Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums Piecing Our Marriage Back Together Again Advice please: marriage counselling after 1 year

OK, folks, another question:
Is it "piecing" if H says he wants "to try," still lives in his cave, gets me to go to MC after a year to angle to go along on a trip with no commitment, but shows no interest in making any plans for the future?

For example, we are invited to a wedding of his close relatives later in June. We had talked about going together, back when we were planning to go to Costa Rica together.

Well, the invitation arrived and I asked him if he still wanted me to go. He said "sure, that's fine, if you want to..." My response was gentle, but true, that it sounded like such a lukewarm invitation from him, that it did not sound like much fun for me to go to all the trouble to tag along (it would take a whole weekend, because it is several hundred miles away.) So I am about to mail off registration to go to another dance camp weekend, instead.

I have walked on eggshells for so long, trying to get a life, but not "reject" him--he is extremely sensitive and reactive if he feels like I am rejecting him. Crazy, huh, since he told me that he didn't love me enough to stay with me, moved out, and "dated" other women?

OK, my discouragement is showing. I have vowed not to take dramatic action, until I feel a sense of calm resolve that I no longer want the marriage. But the truth is that our kids are close to grown, and he is treating me so shabbily. There is a fine line between humility (where I have learned some valuable lessons) and humiliation!

Also, I am starting to feel discouraged that my H of 30 years is depressed, indecisive to a crazy degree, and, to be honest, a huge drag to be around. He is so self-absorbed that I really have the feeling that he does not see me, or have the capacity for empathy. Is this what I want? (rhetorical question--I know that only I can answer that one, and I am struggling with it!)

Anyway, I am fighting the urge to burn bridges, because my feelings are so hurt. I am starting to think maybe I really would be better off without him. It is almost hard to believe that I have been in limbo this long, already!

OK, in his defense, he has come some distance toward me, and no longer believes that I am responsible for his unhappiness. He just obviously can't feel sure that he will ever feel happy again, and maybe the grass really is greener!

So, is this piecing? Or, am I in the wrong place?

Hello farmgirl,

I've only read through this thread, so I can't say that I'm an expert on your situation. A couple things jump out at me though in your interactions with your H.


While I can understand your reluctance to spend that much time in the car with him, your response seems like you were searching for more concrete invitation. I don't know your H, so maybe he usually is more enthusiastic when he asks you to do something or is he pretty nonchalant most of the time? For his perspective you could be rejecting him when he sees this as working on things. Just a thought, but maybe you could talk to him about what his thoughts for the weekend were.

When I look back at what brought my W and I together again, several factors came into play. First, she realized that she wanted to come back (it seems your H probably does at some level too) but she couldn't see a path to reconciliation. This was a big step for her because she had to let go of a lot things from the past. I know it wasn't easy for her. Second, I had to let go of my hurt and show her the unconditional love that I felt in my heart. She told me many times that just didn't see how things could work for us again or that she didn't see how I could still love her. Your H probably doesn't say those same things, but he may say something similar from time to time. Use those as building moments. Let your love for him show through in those moments.

I don't know if you'll find any of this helpful or not, but you seem to be at the same place I was at one point. I know what worked for me, so I thought that I would share. I hope you have a beautiful day.

Peace,
B

B,
Thank you--after I read your reply, I thought I would just be direct but kind. H called to say he was planning to come work on the old tractor this evening, and hopefully do some mowing in the pasture.

So I decided to take a leap of faith, that maybe he has come back close enough for us to actually talk about something, without scaring him to death!

I told him with reference to the wedding that I couldn't really tell if he wanted me to go or not, but my alternative plan (dance camp) already had a waiting list. His response was he would like to keep open the option of going to the wedding as a family.

I explained that I was planning to share a room at the camp with a friend from my book group, and would not want to stand her up at the last minute, but if we figured it out relatively soon, I could get a refund and my friend could arrange another roommate.

So, he keeps hinting at a reconciliation. I decided to go ahead and tell the rest of the story to him about the other wedding in Costa Rica (short synopsis: We were supposed to go together--daughter of 30+ year friends--he backed out--he changed his mind and wants to go with no commitment--I told him "too early.")

I told him I have been invited to hang out with friends of friends at a remote surfing location, take some lessons, etc. I said I just wanted him to know, in case it was a factor, but I would hate to think that alone was the reason for a reconciliation. (The only reason I told him all that is that he has wanted to go surfing for his whole life, and I think he wants to come home, but can't come up with a face-saving way to do it, after all of the crazy things he has said...)

Anyway, I have given him a big opening, and I think he wants to make the leap, but is still scared. I am trying to be generous and welcoming, but not try to push him over the edge. Truly, I think I could have a good time, either way--he commits and goes, or can't commit yet, and I go alone to surf and dance!

Sometimes, life is sweet. I just wish my H knew he loved me, and we could have a fairy tale ending to our story. (LOL)

So, thanks for the thoughts--they do give me a new perspective, as I continue to try to be wise, and loving, and honest, and kind.

Farmgirl,
I think it's fine that you're posting on the Piecing forum. There is no consensus as far as a definition of Piecing. IMO, it sounds like you two are not quite yet Piecing, though the distance between the two of you is lessening.

I wouldn't get too caught-up in whether or not you fit the Piecing category. What's most important is that you maintain your GAL activities, and cultivating a happiness mindset.

I think you're right to consider when and how you should spend time with your H. If there isn't potential for it to be enjoyable or constructive, than time apart is the better option.

I can understand your ambivalence about the M, however he is showing signs of life, so hopefully he is getting to a place where Piecing can begin to occur in the M.

CL

Well, I sure could use some encouragement. I am having such a hard time hanging in there with a H who keeps saying crazy things, but holding out major hope for a reconciliation...

He is here a lot, but has not moved in, and says he wants "to try" and wants to take a trip with me, but keeps mentioning "if" we get back together. Meanwhile, last night he said he wants to buy a painting to decorate his apartment, so it doesn't sound like he has immediate plans to move home.

Plus, he has told our 17 year old son that he is thinking about getting a bigger apartment, which is the opposite of what he tells me. Our son is away at school, but will be home for the summer, so I feel for the limbo he is living with, too.

We have gone back to MC twice, and H insisted that it was "not fair" that I "unilaterally decreed" that he not travel to Costa Rica to the wedding, after he has changed his mind about going at least 5 times.

Maybe I should not have gone there, but I finally told him that he had said he was going on the trip, I had started to look forward to it, and, as far as changing his mind again, in my opinion, he can go to Costa Rica or go to hell!

This is what I am afraid of--that he really is crazy. I thought we were "piecing", but he is so careful not to fully commit to the process that it feels as though he is deliberately trying to make me feel crazy. And it is working!

Did anyone out there REALLY start to doubt that they wanted their M after such shabby treatment? This indecision is downright insulting! I try to have compassion for him, almost as though he has a brain tumor, but I really feel like he is F'ing with me.

I have loved this man for 30 years, and I am rapidly losing respect for him. To me, he is starting to look more and more like an emotionally limited old man, who likes to get his way, fantasizes about young women, and lacks much empathy or appreciation for me.

We are the same age, but I have stayed in shape, and look relatively young for my age. I have always had a life--GAL is not the issue, unless it is a life without him. I have always been a pretty upbeat person, have a lot of friends and interests, but have been willing to live with his depression and irritability.

Sorry to be so depressing, myself, but our 30th anniversary is coming up, and, for me, it feels big. I am pretty burned out on keeping my lip "zipped"--I can put up with a lot if I feel appreciated, which I don't! I just feel like he is resigning himself to life with me, because it is better than the alternatives. (That was how he phrased it in MC--that he had to decide if he was going "to settle" for me, or strike out on his own.)

So, this is the big question: Is there really any realistic hope that my H will "step up" and meet me halfway, or is the question really one of accepting that he is who he is. Truthfully, I don't want to settle for that.

Is there anyone out there who made it through major second thoughts of their own, while waiting for their MLC spouse? Please tell me it is worth it (if it is.)

Farmgirl,
I'm wondering if you can identify any positives about your H.

Has he been making any progress with his own personal growth?

Can you identify any progress in the M and R?

What's keeping me going is that my situation has improved a great deal from a year ago, so I feel it deserves a chance to see if the positives move us from friendship to intimacy at some point.

Everyone has to determine their own time frames, but the one I used when there was distance in the M, last year, was if things stayed distant for a year or more, than I would have to reconsider the M. I think a year is long enough to wait for any signs of improvement, no matter how small.

CL

Sorry this is so long. We go back to MC this afternoon and I am trying to get understand what is happening inside me.

Thanks for that perspective...Yes, I do see positive changes--a lot of them. He is working on personal growth--it is like a miracle--and wants to change certain things about himself.

What is painful for me is to realize that he really did resent me bitterly for the 20 years we raised kids together. Truthfully, I sort of gave up on him, because nothing I did seemed to work, and I just decided to live with the fact that he was easily frustrated and irritable. After all, he deeply loved our kids, and appeared to love me, despite his irritability. He worked hard to support his family, and I just concluded that was how he showed love.

I understand that no-one comes home to an angry spouse, so I am still committed to the thought that I can be happy either way. The interesting thing to me is that I am growing increasingly ambivalent as a result.

I felt deeply betrayed by his MLC upwelling of bitterness and the fact that he really believed the crazy things he was saying...I had tried in every way I could to "fix" things between us for years, until I just kind of dropped it, and concluded he is not capable of much intimacy.

Well, now I still don't believe he is capable of much intimacy, so now it is my turn to decide if I'm going to settle for him settling for me.

I would feel so different if he was telling me he loves me, and would stop saying "if..." He obviously regrets how he behaved, and wants to make it better, but just can't bring himself to take the leap.

So, we go back to MC today, and I am afraid to speak the truth--that I have been deeply wounded by this betrayal, am insulted by his continuing indecision, and am so weary of all of this that I am feeling increasingly ambivalent, myself. His indecision feels extremely passive aggressive--on some level (of unacknowledged anger) he must know how much this continues to hurt me. To me it feels like a power play, not the sort of embracing love and respectful intimacy that I want out of life.

I think this is what Michelle was talking about in the DR book--now that he is coming back (which I really think he is), I am feeling a lot of emotion that I have worked so hard not to express.

So, for the record, some positives: He does not act so angry. He has stopped saying certain hurtful things (will he ever recant?) He listens. He wants to go on this trip with me. He has said several positive things about realizing what I did for the family all those years. He is working on personal growth (He calls "radical acceptance" his "personal liberation theology.")

I guess this is what "one day at a time" means. It is just surprising to me to feel like ending the marriage just as it is getting better!

I am trying to be wise--to not act on the basis of these feelings of hurt--to wait until I feel centered and loving.

Another year, maybe? That is really beyond what I ever thought I would be able to do. I have already hung in there for almost 2 years. I am starting to think that I am contributing to this limbo by being so willing to wait.

Maybe feeling less willing to wait is actually a good thing--a 180. What do you think?

Thanks to all who read this long post!

Farmgirl,
Do you believe that MC is helping the R move forward? What are the goals of the MC?

Is the emphasis on understanding the past? Is there any emphasis on changing relational patterns or improving skills?

Do you respect the therapist and agree with his/her approach and framework?

I'm wondering if some of your thoughts and feeling would be better disclosed in an individual session versus a marital one.

The reason you're considering leaving the M is because of his lack of intimacy skills and your prediction that he is not capable of meeting your needs in that area. Is that correct?

CL

CL,
Thank you for your questions.

I do respect the MC therapist--he came highly recommended and is one of the best. I think he totally "gets it" and wants to help us save our marriage. Also, my H likes and trusts him, even when the therapist says things to him like "even though you can be an a-hole at times..."

I think you are probably right that some of my thoughts and feelings are better disclosed in an individual session, which I have done with my own therapist that I see perhaps monthly. She, however, seems to be of the opinion that despite all these years invested in the marriage, perhaps I should get out--that I have settled for crumbs for years, that I am "a catch," that my H is quite narcissistic etc. (Did you read the NYT article a while back, written by a therapist: MLC? Maybe he's just a narcissistic jerk having a meltdown?) So, I am not sure that she is helping my outlook, to say the least!

You are right that I'm considering leaving the M because of his lack of intimacy skills. I am totally burned out on his self-absorbed depression and lack of empathy for me. He seems to be so guarded against realizing how much his behavior hurts my feelings, and I don't think it is productive for me to try to tell him.

So I make jokes about "the care and feeding of your woman" to try to gently clue him in. Sometimes he seems to get it, seems to be trying to make an effort, but he is in the habit of making little jabs at me, and I don't want to spend the rest of my life putting up with someone who feels like that is acceptable.

I almost feel like he needs to get an emotional response out of me, and has been in the habit of not relenting until he succeeds. So, obviously, I need to stop responding to his little (and big) jabs, but that is not how I want to live my life.

So, I know I am making him sound like a garden-variety a-hole. However, he has his fine points, and we have a long history, have built a life, a business, a home, and will share children and grandchildren the rest of our lives.

Actually, I think he is the one who stands to lose if I bail out--I have friends and relate well to people, and he does not have those skills.

So, I want to give him every chance, to feel certain if I leave him, etc. But, I am very discouraged about the idea of a future with him. At this point the only motivation for him to change is that he is depressed and unhappy--not that he wants to enjoy seeing me happy. (Actually, I suspect that he feels like my happiness came at his expense, which is just more of his resentment.)

Well, I have about talked myself into leaving him, the more I write about this...So, is it only fair to let him know how close to that I feel? Perhaps it would shake us out of this infernal limbo...

Hi Farmgirl,

I've read your entire thread here and do see a lot of positives. I understand exactly how you feel as I've been there myself. What happend in my sit is not entirely relevant but for one part. You seem to be teetering between is this what I want or not, but hiding it. I feel confident that in my sitch my h did not start to consider coming home until I was very close to no longer having the door open for him to do so. I waited to tell him that but eventually I did. It seemed like knowing or at least believing that he could always just come home kept him away even when I was no longer saying he could or asking or even acting like it mattered if he did or not. When I finally told him that the choice may no longer be his that the door to that possibility would soon close for him (I was feeling better and OK with him not being with me, finally happy again, confident, GAl and all that) something changed. Was it a risk? sure knowing that I might not take him back could have and may have made it more difficult for him to say he might want to but I think my letting him know the option would not forever be there helped to push him along.

LL