and I answered. I hope God can open her heart for you (and her eyes as well).

kat

Yes, she is guilty. She doesn't like you pulling from her. She wants you to be "ok" with her leaving. If you are "ok", she will be "OK". I remember saying, "He's finally feeling the same way and it is getting easier." Not sure you want her to feel "ok" with this, h4h. She didn't want you to give her a rub because she feels guilty getting anything from you when she is treating you awfully.

Your talks are good I think because you tend to not want to talk but to dream about how it really is....this way, it is out in the open for both of you. Puppy's truth darts toward her might be good right now. Believe me, she WANTS you to make this easy on her because of the guilt. She also has herself thinking that she shouldn't be with you because she "doesn't love you".

h4h, if she leaves, ..........I really don't think you want her to leave. I really don't think you want that.