Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums Midlife Crisis Torn between hope and anger

Lise,

It isn't ANYONE's place to tell you what to do with or for your marriage but you, certain exceptions, if from experience we see you heading down a path full of hurt and pain, besides being an LBS, usually that will be inflicted upon others.

Your marriage is up to you to decide if it is worth attempting to save. Don't let anyone here tell you otherwise.

Your husband sounds like a piece of work, but then sadly, all the spouses here, at the begining and even sometimes at the end, sound that way.

I'm confused. Did he just have oral sex with these other women? Does that somehow make it okay???? What possible intimacy could he have been having with these women that would make it okay???

Look - I can tell he's messed with your head a lot. Let's get a few things straight, shall we?

- whatever he may have felt was lacking in your R, that is NOT an excuse to cheat. It's a reason to go to marriage counseling with your spouse.

- his reluctance to commit to traditional vows when you married was, in retrospect, probably the first clue that he was ambivalent about this whole monogamy thing. Who would suspect that? Don't blame yourself. He entered the marriage under false pretenses. You could get an annulment in the Catholic Church for stuff like this, I believe.

- If you believe he never had sex with these women and oW, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell to you.

- Don't beat yourself up thinking your whole marriage was a sham, either. It wasn't. Whatever part of him was capable of a R with you did so. It's just that he wasn't totally up to the job of being the good man you thought he could be. So now he has to sink to his level, with an adulterous woman. (These guys usually do look back eventually btw, and miss the good man they were when married to you. It's just too much of a strain for them, though.)

- he didn;t do any of this because of some flaw in YOU. He did all of this because of a flaw in HIM.

Ellie

I know, I know... everything you're saying is true. My closest friends who know the whole story say all the same things. We had a good marriage though...when it wasn't being a bad marriage, that is. We created an incredible life together, had two fantastic sons, traveled the world. I enjoyed sharing the adventures of life with him. I thought our differences balanced each other, I thought that together we were greater than apart. I spent so much energy trying to see H as the person I WANTED him to be - that's been my problem all along. It's still my problem because now I am convincing myself that if he gets through this MLC (and wants to come home) he will be a changed man and will be worth taking back into my life. I think I haven't learned anything...or maybe it will be true this time...I am so confused...

ellie

You said pretty much everything I was thinking.

Lise-

I know how you feel about alot of what you mentioned. It's very hard to accept that you thought your H was different than he turned out to be. Many, MANY of us have been through this. It's hard to deal with, but you will in time. It makes you doubt yourself...and your judgement of people..but it will get better.

I think right now, like someone else mentioned, you have to try to see that there is nothing that you're going to do that will make a difference in your Hs decisions, choices and lifestyle.

It may be your Hs crisis(or not), but it is YOUR time to take control of your life. Do NOT let what he's doing control you.

As far as wondering what type of decision you would make regarding taking him back at some time, but that aside...way on the backburner. You don't even want to think about that until you've done some extensive work on yourself. YOU have to become a different person. You have discover yourself all over again. Not as someone's wife ...but you. You have to regain your own self-confidence, respect and strength.

Just like you wouldn't let a 3 yr old child make life changing decisions, you don't want to put yourself into the mindset that you have to know how you're going to feel down the road. You've got some growing to do, and once you're well on your way, THEN you can make some well thought out decisions.

If you're someone that wants to make a stand for your marriage..thats fine, and I don't think anyone here will try to talk you out of it. But being a stander doesn't mean going dormant until your spouse realizes the mistakes they've made. You still go on living, learning and growing..inside. You strengthen yourself. You grow aware of yourself. You will find out that you're so much stronger than you ever thought.

But you need to let go of your mind obsessing over your H and what he's done in his life. You can't change anything about him, but you can change yourself. Maybe down the road, he'll want to change his life..but that will be his decision, and his own work to do...not yours. You can't fix him..don't even try, or entertain the thought. And don't let yourself feel that you're responsible for any of the choices he's made during your marriage...YOU ARE NOT.

You take care of your kids and yourself. You live a loving , stable life for them and yourself.

As far as counting the days he's been gone or you've talked to him...you're doing good. I remember counting the hours! LOL

Whate

How many times am I going to have to be told these things before they finally sink into my reality and my perception of who I am?

Some days I feel so strong and certain of who I am and where I want to be going. H left me with all of the wonderful life we created, he just took himself out of it. He's starting from scratch with the OW, which I guess is part of what MLC is about, wanting to leave behind the baggage and responsibilities of his previous life. I've got the family, the friends, the home and the job. I'm still doing everything (mostly) that I want to be doing and always have been doing. But it feels so different doing it alone. I find myself starting to doubt what I thought I wanted. Was I only wanting it because he wanted it too? Can I even make my life happen without him? ...

Eeeeek, I know how that sounds and I'm not really such a complete wimpy wus. (In a recent email H actually claimed he has been intimidated by me for most of our marriage.) It's just that H and I did practically everything together and I feel so empty now. I never realized how dependent I was on his presence and support to give my life meaning. I guess that's why I tolerated so much of his bad behavior.

I wonder sometimes if he will realize how much he needs me, except he's not in the same position as I am since he is running into the care of the OW. I wonder if she'll pay our car insurance that I just found out bounced due to insufficient funds in his bank account. That was the only bill I left for him to take care of since he insisted he add his new car to our joint policy and I didn't want to pay for a car that was given to him by the OW. Bad decision. I am separating everything now. And when I see him next week we are going to do some serious negotiating about asset protection and child support. I don't expect he will appreciate the reality check.

Hi Lise;

I don't think I've ever posted to you but I read everyones posts and take it all in...It's amazing how many of us there are out there...this board has been my saving grace...

I was drawn to a part of your post because just the other night my D15 was texting me and I had apologized for all this and what she is having to go through and this is what she said...
"Mom, it's not your fault...it's dads...I think you were the perfect wife and mother and dad couldn't handle it...he needed someone equally as low as he is. He knew he didn't deserve you,so really you're gaining something, realizing who is true in your life, while he is losing everything."

That is from a 15 yr old child who my H thinks doesn't understand relationships....my oh my....she is wise beyond her years...that statement made me think and I think someone spoke through her to deliver it....

I feel the same things you do....I will be married 24 years in October...H's OW's birthday....how's that for a smack in the face..I'm realizing that H has the problem and it's not me...
I hope he comes to his senses but who knows, he seems to be loving life right now...

Take Care;
Treese

What a wise and wonderful D you have, Treese. What a gift our children are. They bring out the best in me and they are what helps me survive my low moments.

I get most upset about my situation when I think of its effect on my S's (14&16) You know, you just want the best for your kids and it stinks when sh*t happens and you can't do anything about it.

Two years ago when H first left because of OW, it killed me when I realized we would have to tell the boys what was going on. They obviously knew we had been fighting, but when he stood there and told them to their faces that he was in love with another woman, it was the lowest point in my entire life. All I could think about was how this would totally color the rest of their lives and perceptions of what love and relationships are.

At the time, my oldest was 14 and he told me, "Dad should read that article in National Geographic about love and the chemical high you get that doesn't last." I was astonished at his pragmatic perspective. My youngest was 12 and he just cried. Now that H is gone again, S16 is keeping his distance from his dad, and S14 acts like it doesn't bother him at all. In reality, not much has changed in their lives since I'm busting my butt to make sure everything is still flowing as they expect. There is a big gap, though, that everyone tries to ignore.

I wish my boys would talk more about what they are feeling. I don't push it, and they seem fine, but it's got to be confusing to them. S16 refused to go to the counselor that I scheduled for him. I worry about him bottling up his emotions, he's a very empathetic person with a huge heart just waiting to be broken. I never thought his dad would be the one to do it. S14 only put up the slightest resistance to counseling and I think he enjoyed complaining about how his parents have ruined his life. He came out pretty happy that someone had finally listened to him.

Because what H is doing is a repeat of his father and grandfather, I am particularly determined to stop this pattern with my sons' generation. Any ideas? I think that to start with, not ignoring the issues will help. I so wish that H's parents had sat us down when we were getting married and made sure we asked ourselves the right questions and knew what we were committing to. We probably wouldn't have listened but at least H couldn't have used the excuses he did to cheat on me all those years.

H wants the boys to visit him at the end of the month. He thinks I'm trying to make it difficult for him, but all I'm doing is leaving it up to them to decide. I did tell them that they shouldn't feel like it is THEIR responsibility to go to their dad's place. It is HIS responsibility to find ways to be in their lives. Is that the wrong impression to give them? I just feel like they are teenagers now and have their own lives they want to start living. H keeps treating them like little kids and he wants them to see what he is doing and to be proud of him, but it's more for him than them that he wants that. What is there for them to be proud of - he's abandoning his family and leeching off OW. Maybe I am trying to make it difficult for him. Should I let go of thinking that he should be a better dad than he is?

Yes, you should let go.
He is what he is. Part of who he is, is your sons' father.
They will see him for who he is. I don't advise trying to keep your kids from their father. They are too young. If I were you I would encourage a relationship there. They need a father, even a broken one.

I am totally down with you on interrupting the pattern. Maybe in a year or two you can have a heart-to-heart with the boys, Have a cold look at what their great-grandfather did, their grandfather, their father - and the impact it had. Not to blame anyone, just to have a look and ask - was the outcome good? And then, basically, challenge them and say, it is up to them.

It's just woulda-coulda thinking to say "I wish H's parents had sat down with us when we were getting married.... H couldn't have used the excuses he did to cheat on me all those years." A conversation with H's parents would not have stopped his rationalization. I had the conversation you described - My wife and I had that conversation with the priest who married us. I said I would not get divorced, period. She agreed. We talked about the hard times that would most certainly come. We didn't know what they would be, but we knew they'd come. We agreed we would see each other through.

When I recalled this conversation to her a couple months ago, she said "I didn't know it would be like THIS." Their power to rationalize and excuse knows no bounds.

Good advice.

I have to be careful not to let my own anger and disappointment at H spill over into how I deal with the issues with our sons. I KNOW that already, it's just hard to put peacefulness into practice, to set aside the injustice of it. He seems to expect me to go out of my way to make it easier for him to see the boys when HE is the one who moved so far away! I resent that incredibly. Am I wrong to think it is HIS responsibility to come get the boys if he wants to be with them? He doesn't even have a job, and I am the one trying to juggle 2 jobs and keeping a stable home for the boys. I don't have time to be running to the greyhound station in the middle of the night, much less spending 2 days shuttling them to another state.

no, you're not wrong. I agree with you.
You can make an effort but there ought to be some equity here. And with him having no job, well, he should have time on his hands, no?

I agree with you on that.