No offense, because we're in a somewhat similar boat in many ways, Cinco, but do you think he ever looks at your marriage and thinks he's lucky to be single, the way you look at his "lonely, sad" life and think you're lucky to be married?
I know how you feel; it looks from the way I talk here as if I'm miserable in my marriage, but I'm not. I do love my wife, and I'm usually conscious of how happy I am to have my family. But if people who envy this happy marriage knew about the sleepless nights and the tears and the simple fury, they might be less envious.
People on the outside see all the ways I show her love all the time, and they think she's so lucky to have me. And they see her showing love to me, and they think I'm so lucky to have her. But she and I don't see it.
Silly, I'm sure he had that thought, "why stick yourself with a ball-and-chain?" I guess the difference is he'll never know what he has missed. I on the other hand did a little of that "crazy living" and now know which lifestyle I prefer. I just never knew how much attention a marriage would take to keep the ML part going.... It's a work in progress.
You are at the age Silly where the troubles began for my M. I wish I had done what you are doing now and putting the work into trying to change things for the better. Keep at it man, don't waste 17 years like I did, ignoring it and trying to run away from the pain. I only woke up just recently to the fact that it can really change.
Me49 W49 D17 M23 Sep01 Me PA 1 Jan02 filed D Mar02 ended A 1 reconcile Apr08 Me PA 2 May08 ended A 2 Aug09 A's revealed My latest thread Drive
Continue on, guys...don't let this stop you from your dialog...
I just wanted to enter into a different direction so you all wont think I am a man-hater...and also because it is now a large part of my life.
New topic: WHAT I LEARNED FROM MARS/VENUS AND HOW IT MADE ME A BETTER WIFE-TO-BE
I had read the original Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus way back when it was written. At that time, my now-ex-husband wasn't looking like the description of Mars in the book so I just didn't "get it". There was lots of info in there I could have used at that time but I just didn't think it applied to us that much because - as I said - my now-ex wasn't very Mars at all.
However...reading that book, plus a few more by John Gray, in regards to my current relationship, has helped me and us tremendously. I am a changed woman and view relationships totally differently in part because of those books.
So here is a list of bullet points of things I know and do now, that I didn't know and didn't do before. These are things that I, as a woman in a relationship, can do to make him love me more every single day...
*When he comes home from work, I am happy to see him! I don't dump my worries on him at that moment. I give him time to come home, see me happy to greet him, get him a beverage, sit down and chill, let him talk about his day if he wants.
*When I have the opportunity, I brag him up in front of my friends, my kids, my mother, his friends, etc. This makes him beam with pride. I also do it when he is not there, and word gets back around to him about things I have said.
*Don't backseat drive! This one took me a long time to figure out, but it should have been so easy. DUH! Men want you to trust they can safely deliver you from here to there without your mothering input about his driving skills.
*Expect him to be defensive...roll with it and don't get defensive in return. This is a difference between men and women that is very hard for women to understand. Finally I realized I didn't need to understand it, I just needed to accept it. If I bring to his attention any way he has failed me, he will get defensive about it at first. He will not just say "oh baby, I'm so sorry you felt that way". He is a man and they just don't react that way. Women react that way, but I can't expect him to. Instead he will say "what do you MEAN I didn't do this or that???" To which I have to remain calm, not get defensive back to him, and logically explain my feelings to him. Finally, he will stop the defensiveness and accept responsbility, fix it and apologize. But it is my gift to him and to our relationship for me to not get defensive back at him. Trust me guys, this is very difficult for a woman to accomplish!
*Sex - any time, any where, with enthusiasm, with me intiating more than half the time, with me willing to try and do anything with him. (Although this is not something he has ever had a problem with in his life before me, so lucky for me, he has not been damaged by an SSM or similar. He was expecting me to be a good lover and I am/was. I am so glad he has no baggage in this regard.)
*When I need to talk - I have to be very calm and clear and tell him that "I am just venting, this is not for you to fix for me, just to listen". This takes away his anxiety about not being able to fix my problem for me.
*I shower him with adoration and appreciation for everything he does for me, which is a LOT...but I have to keep it out of the sugary sweet zone. It has to be real appreciation, not just done to placate him.
*I stay busy with my own life and don't make it his responsibility to provide me with my hobbies, interests, etc. I have an active social life, friends, a busy family tree, a full time job, hobbies and a deep spiritual life. I keep all of these things afloat on my own so that my life is full and interesting. Therefore, I am an interesting person for him to come home to. There is a desire to throw myself into him and make him the center of my life, but I resist this, knowing now that this will actually make me unattractive to him and it will make our relationship unbalanced.
These are just a few of the wonderful things I learned from M/V. My life and relationship has been totally different since I "got it".
I think when men are younger they are definitely ruled by their penis in so many ways. oops I said it.... But I also remember my hormones were crazy and I was doing my H 24/7 when I first met him too.
I think it also boils down to sexual attraction and then like the men on this board are saying.....
... When a real man gets Married he marries "the one" and sure he looks at other Women and may even think she is attractive.... but if he is committed thats all it is. LOOKING~ Our society has sex in everything even burger commercials. It is looked at as something you can get by having the right clothes, car or drink you prefer..... But that isnt true intimacy.
The sex and orgasms I have with my H now are amazing.... and we have almost been married 12 years! All 100% natural... no Mercedes etc etc. No Gucci... All those things would be nice but they dont get me hot. My brain and how I am being treated outside the bedroom make for some really hot sex....
Unfortunately boys are taught too conquest as many women as they can and are praised for it. On the other hand girls are taught to save themselves.... and if she doesnt she is a whore...
go figure...
And then these kids get Married and noone really ever was open or honest with them about sex...
I for one was taught that sex was dirty... you only do it to have kids... and only whores get off and like to F*Kc..... CATHOLIC ... on top of that Hispanic girl upbringing. My Mom will still tell me .. " Oh the idea of putting a Mans **** in your mouth its just sick... I dunno who would ever do that?" I have never told her I do...
So anyway .. yeah we need a sexual revolution.
I personally have tried my best to be open with my kids about sex and I am open for questions as much as possible....
Dance and Ali, is there any chance that I could get just a little bit of you two to rub off on my wife? A Vulcan mind meld maybe??? If she had even half of your outlooks and attitudes as they are today, I would be one very happy man indeed.
It's so frustrating when I try to talk about sex with her and she acts as if it is some silly topic that doesn't merit the time. Is it just embarrassment? I'm trying to awaken that in her again. I'm just not sure she misses it enough to care one way or the other. Or worse it was never there to begin with.
Me49 W49 D17 M23 Sep01 Me PA 1 Jan02 filed D Mar02 ended A 1 reconcile Apr08 Me PA 2 May08 ended A 2 Aug09 A's revealed My latest thread Drive
Ali - John Gray has several books, I have read at least 4 of them, but there are probably about 12 total. The original book, if you haven't read it for a long time, will cause a lot of light bulb moments for you.
Cinco - you may never be able to awaken that in her, but KEEP TRYING and try to have faith. Adopt a "dont give up attitude" but keep it on your side of the fence. In other words, don't go at this like "I want to make my wife awaken to her inner sexual self" because that will put pressure on her to become something that YOU want...not encourage her to open up to the beautiful self she truly is. See the difference? You can do it!
OK This one is for Baggy...but also, this IS my sex blog and therefore, I want to share a little bit. Whee!
On Silly's other thread, Baggy made a guess that I wouldn't necessarily be up for his "Taken in Hand" type of relationship. (I did go check out that website a little bit Baggy...very cool).
For those who don't know, the gist of it is this: strong women want an even stronger man. One who can literally *take us* physically and sexually.
This can be difficult for the average man because he normally doesn't have any training in how to do this. It can also be difficult for the average woman too, because she knows she secretly wants it, but it is not something she can teach her man.
Here's my confession and experience with this...
I was one of the typical women who wanted it but didn't know how to show a man what to give me. Enter my now-fiance into the picture. Lucky for me, he already knew how. He has been there and done that. He is naturally an alpha-male and really "gets" women and what they want and need, and he spent most of his life single and got to play and experience just about every typical male fantasy there is. All the while, women threw themselves at him and begged him to fulfill their fantasies as well.
On the other hand, I had been very sheltered (by some standards) in real life, but very active in my mind sexually and in my fantasies. So my mind wanted one thing, but my body had no clue how to go about getting it, nor what to do when I got there.
As it turns out, we are a perfect match in so many ways...because even though he had been a bad boy in his past, he needed and wanted a good girl to really be with and settle down with. I am certainly by *experience* a good girl...but in my mind I yearned for so much more sexual freedom.
Our sex life at first was very charged, beautiful, expressive, loving, warm...but not naughty. It took me some time to shake off the shackles of my long sexless marriage and my inexperience.
But I'd say within 6 months, I was busting out of my shell.
Now I'm just a love machine, and I don't work for nobody but him.
:0)
At this point, we are over the top. None of my friends or anything I read anywhere have the type of sex life we have. Due to his experience, we have such a great head start. But I brought some things to the table that *most* women don't...so as it turns out, it is actually me plus him that causes our great sex. Not just him and his skills.
One of the things I bring to the table is that I am a gymnast. Which means, I am incredibly strong, incredibly flexible, and I can move smoothly and effortlessly. He is also very strong and I am light weight compared to him.
So this combination of our skills allows us to have what I call "circus sex".
Yes, it is probably what you are thinking. Impossible positions can be achieved by a gymnast and a strong man. Yes I can do the splits while he is going down on me or pounding my lights out. Yes he can literally throw me across a room, and yes I can literally roll and walk out of it as if by magic. Also being a dancer (ballroom, swing, etc) there is so much to learn about lead and follow that can be used in the bedroom. (I encourage every couple to learn to dance a lead/follow style of dancing for this very reason).
Another thing I brought to the table is the fact that I am extremely physically tough. I don't know why but I always have been. This is beyond just my strength, I am talking about being tough. What this means to our sex life is that he can truly rough me up (spanking, grabbing me very hard, pushing me around, etc) and I never get hurt nor do I bruise. He can't believe how rough he can be on me and he used to be a little worried about it like maybe I was just hiding how hurt I was, or maybe I truly had some kind of masochistic problems...but I don't. I'm just tough. Spank me again, honey, I LOVE IT. At this point, he knows I really do love it and I really am that tough.
And finally...one thing I brought to the table I didn't even know I had until I we were together about 1 years...and that thing is that I can "squirt". The first time it happened, I was shocked. I had heard about this before but it seemed weird and creepy to me and I put no effort into finding out anything else about it. But when it happened spontaneously to me, my life was never the same after that. It felt like nothing I'd ever experienced before. It took some time to figure out how to make it happen when I wanted it to, after that first spontaneous time. But the time spent in trying to figure it out was a lot of fun of course! Now...it is easy for me. It isn't something we go for every time...it has to be planned for because I can literally soak through 4 or 5 folded up bath towels. So we save it for when we know we can savor and enjoy it and make it last for a long time per session.
In all his previous bad boy experiences, my man has never encountered a squirter like I am. He has experienced some of it before, but not like me. I am apparently the squirt queen as well as DanceQueen. LOL! So I get to provide him with a huge turn on - one that he has always wanted to experience - but one which no woman can fake (there is no way to fake it).
There are other things I bring to the table too, but because they would possibly embarass my fiance to disclose them I will not. Just suffice it to say that once you open up a woman to her true inner sexual self, you maybe be surprised about that genie in that bottle. I was a simple, inexperienced woman in a sexless marriage until I was 37 years old. Now I am 41 and I have a better sex life than anything I've seen in porn or read or heard about.
For you guys out there who are starting down this path within your own marriages, you do have some strikes against you...BUT just trust in the process. Have faith in your wife. Believe that she really does have a vixen inside of her, even if she can't see it in there herself. Continue reading and learning. And remember this...when you have an empty nest, it is much easier for her to swing from the chandelier.
Your blog is both enlightening and fun to read! You wrote:
Originally Posted By: DanceQueen
For those who don't know, the gist of it is this: strong women want an even stronger man. One who can literally *take us* physically and sexually.
This can be difficult for the average man because he normally doesn't have any training in how to do this. It can also be difficult for the average woman too, because she knows she secretly wants it, but it is not something she can teach her man.
From what I've read, it is often assumed, by women wishing that their man would wake up and 'take charge' (i.e. lead the relationship both in and out of the bedroom), that if their man doesn't do this, then he's just not naturally dominant enough. Either he has it, or he doesn't. I disagree with this view, and appreciate your statement above that in many cases "he normally doesn't have any training in how to do this." I'll take this a step further and state that it's actually even worse: all of his previous training (upbringing) tells him that THIS IS THE WRONG THING TO DO! I was personally taught this on two fronts:
First, I grew up in a male-dominated family: where my father claimed the position of head of the household by right of the wedding vow made by my mother to "honor and obey" him. That was consent enough for him. While he took his responsibilities for the family quite seriously, he was also domineering and critical – ruling the family in a manner that would have us dreading his return home from work each day. While my mother dutifully ran the household to my father's specifications, she was also bitter and depressed most of the time. Shortly after I moved out on my own, my parents drew up divorce papers for the third and final time, ending a long ordeal for everyone involved. When I began to consider forming a family of my own, I vowed that I would never have the kind of marriage that my parents had.
Second, as a child of the 60's and 70's, I embraced the ideas of the feminist movement, and considered my young wife-to-be my equal in all respects. Why should either of us need to be the head of the household? After going through Shere Hite's The Hite Report on Female Sexuality, I extended this egalitarian attitude into the bedroom as well. Why should anyone need to dominate there, either? While I never had a problem being masculine or being a man out amongst 'the guys,' with my wife I was always much softer. I thought that was the way it was supposed to be: the old 'Leave it to Beaver' paradigm had been revised, right?
Luckily for me, I do have one model upon which I can base the new, male-dominated relationship that my wife and I are now building (with her support and consent). My paternal grandparents had a wonderful relationship, and one where there was no doubt that my grandfather was head of the household (and, I'm sure, head of the bedroom as well). My grandmother was a fiery, quick-witted, strong-willed woman, but my grandfather was stronger. Unlike my father, my grandfather wielded 'power' in a quiet, confident manner, and his love and respect for my grandmother was always evident. They were, in essence, equal partners who had purposefully chosen to take on roles which emphasized his masculinity and her femininity, to the delight of both of them. It worked for 55 years, until my grandfather's death in 1990.
So, there is hope for us 'late bloomers' to this type of relationship. My wife and I are only two months into this shift, and it's already made a world of positive difference, for both of us.
Take care,
Bagheera
Last edited by Bagheera; 07/03/0806:26 PM.
Me 50, W 45, M for 26 yrs S25, D23, S13, S10 20+ year SSM; recovery began Oct 2007
oops I said it....
If she had even half of your outlooks and attitudes as they are today, I would be one very happy man indeed. 
