Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums Infidelity/Extramarital Affairs/Jealousy Watching the kids while W goes to OM

oh hell, let's just put him on a puppy pedestal!

Well, I mostly agree with Lodo, but I'm sorry I have to disagree that you can single-handedly always save the situation. I do think that some of our WAS are messed-up, nutty (in my H's case sorry but it's true), etc. I do think you can be the perfect DB'er and your marriage can still fail, and there are probably some that are not that great at it, and their marriages are reconciled.

I think following Puppy's advice is good, but some of it is out of your control, and I don't think anyone here should feel guilty about anything they've done or not done!!! Karen

I seen your post and I had to stop by, your are new here, I'm sorry to say

First let me introduce myself, a lot of people know my name. I'm Jeff from St Louis and I'm sorry you came. But we will try and give you hope, listen to Puppy he really helps you cope.

I cannot say more, I'm bitter and mean, Puppy tried to help me and he still tries. (Thanks Puppy) he is the best. I'm set in my ways and puppy knows that. You should listen to him and everyone else here. They will try as best they can to help in any way they can.

You are learning, its not you. You can be the best you can be. You can help out and try to make things work. Its out of your control. Listen to puppy and read Michele W Davis's books. Its a up hill battle but its possible, you'll need prayers and a lot of hope.

Good Luck and I'll try to stop by, just to say high and see how you are doing, and pray for you if I can.

We all have a long haul ahead of us, good or bad it's the path we choose in life that's important.

M45
W41
M10 3/4 years
D9, D6, D6, S5
OM confirmed 12/07 merry christmas to me
WAM (Walk Away Mom) 05/31/08
Date I'll forgive W for A = never

Lynn97,

I've only read this thread, so maybe I don't have all of the facts of your situation. I'm sure you want to see and spend time with your kids regardless of what your W is doing, don't you?

I know it may feel like your a doormat or a baby-sitter, but your going to want to see your kids no matter what she does. You can't use the kids to control what she does or who she does it with. She's always going to win this battle because she knows you love your kids and you want to see them.

Best you can do to set "boundaries" in this situation is tell her when your available to see the kids and when your not. Don't let her dictate the terms to you. If this were an actual D situation, your entitled to a shared parenting arrangement and that's something you two would have to work out arrangements over.

I think the "doormat" label might be incorrectly applied in this situation with "watching" the kids. That's something you want to do anyway, so how is that being a "doormat"? If your there at her beckon call to watch the kids, then yes, that's being a doormat. Schedule your time with the kids.

If you want to really make her think, take the kids on vacation. Just you and them. Take them for a week. Have fun with them. Don't include her or update her on your activities. Make her call you to find out what your doing and when she does, make sure you let her know you and the kids are having a good time without her. That drove my stbx crazy and I know she was taking out that frustration and sense of isolation from her family out on the OM <evil grin>. It works.

Thanks for all of your support.

Puppy, I'm not sure what I need from everyone here right now. But this is helping, I think I just need to figure out more direction.

Lodo, can you send me a link to your story. I'd love to read it.

And I guess I should probably make just one post and stick with it. Where should it go, newcomers?

So here is the latest. W and I talked last night after she got home from her "date". When she left I could tell DB'ing was working. She said she was proud of me, that she could tell I was changing. And honestly I do feel that, I feel pretty good that I've woke up and started to work on me. But after seeing the OM she seemed more confused again. He pulled her back in. I couldn't take it anymore so I started down the talk road. It was a very bad night for DB'ing.

Basically she wants to date both of us to decide who she wants to be with. This just doesn't seem right, or normal for that matter. I'm not trying to invalidate her feelings. I do believe OM makes her happy...hell maybe they are perfect for each other. I started to bring up the fact that I can't do this "dating two men" thing for very long. She asked if that means I'm making her choose. I quickly started to back peddle. She said she is just waiting for one of us to flip out and she knows she'll run to the other. I realize that I fell back into my old ways. Trying to control her, not listening to her, not validating her feelings, etc. I also realized that I lose all sense of objectivity when I'm with her....I just want her back.

I stopped. Apologized, and started listening again. We talked some more about it and I said that if you're going to date us then you have to let me have a chance. You're shutting me out and it's not fair. I really didn't know what else to do. Then I started flirting with her, making her feel better and gave her a back rub. I'm really whipped.

I only see three choices right now. Date her while she dating him (which to me seems like playing a game). Divorce her and be done with it (something that I know I'm not strong enough to do right now). Or maybe something in the middle. Maybe I do need to take the kids on a vacation. Somehow detach from her some more. Maybe go dark. I don't know really.

I have another counselor appointment on Thursday. She has hers today so we'll see how that goes too. I'm supposed to go over there tonight and watch a show with her (I told her that if we only get together and talk on our "dates" then it's never going to seem fun). She came up with the idea so I went with it.

There is so much I see in this that is very similar to a lot of the stories her and there is so much to it that seems WAY off base with the normal (dating both of us to choose???). Any insight would be great. I promise to listen to it even though I'm hard headed

Lynn

Hi Lynn,

A link to my current thread is in my signature and I list all my threads at the very beginning. #2 is the one where I had just learned about OM.

You'll see that I was all over the place. A close friend of Puppy's named Chocolateeyes offered me a lot of advice but I really waffled about it.

Have you looked at the advice offered on the Marriage Builders website? If you go to something in Infidelity under "quick clicks", there are good articles as well as links to advice addressing different situations (Q&A column).

lodo

Oh please! If I am "wise" it is only because:

a) God gives me wisdom, when I humbly seek it from Him; and

b) I did so much WRONG in my own sitch, that I learned from it; and

c) I study affairs, and learn from them, and what works and what doesn't.

More on "b." I am, by nature a quintessential "Nice Guy." A "pleaser" and a "rescuer" and I am married to a world-class Princess with an entitlement streak that you wouldn't believe.

So I've learned what DOESN'T WORK, and I try to help other people avoid the same mistakes I've made. The one thing about affairs are, 95% of them follow one of just a few basic scripts. The names and places are changed, but they play out in VERY predictable patterns, albeit with both good and bad outcomes.

And the great thing about DBing is, that even if you get a "bad" outcome (meaning you don't save your marriage), you STILL come out a better, more emotionally-healthy person, and you learn the techniques and the life skills necessary to have your future relationships be happy and healthy ones!

Puppy

Puppy is your story on her somewhere? I would love to read how you worked through it. You W sounds like mine, and I am also a thinker. I research and analyze every angle of everything...which probably gets me into these messes.

The biggest issue I'm having is do I fight or do I let her go. I know if I fight I can win, but is it really a win? Will she grow as a person so we can have a mature relationship? Can I let her go? Can I deal with her going farther into the OM arms? Will she come back to me or is he the one for her?

It's all so confusing.

Lynn

Lynn,

The others may disagree with me here, but it is totally unacceptable for you to let her date both of you! She took vows against doing that crap. If you agree to it, then all she is doing is having her decision to CHEAT validated by her husband. "He agreed to an open marriage" Why don't you and your best friend just take turns with her in bed and let her decide? Heck, you could get his condom ready and hold his robe while he is with her. That is what she is asking!

Sorry if this is crude, but that is how I see the situation.

I know this is completely off the reservation, but I would have one last very serious talk with my "best friend". Just a reminder, the guy having sex with you wife is not your friend.

NTE

Hi, Lynn. Here are some of my thoughts on your sitch, and answers to your questions:



I think this would really help you, as would reading Karen's and others'. We all have learned quite a great deal along the way, and can help you navigate some of the pitfalls that are bound to come up.




I'd strongly suggest that you post here in "Infidelity." While some DB techniques are applicable across the broad spectrum of marital problems, there are dynamics unique to affairs that will have a bearing on your approach. Plus, just the fact that everyone here has DEALT -- or is currently dealing -- with infidelity in their own marriages will bring great comfort and advice to you, tailored to your sitch. I will warn you, though, this isn't the best Forum to go to if you're merely looking for "((((hugs, Lynn!))))" and "Keep up the great work!" (although you will certainly get plenty of validation and support here). This is a more no-nonsense, let's-get-on-with-the-work-at-hand group of folks here, and several of us are going to calls 'em as we sees 'em.



Yep. This is why "no-contact" is so crucial if your marriage is ever going to have a chance. So long as your wife is being influenced by the chemical "rush" that she gets from her affair, she will NOT be receptive to you, and she won't be in a good place, emotionally, from which to make long-term decisions about her own future.



I'd say you have good instincts, Lynn (as you have all along so far). If it feels wrong, it's because it IS wrong, and you need to not be afraid to tell your wife that. There are ways to draw -- and enforce -- boundaries while not "controlling," and allowing your wife to make her own decisions. But you absolutely do NOT -- and SHOULD not -- be "okay" with an open marriage. I'd suggest you respond to her with:

"Wife, I've been thinking about our talk yesterday. And while I don't want a divorce, ethically and morally I CANNOT live in an open marriage. It would appear that we both have some decisions to make."



Don't backpedal. Your response should have been (and don't worry, you'll get PLENTY of opportunities to say this in the days and weeks ahead):

"I can't MAKE you do anything. What I AM telling you is, I am not willing to live in an open marriage, and nor can I even begin to WORK on the problems in our marriage when one of us has made the uniliateral decision to invite a third person into it. End your affair, and I think you'll find me willing to work on any and all issues, including mine."



Great. And that may very well happen -- most affairs last about 6 months, and less than 10% of affair partners end up married to each other (and 60%+ of those end in divorce). The problem with this is, let's say it happens -- OM "flips out" or otherwise breaks up with your wife. Are you going to want her back? What will have changed about your marriage to ensure that this won't just happen again? Unless you BOTH learn to squarely face the issues that got you to this place, your marriage will be in serious trouble. Add to that the humiliation, damage and downright emasculation that YOU will feel for it to have not been YOUR choice, and you can see the problem here with the "I'll wait to see what she decides" approach.



There are ways to validate her feelings, without agreeing with her position or her choices.

"(Wife), I can see you're confused, and in pain, and it kills me to see you this way. But I cannot live in an open marriage, and I want to be honest with you. What you're doing is wrong, and I pray you'll make the right decision before I lose my love for you."



"Dating" the both of you is not an option, and you need to tell her that -- repeatedly. In fact, so long as she refuses to end her affair and come back and work on her marriage, you need to pull WAAAAYYYY back on even your friendship and your meeting of her emotional needs. You need to treat her kindly, and respectfully, but more like one would treat a sister or a roommate.



RRrrrrr!!! WRONG! Going "melty man" or all "needy/grabby" on her WILL NOT WORK, and, in fact, it is not attractive to her, I can assure you. Every time you do it, while it may "feel" more peaceful to you (and even help you feel better), IT WILL CAUSE HER TO LOSE EVEN MORE RESPECT FOR YOU.

Let me be clear, Lynn: your wife very likely ALREADY has lost a lot of respect for you, based on how you've handled your sitch so far. I'm not trying to beat you up here, just stating a fact, and something we're going to need to deal with. The GOOD news is, no damage is permanent here. There are ways to get the power back to equilibrium in your relationship, and for YOU to begin to assert more control over your own life (notice I said your OWN life, not hers -- that would be "controlling").



Lynn, Divorce Busting is all about the "third choice." Your third choice is to firmly but lovingly state your boundaries to her, then emotionally detach from her while you work on yourself and making yourself the more attractive option, and "shine a path" back toward your marriage. There are some other aspects to this that we can discuss, like exposure of the affair to other influencers in her life, but for now you just need to know that you do NOT need to EITHER divorce her immediately, nor just let her date. We will help you plow this third row!!

Is the OM married?



CANCEL THIS. This can be your very first "180." If she asks you why, just say "I'm no longer comfortable with it. We'll talk soon." Learn to start controlling the agenda more.

Put it this way: SOMEBODY has to be in control of the agenda, the timeline, and the strategies and tactics of your marriage, or of its end. Do you think it should be someone who has the marriage's best interests at heart (pro-marriage ... YOU), or someone who is actively working to destroy it at the moment? (your wife and her boyfriend)

Let that last part sink in deep, and think about it. Because, make no mistake, they ARE having talks about how to destroy your marriage. This doesn't make your wife a bad person, or un-saveable. It just means she's horribly confused, hurting, ADDICTED, and she's NOT making good choices and decisions right now. So YOU need to assert yourself and to begin to make the better ones to try and save your marriage.

We're here to help.

Puppy