Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums Infidelity/Extramarital Affairs/Jealousy Hope4us struggle, part 4

Thanks everyone. I appreciate the comments.

Oh boy, finished that book and is now reading another one that talks about a woman getting a divorce and how wonderful love can be the second time around. It's like I'm reading books to see how we can save our marriage and she's reading books on how wonderful her life is going to be after she deserts her H and kids.

Last night was pretty decent. WW actually shared a funny story from work and we laughed about that. I mowed/trimmed the yard and WW spent the rest of the night finishing her book. I started reading "after the affair" for the second time and when I got up this morning it looked like the book was in a different position than I'd left it so maybe WW took a look at it?

She also got another bathing suit delivered last night. And man is it skimpy. If things weren't the way they are, I'd be jumping up and down right now, but really, she's 47 and has lost a lot of weight (even though she wasn't heavy before) and I just don't think those skimpy suits will look that great on her. Can anyone say MLC?

I was sitting there last night reading and also remembering a thread I read on another one of the forums here that talked about feelings at the beginning of and during early piecing. I don't know that I would say we're there yet, but a lot of those posts really hit home with me. It's like now that it seems the affair is over (even if there is some email/phone contact going on that I don't know about) that a lot of my emotions that I've been keeping in all this time are coming out. I know I've mentioned that before, but it's worse now. And I just don't trust anything and my mind goes through all these scenario's and none of them are good.

The bathing suits for example. WW buying a couple new suits is nothing new. She does that vitrually every year. But now I think about the TM's I saw WW exchanging with the enabler GF a couple months ago that the GF told WW she should go to Fla with her because it would do her some good and there's lots of Australian guys in the area her brother lives there. So now I'm thinking she's going to pull a "I'm going to Fla with GF" and I'll know (at least think I know) that the object is to flirt and possibly hookup with guys. Or maybe even OM flies down also and they spend a "wonderful" week together. She does this a couple times a year and then when DS graduates from H.S. she's on her way, the whole time I'm spending all my money supporting her so she can make her planned exit.

Ok, I know the last part is just my mind going wild. These kinds of things will do that to you. I know I just need to keep my PMA and see if we continue to make any progress. Seems the last couple weeks her good moods out weigh her bad moods and the last 3-4 days there have been no bad moods. Is that a good sign she's coming out of the fog/contuning to progress through WD?

My plan hasn't changed. Keep up like this until July and then reevaluate where we are and make a decision then.

Sorry for the ramble. Ok, don't mention the books. Possibly reinitiate some touching when the time is right.

H4U,

Without any intel in place, it's all guessing at this point. Who knows. The books she's reading would be a concern to me; those are not the reading material of a woman at the tail end of hard withdrawal, but ARE very much the fantasy stuff of a fogged-out wayward. Or she could simply not be very serious about healing her marriage. Again, no way to tell.

Puppy

Thanks Pup. The books are a concern to me, but I am trying to see things from her side and have had these thoughts: IF our marriage is to make it, I don't want it to go back to the way it was (even though I thought it was pretty good). And the book she just finished and the one she's got to read next are talking about life post affair/divorce. So yes, it concerns me, but I also take it that if our marriage is to work out, it will be a different marriage and possibly the post affair love that we COULD share would be what she's longing for? I have discussed with my friend Deb and she told me that she read the same type books while involved in her affair and for her it wasn't really comparing her life with the stories but more an escape from all the pain/turmoil that was her life. She said those books she read really didn't have any bearing on her marriage/affair. So I'm going to take it as such. See, I almost see these books as a positive sign that she's ended contact and is trying to hang on to the feelings she had in the affair. Are they a help? Probably not. Are they really going to make a difference in whether we make it or not? I don't think so, but I could be wrong. Still fogged out? You bet. But there's some baby steps there that at least show me she's been thinking a little more about us, whether on purpose or not. And I'm just going to keep that momentum going as best I can and see what happens in the next month or so.

She could be very well not serious about fixing the marriage. And if that's the case, she'll get her opportunity to be "free" in a month or so.

Are you still talking like Donald Rumsfeld? You bet.




That's my point. When is she going to start to introspect, and working on healing the damage she's caused? Even if it's not working to heal YOUR pain or even the marital pain, it would be a far healthier sign for her to be reading SOMETHING that is helping HERSELF learn and grow from the mistakes she's made, so that she's not doomed to repeat them.

It's just that I think, as we've discussed, that there are things that you can be doing that are "next steps" right now, and your plan seems to be to passively wait out the month and hope for the best.

Puppy

Pup, So help me with what you think those next steps should be?

I think she's spent a lot of time thinking. And I really think she's open to us working it out, but right now I see her as wanting to see if her feelings can change and see if I'm working on the stuff she's told me she has problems with. And Deb told me that her reading those type books really had no bearing on how her sitch played out. And if I say something to WW about the books, it's just another sign that I'm controlling what she thinks/does. So I just see me saying something about the books as doing more harm than the potential good that could come from it.

Here's where I'm coming from. It's been 6 weeks since she claims she told OM NC. The first 3 weeks or so she was down/angry most of the time. Then she started showing me little things every once in a while. This last week/week and a half her good moods far out weigh the bad moods and since really last Thurs she hasn't been in a bad mood. Down a couple times for short durations, but not really bad moods. Since Sat she's been pretty decent to be around, except for that one two hour period Sat evening where she disappeared to the bedroom.

So for the next week or so I've planned on continuing to foster the good will/conversation with her when she's responding. When she's not responding, let her alone, go out myself, work in the yard, etc. Then I'd planned on bringing up her reading "not just friends" and "after the affair" and see what she says. If she flat out says NO, then I'm going to discuss with her just what she plans on doing to see if we can make this work. If she him-haws around, I'll give her a week or so to think on it and then bring it up again. If she's refuses then, I'm going to tell her I can't live like this without her putting in any effort and it's doing me and our son more harm than good because we get our hopes up that things might have a chance and it's obvious she has no intention of trying. Of course, I won't word it as a demand or ultimatum, but more that she really needs to figure out what she wants and then do it because the way we're going is doing more harm than good.

This is where I struggle with what I would like to do, which is tell her to chit or get off the pot and being pleasant and no R talk. I just see her very conflicted right now and for me to push would only make her feel backed into a corner. I feel like she WANTS to see if we can make it work, but if I push it, it's just more controlling on my part.

So....Am I being a little passive right this minute? Yes. Do I think it's the best approach this minute? Yes also. Like DB says, try something and see how it works. I've been not pushing any R stuff for a number of weeks and she seems to be responding in baby steps kind of ways. I just think at this point, me being patient and letting her see the changes I'm working on and her baby stepping is a good sign that could be all blown in a minute if I get overly aggressive.

Maybe I'm wrong.....

Thoughts?

H4U,

We're not far off -- at all -- you and I. I'm agreeing with just about everything you're doing, but have just felt that you're a week or so past the time to do this part of your plan:



and I also see you pursuing more than I'd like. Your wife responded to your firm stance, and now you've shifted to an "I don't want to spook her!" one, in my opinion.

I'm just encouraging you to do more of what has worked for you, and less of what got you into this mess in the first place (NOT that infidelity is your fault -- that's HER decision!).

Does that make sense?

Again, a week or two isn't going to kill you, but since you asked . . .

Puppy

Ok Pup, we're on the same page. Might be a week or so past when I should have done the book thing, but I figured since I'm seeing some positive results of not pushing I would keep that up a little longer before going there.

I'm sure I've mentioned this before, but WW is the Queen of Stubbornville. It's a country that shares a border with Prideland. And I've been trying to keep that in mind in my dealings with her. She had a rather unloving childhood. No real father figure and divorce is rampant in her immediate family. WW has always had a F ya all kind of attitude. Have to admit, that was one of the things that attracted me to her in the beginning.

So once she said she'd go NC, I've been trying to accept that she's being honest. Would I like more intel? Sure, but I can be pretty patient if I know they aren't physically in contact with each other and from the events of the last 4 months, it's pretty apparent to me that OM doesn't want anything to do with her possibly beyond flirting in email. That's what OMW says is his M.O. Love em and leave em. So if they still are talking in email/phone, she's going to be pushing him for more and with him finding out about her STD and him most likely having another GF in his new town, I just don't see him wanting to be with WW. So she's eventually got to figure that out and if I'm the steady, loving person at home like I've been, it's got to have an affect.

With WW's F ya all, I don't need you kind of attitude, I just think that maybe with the small positive steps I'm seeing that it would probably be best to not push at this moment.

Don't get me wrong, that moment is coming in the not too distant future if we aren't making progress, but I'm going to be patient for a little longer.

H4U,

I can certainly respect that. You do seem to always paint the most optimistic scenarios possible. Then again, I probably paint the most PESSIMISTIC ones, but that's why we're here -- to keep you straight.

I would add that people of your wife's personality type (the residents of Stubbornville are also often dual citizens of Entitlement Heights) rarely respond to appeasement or even passivity; in fact, it's a turnoff and often seen as a sign of weakness. Again, as MWD advocates, I would use this time to go back and -- as objectively as possible -- think about what actions of yours have worked. I would contend it is the times when you've been the most forceful.

Puppy

You're right Pup. I always look for the good in people. I've had some hard lessons learned in my business life that can attest to that.

And you don't have to worry about me. Even though I'm the eternal optimist, when I've had enough, my anger pushes me over the edge. In fact, I said to WW one time after I got the ILYBINILWY speech that she's never seen me REALLY MAD. Not many people have as I was always brought up to control that anger. I remember 6 weeks ago I was ready to send off another very forceful letter to WW and you told me that was too forceful for you, so I've got it in me.

And that time may be coming and you could be absolutely correct in that the times I've been forceful is when she's responded. I guess my thinking is that now she claims NC and I'm seeing some small steps forward I'm not going to push this for another month and see if we're making any more progress. Kind of give her the benefit of my optimism. I just want to give us some time to let the anger subside some. Since Nov (when I exposed to OMW) the anger has been palatable. And if she was ever thinking of ending it on her own, by my sometimes misplaced timing, I think it just reinforced her opinion of me being controlling. Not that I'm upset by anything I've done. Quite the opposite, but I've thought long and hard the last few months and I think if I'd had been able to stomach her affair just a little longer, she might have ended it on her own. I'd seen a number of times where he treated her like crap and then was all sorry and chit. If I could have stood by long enough, it probably would have imploded. OMW told me that OM is the most controlling cuss around and I KNOW that I saw evidence of that in his dealings with WW. Heck, while WW and I were on vacation together in Oct he was all over her because she had said we were having a good time and it made him extremely jealous that she was having fun with her HUSBAND!

That's another reason him moving probably hurt us more than anything. No chance for them to really get on each other's nerves when you only see each other every other week.

Anyway, as always, I appreciate you keeping me honest and thinking. The forceful talk is coming, but I've just decided to give her another month or little longer to see if she's being honest about NC and seeing if we can work.

H4U, I would only encourage you to look at BOTH the "rosy scenario" and also alternative, somewhat-scarier scenarios before coming to any conclusions. In almost every case, I see you constructing your own rationale for all of her moods, words and actions, and almost ALWAYS it is the rosiest scenario that you construct, or else a "Could she be doing thus-and-such? Sure, but . . . " and then you self-dismiss your own concerns and warning flags.

It is these -- your OWN warning flags, not mine or ours here -- that I am trying to get you to consider more often.

Even if you throw out my advice as the "low test score," throw out your own as the "high test score" and try to listen to the "sensible center" of folks and to MWD's teachings as well about detachment and boundaries.

Reading your post, I can't help but think that your wife's reaction to you exposing to OMW is driving much of your decision-making. Try to do things because they're the RIGHT thing to do in each situation, and not from a "how will she likely react?" POV.

Puppy