Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums Piecing Our Marriage Back Together Again Sandi's Here in Piecing from Almost WAW

Hi again Forrest,

Went back over your post and I laughed at what you said b/c I have felt the same way about you.....hahahaha. I guess we both must be brutal and hard of hearing. I agree that my life should have been more fulfilling. Thank you for being sorry that it wasn't. I don't know why, but that does mean something to me that you said that.

What do you mean, sweetie? Who am I? (lol)



He is not blind. Why do I have to show him the way? I tried for nearly 4 decades and it didn't work.



Where is "there"? I'm not in MLC any longer. I'm not having an EA. So, where is "there"?




Forrest, if I couldn't do it when I was 18 years old, how the heck do you think I can do it now as broken down and sick as I am? If he is a "real" man, I shouldn't have to opperate him like a puppet.



Like what, Forrest? I'm out of ideas.



Oh I might know more about those rims than you think...lol. I have pictures of my grandparent's cars.....(just kidding). Seriously, I know what you are talking about. What I'm not getting across to some of you is the fact that I have a disease that prevents me from doing most things I once did. Sweetie, if I can't even cook a meal every night when I come in from a job (that is not labor type work), then how am I going to do some "wild thing" to show him I want to be happy. I used to or at least I tried to. I tried to show him how to have fun, but he was just a stick in the mud. So, I stopped trying. It gets tiresome after so many years. I am out of energy. Sad, but true. I need somebody to energize me instead of the other way around.



If you had known me in earlier years, you would think "surprise me"! I never wanted my H to be bored, so, I tried to have those surprises as often as I could.



How? What am I suppose to do? I think you men get off easy by saying that we women have to show you how to be happy and to push your buttons for you to stand up, etc. That's bull! What do single men do? Wait for some woman to come along and tell them to go from point A to point B? I don't buy it. If men know how to win over a girl to marry him, he should know what else he has to do and not just shut down b/c he is M!

Perhaps you see me as a whinner or complainer. I don't mean to be, it's just that I find myself answering the same thing over and over like nobody has heard me. Kind of like a W nagging her H that doesn't hear.....ya think? But, then they have to be told, shown, or taught everything to do.....if I'm understanding you correctly. Gee whiz! All this time, I was giving to much credit to the male gender. Hummmmmm.

You said you really wanted to know what I'm feeling. I am feeling like I am open to suggestions, but I want you to understand where I am coming from also. Please. I really am not trying to be difficult.....(I know you want to yell at this point), so I'll hush.

Sandi

P.S. I am not offended. I can usually give as good as I get. (lol)

Actually Sandi I got home and fired up the internet and came here to look at your post fully expecting to see my self as a full on butt head.

Honestly, I will have to do some catching up. Unless you wanna put the high points here. Even if you do that I will still go back and read most of your stitch. You tend to move around a bit and that makes it hard for me to follow. I came a little unprepared.

I appreciate the response and I will get back with you. Maybe my little DAM brain can give you something new.

Why Forrest, I did not realize how funny you could be!

Look how "Coy" you are.

I like you. We just never got in "sync".

Hi DomR,

How are you doing? It didn't take long for you to find me....hahahaha.

Okay, I don't know exactly how to answer you questions, but I'll give it a shot.



To answer that question, I would have to say yes to both. I was unhappy with myself and that is why the ego-boost was so addictive. I was very unhappy with the circumstances in my life and had been for a long time. It is complicated to try to explain without repeating the same things I have stated in past post/threads. So, I won't bore anyone with all of that.



To tell you the truth, I can't remember if some poster suggested it or I read enough to go to the "list" that tells you what a person in MLC is like and it seem to fit me. If you will read my very first post......it all started with having a very hard time facing my birthday that was approaching and I would turn 60. I was so unhappy with myself. I was unhappy that my youth was gone, my looks, etc. I told the story of how I began playing cheap little games that you can by on a CD. Then, I went on-line to play. I didn't even have the nerve to play against another person for a long time, so I just played the against the computer. So, I wasn't "looking" for anyone or anything except an escape from my misery. You know the rest of the story. I got into meeting a friend through playing a game and there was nothing there except a friendship, but it ended b/c he was going through some personal stuff that I won't get into. Then I just started chatting with anyone. You know some play only to find some woman to flirt with. That was something I never did, but it was "daring" for me and I found it exciting. Remember, I had always been the good girl and proper Christian wife and Church worker. This was "sinful"! Then after a period of time I went to the adult site. I wanted whatever excitement I could receive from those men. Anyway, I said I wasn't going to repeat myself and I almost went through the entire thing again. But, maybe someone new will read it and understand my thread better.



Well, you made that sound so easy! Not so my friend!

Again, I am not sure how to answer you. I am thankful that I don't have those feelings, the anxiety, and all the other stuff I was going through. Right now, I do believe it is over, and why shouldn't I feel thankful for that? But, I had a lot of help from people here on the board that was telling me what I needed to here. Most of the people in MLC are not the ones that come here for advice.....they go on about whatever it is they are seeking. It is their LBS that usually come to the board. I wanted the "grass is greener" just like all the others in MLC, but this board made me believe it doesn't work that way. I had to listen to the truth about what I was looking for and wanting to do.

Several of the men that wrote to me on the board sounded as though they did not think I was doing anything about my stitch. Well, I feel that I worked very hard to come out of that "state" (whatever title you want to give it) and believe me, it was not easy. A person has to see what it is that is happening to them, accept the truth, then want to get out of it, and work very hard to do it. So, with a lot of prayer from myself and my family, and the therapy of this board.....I feel that I came through it. I have referred to it as a "mini" MLC b/c from what most have experienced it last longer than what mine did. But, I am not really sure when mine started. It's not like you can go back and circle the day on the calendar and say...."yep, that's when I entered MLC". Neither can you circle the date that you left MLC b/c it is a process.

For any newcomers that may read this, I certainly do not want to give the wrong advice, but I would like to give them hope. I certainly don't want to imply it is easy. I did not want to do it in the beginning. I think my early post would verify that.



Again though, isn't that what you are doing to me? You are diagnosing what YOU think I went through or what was wrong. Everyone has to take from this board what they believe applies to them and add it with their own internal......God given insight......conciousness...whatever you want to call it, to figure it out for yourself (without going to a professional counselor). BTW, I did go to a professional and on the very first visit she told me that I had done nothing wrong! Even in the state that I was in, I knew she would only tell me what I wanted to hear......not what I NEEDED to hear, which was the truth, and the truth was that I was very wrong in what I was doing.

I do not want to mislead or misdirect anyone that comes to the board.



DomR, sweetie, I have lived with that reality for a long time, but I did not act out the things that I did until I went nuts (lol) and nobody knew who I was any longer. I was not Sandi and my family was thrown for a loop. I knew for years my M sucked, but I never looked at another man......and didn't want one. And, one of the main things, Dom, I simply did not want to be around my family. I ignored my grandchildren, my children....all of them. So, yeah, I think I was pretty self-centered! When a person has beautiful grandchildren and she prefers to contact the OM and be on-line with him rather than take time to be with her family.....something is very wrong. I have a two grown children that are disabled b/c of a disease and yet, I did not want to call them or be around them. All I could think about was what Sandi wanted. I wanted to run away and be alone to do all my sinful things. I wanted to be able to do what people thirty years younger than me does. That sounds like MLC to me.

As far as being on guard that it could happen again.......I certainly am! I now know what can become a snare and it can suck you into deeper things before you realize it. The thing with me was that I knew I was walking a dangerous tightrope, but at that time, I was driven by what Sandi wanted more than what was right & wrong, more than considering my H and my M, more than my own family.

I am still fragile and I realize that, Dom. That is why I have to still work at getting stronger. But for a lot of my "stuff", I had to "accept" myself and where I was in life. I was a grandmother about to turn 60. I was not a model! I was not a sex kitten. My youth was gone and I just had to make the most of my looks that were left (lol). To leave what I have here to go to the "grass that was greener" is crazy.

So to DomR and Forrest and any of my other friends that feel that I have not done anything this past year.......please believe me when I say that I feel that I have gone through something very painful and scary, but now I feel peace. Now I will start to work on other things, but I had to get Sandi right with herself first. That was work!

I do feel comfortable enough in my M to go to Piecing.

Sandi

Forrest, that's what makes people like us interesting....lol.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1166115&page=1&nt=7&fpart=1

Forrest, I gave the link to my first post. This is another if that helps any. The last time I tried to go to Piecing, DomR dragged me to SSM (lol). So, you are correct, I have been all over the place.

I do realize the struggle. While i didn't hang onto thoughts of OM like you did, I have felt the need to get away from the situation on many occasions. I know that a M takes work, but there are just times when I have felt like "what's is the point if it seems like I'm the only one working"... It's frustrating feeling like I'm doing it on my own, so I can totally understand.


You are an amazing woman. I can't imagine feeling like that for so long. I know it probably has a lot to do with how you were raised and how people looked at M when you were first starting out, but still... it's pretty remarkable that you didn't completely walk away. I was raised in a very conservative, religious household, so i know how that can effect your views, but my mom got a divorce after 20 years of M (after my dad cheated and he filed) and has since made it her goal that her girls don't live like she did. To know that after all these years, you are still fighting for your M, has been an inspiration to me. Honestly, if not for these boards and people like you, i probably would have left by now. I'm already tuckered out, i can only imagine how you must feel.

I don't know what else you can do that you are not doing. I don't know what else i can do most of the time. I know that i have to stand up for myself, but other than that, nothing seems to sink in with my H. You've worked hard. Right now, just enjoy at least the ability to look back over the year since this started and see the changes that you have made in yourself and your M. It's obviously better than it was and that's good!

I don't know much about MLCs. I always thought it was when someone reaches a point where they need to feel differently about themselves. Need to feel younger and more vibrant... I think my FIL is had one. He's 47 and went out and bought a fast car (so he can sit in traffic), a xbox 360 and ps3 (that he doesn't play cause he's never been into video games) and started making new younger friends (that he is always complaining he doesn't understand)... He needed to feel different about himself. I think that's the key. Maybe it's not a MLC, but he changed and now he's looking at this stuff like he lost it for a minute.

oddly enough, i feel like i do. Things were bad and you ended up talking to OM. He made you feel better than you had in a long time and I can definately see how that can stick with you. Now you are trying everything you can think of to try and fix your R and yourself and nothing seems to work... I know those feelings... I am there. I may not have as much time in my M or as much life experience, but feelings are feelings regardless of age. We all (women) want to be loved and cherished and respected and valued. We want to feel beautiful. We want support and affection. Not that it justifies any A, but we need those things from our Hs, but sometimes, they don't get it.

ann

Dear Ann, you are such a sweetheart! I need support like you have given me and I can't begin to tell you how much that means to me. Several of the vets that used to talk to me have left the board or was banned, so I miss it a lot.



You are so right about that statement! I still believe that I went through something like a crises......although I guess you could not consider it middle life unless I live a very long time! That term came about years ago when people started noticing the baby boomers (which I am) were going through some type of crisis around the time they were about to turn 40 or 50. At first it was the men and they would do as you described your FIL, then the women started their version. Well, I was just late joining in....but I think I still had the signs. B/c my looks and age started to become too important to me. When I actually discovered that I was embarrased for anyone to know I had a grown grandson.....I knew that wasn't right! I had never in my life felt that before! I did want men to think I was beautiful and sexy and that is what enticed me to the adult sights....plus being very lonely. At the time, our daughter had an accident that forced her to live with us for several months and then her grown son came to live with us. My H spent every waking minute with her....which I didn't really care, but she noticed it and give him a good talking to. She told him that was not right and that he was ignoring me. I didn't know that for a long time afterwards. To escape my lonly feelings and rejection, I came to the internet to find an escape....and I did, but it was not a healthy one.

I did grow up in a strict religious environment that has guided my entire lifestyle. I wanted only to please God in everything I did. That is why it would be so shocking to anyone that knew what I have done. I was shocked at myself, but it was like I couldn't stop myself. When people on the board told me it was addictive and it was a chemical thing going on in my brain.....I didn't know what to think. I could see that it was addictive. My H told me I was addicted to the internet chat rooms. But, it was hard for me to admit to the other part. Especially the OM b/c I wanted to believe that it was love. He did so much for my ego. He had been divorce for many years and had a wonderful career. I could just see us enjoying our retirement years together. In the meantime, my H was hardly working and we were getting deeper and deeper in debt. We almost lost our home. The strange thing is when my H found out about the OM, he made a complete turn about and started smothering me! It was too late for that. At one time, I may have loved it, but then I hated it. It was pressure on me. Everything he did was either a turn-off or pressure. So, I was ready to walk away.

It has been very hard for me to get the OM out of my mind, especially when I get lonely or bored. My physical health has been bad where I could not do the activities that I like to do, so that is a downer also. To just be able to get through the day and not make contact with the OM and be who I really am.....I see that as an accomplishment. When a woman has an EA....it really is an affair of the heart, so it is hard to get over it. I don't think H's realize that just b/c you didn't sleep with the OM didn't mean you can get over him in a day or two. It's like you have given your heart to another person....so, it takes time....a lot of time to get over it.

Do you know what the best thing I have appreciated about everyone on this board has been? Even those that did not agree with my viewpoints, etc., nobody ever said, "Oh gross! You are too old to even think about having adult chats and EA over the internet!" Nobody has ever said that to me or made me feel ashamed of doing that b/c of my age. For that, I am grateful.

I have to agree with your mom about being happy. When I was a girl, one of the biggest scandals to hit our community was a couple that had been married for almost 25 years and then got divorced. But the W was crazy and the H should have left her years ago. However, nobody use to do things like that quite as easily as they do now. I remember hearing the adults say, "Well, I believe if I had lived with her 25 years, I would stick it out." I don't agree. If you are in a stitch like that man was......get out before you go nuts too. He remarried and was very happy the rest of his life.

One thing my D said to me that struck home was the fact that I knew my H would take care of me in my old age......I did not know that for a fact about the OM. B/c my H and I have a history and I know that he would do that for me, without a doubt I know it! I can't say I know without a doubt that the OM would stick with me. He might have put me in a nursing home or just dumped me. She was worried about my health and the fact that I seem to be going down more each year. She had a good point. A couple relies on each other where things like that are concerned as they start to go through another era of their lives. Gosh, it is still hard to believe that I am there....lol. But, I have to accept it. I don't plan to start living like I'm 90 or anything like that. My mother use to say that women should age gracefully....well, I'm not so sure I'm not more like the TV commercials that say I'm gonna fight it....lol.

Well, I've talked a long time and guess I'll let you go for now. Thanks for talking with me Ann, and please drop by often.

Love,
Sandi

Hi Sandi,

thanks for taking the time to reply to what i wrote. i understand it's a pretty "big issue" type thing to think over, and tough to reply to.
i read over what you wrote.

and let me also add, that I am really happy to hear the more positive side of things between you and your H still! YOu have improved things between you two a whole lot in the last few months. Way to go!!



[much longer post snipped ]
Analysing the past a bit further...
for what it's worth, I think the radical changes in you, were more due to the "addiction" factor of your online EAs, (as you put it), rather than MLC.

Which is good for you in one sense! it means no more radically different behaviour from you, since you've 'kicked the habit'.

On the down side though:

People who enter MLC, usually do so, because of themselves. They are adjusting to a new phase in their lives; they are depressed because of it; they would hit that depression, whether their spouse was in their lives or not. Once they (ideally) adjust to the fact that, yes, they really are (40/50/...) years old.. their depression goes away.

Whereas the major cause of your depression was, it seems like, more directly, the way your husband treated you.

You have successfully conquered "your addiction". For this, we all cheer you on

What still worries me, though, is that the original cause of your depression, is still there. And still behaving mostly in the same way. Hence... why you are still battling depression.

As one of your medical practitioners said to you... erm.. I dont remember, but basically alluded to, "you're depressed, and it isnt just 'in your mind': you have a real life cause of your feelings of depresion"


To piggy-back on what forest was saying to you:



He isnt a "real man". Whatver you think is a "real man": he isnt. he will never be.
That doesnt mean that he cant be a "good man" to you.


that's not what he, or I, is saying.

I think what we are both saying, is that "you women" have to tell the man in your life, how YOU can be happy.
[and for the specific case of your husband, that involves him getting up out of his chair and doing things with you ]


I'll stand back now, and let Forrest push at you now. Let's see if he can "push your buttons" better than I can