Talking about you "spiritually dying if you suffered in your marriage any further", is new age mysticism mumbo jumbo. It's not in the bible, Amy. its actually rather ANTI-biblical.
I didn't make the statement that you put in quotations, Dom. I said if I'd have stayed in that place I allowed guilt to take me, I'd have died spiritually. It was a dramatic statement but it was a dramatic and dark place I ventured into. It would have cost me my salvation because I knew better than to even go there but I did because I COULD NOT LIVE WITH THE GUILT. But it was while I was "there" that I asked myself "what the HELL are you doing?" Christ did NOT die for me so I could end up like THAT. He didn't bring me this far for my story - my TESTIMONY - to end up like that, with me lost. He didn't set me free so I'd be entangled yet again by the yoke of bondage to GUILT. That just isn't what happened. When that hit me and I comprehended it IN MY SPIRIT, I was done. Guilt lost it's stronghold and THIS is my REAL stand.
Quote:
I say divorce, because the way you wrote that you were "moving on", made it sound like you were totally giving up on your marriage, and proceeding in the direction of divorce. Again, if this is a false assumption on my part, please let make know, and I will apologise for the misunderstanding.
I do NOT feel released to actually file a complaint for divorce yet.
1. You have yet again exercised what you apparently think is your role of judge, this time with me. Even though you don't know me at all. Clearly, in your world, you are the authority on things of God, and any who disagree with you are bound for hell. In that regard then, you would be right about me - I think your accusations and recriminations of others spiritual standing is pharasitical...at best.
2. I have been a Christian since 1978. Not some new age, touchy feely, politically correct form of Christianity. Just your straight ahead protestant, believe in the Bible as the word of God form of Christianity. I have been in ministry, I have served as worship leader, small group leader, deacon, youth leader, and hope to eventually work in ministry through my later years.
(I say none of this to IMPRESS, I simply want to make myself clear on what my particular TAKE on MY christianity has been like.)
3. You seem to be intent upon telling Amy (and I'm presuming others) that she has not yet atoned for her sins regarding her marital relationship. Are we reading the same bible my friend? Jesus called those who preach as you do, hypocrites.
Check this one out...
"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! ... you have neglected the more important matters of the law - justice, mercy, and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former." Matt 23:23,24
You can't cast aside my comments by accusing me of being politically correct.
You are right - the body of Christ is called to encourage, teach, and rebuke each other. But it is the apostle Paul who reminds us that we do not all understand the same.
"Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgement on disputable matters. One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him ." Romans 14:1-3
The Bible does not directly speak to every life mess that we face. In the end we are left to, through prayer and guidance, make our way through things we never expected to encounter.
The Bible does not speak about MLC. And nowhere does it say that if you had a three year MLC, you better come back and devote three years of your life and soul to being a servant to your spouse. YOU might feel that way, but this certainly falls in to the disputable matters column that Paul talks about.
Christ brought grace. The apostle Paul makes it clear through his letters that living in this grace is the key to living a life that would please our Father. The Pharisees were scorned and criticized by Christ because they sought to leave the people of God under bondage, and Christ would have none of that.
On a more specific note, I've not yet heard Amy talk of divorcing her husband. If you've followed along with her story (and you've made it clear that such knowledge is not important to you) you would realize that her recent breakthrough has come in the area of no longer allowing herself to be in bondage to the mistakes that she has made. In the end, these are HER decisions, and her work on this board, both in words to others and in sharing her tale, provides her with more than enough credibility to suggest that we can confidently allow her to make her way, knowing that she will always be seeking God's will for her and her family.
Your words bring bondage. Color them as you like.
Blessings,
Bill
Thank you, Bill.
I am blessed by your presence here and your speaking on these issues.
AMY, You have NO REASON to feel bad, or a failure. Yes, what you did a long time back was very bad and wrong. You admited it, apologized to all parties concerned, and tried with everything in you to make amends for it. It takes a HUGE amount of courage to do what you did and I salute you for it! AMY, you are the ONLY person that I have seen on here that has come out of an MLC and did everything to make it right. Unfortunately for you, Jeff is all about kicking the dog for the rest of his life. I feel as though he has made a sad choice, but it is in fact his to make. If that is the way he feels about things, I think it should be him that mans up and ends this, not you. Its not fair to either one of you.
hell, if people still threw at me all crap I've done through the years, I'd be one sorry mofo.
forgiveness works both ways.
you've paid your dues sistah, time to get on with it, whatever that may mean for you. waking up and kicking yourself in the nuts every morning serves no one. and if folks think God wants you to suffer, well, fffffppppt on that.
jeanette she meant amy and sg are alot alike. were you having a blondish moment. Amy is getting back on her horse again.
Hi Happsters!
Ok...so it wasn't quite as funny as when I typed it?? I knew who she meant..it was more cos of the typo where sg didn't say who and then I inserted me and then said wait maybe it's not me then I started second guessing and then.....
you said I had a blondish moment
I am a natural blonde! I have the baby pics to prove it.
Change the Policy. Allow PM's Free all of us.
Also some new and improved emoticons would be nice!
Ok...so it wasn't quite as funny as when I typed it?? I knew who she meant..it was more cos of the typo where sg didn't say who and then I inserted me and then said wait maybe it's not me then I started second guessing and then.....
you said I had a blondish moment
I am a natural blonde! I have the baby pics to prove it.
Talking about you "spiritually dying if you suffered in your marriage any further", is new age mysticism mumbo jumbo.
I didn't make the statement that you put in quotations, Dom. I said if I'd have stayed in that place I allowed guilt to take me, I'd have died spiritually.
Ah, sorry that I misunderstood your context for "spiritually dying". Thank you for clearing up that misunderstanding.
Originally Posted By: AmyC
Quote:
I say divorce, because the way you wrote that you were "moving on", made it sound like you were totally giving up on your marriage, and proceeding in the direction of divorce. Again, if this is a false assumption on my part, please let make know, and I will apologise for the misunderstanding.
I do NOT feel released to actually file a complaint for divorce yet.
But I refuse to wear the shackles anymore.
So I did read you correctly on that one, at least.
Lots of interesting nuances to what you wrote there. "marriage == shackles", eh?
well.. yes. it can be like that sometimes. Marriage is a "bond". That bond can be either a comfortable, or uncomfortable one. When it's uncomfortable, it can feel like shackles, no argument there.
So... what are you using as your yardstick to determine when to "throw off your shackles" and file for divorce, then? When it 'feels right' to you? Or, when you have biblical justification for divorce?
Is your higher level goal "not having to try so hard", at least for a time of rest for yourself. And divorce is the only way you can foresee having "rest" for yourself?
In theory, that's what the original intent of separation was: a cooling off period. Nowadays, most people use it as an excuse and license to go screw other people, rather than "a time apart to regain calm and reflect on the marriage". But... I think that's what it's *supposed* to be for, personally.
In a separation, you can be completely dark, except for things that you have to deal with together. Those things that you "have to deal with" together, still have to be dealt with even after divorce, for the most part. So divorce wont solve anything there.
What are you looking for? A new man? Or rest?
My current status: june 2006. Wife ran out and filed D. Finalized Jan 11, 2010, after 12.5 years M. 3 wonderful sons caught in the middle
You chastise me for "passing judgement" on Amy... yet you have no hesitation in "subtly" (or not so subtly) calling me a pharisee. In two separate posts. Not to mention making various "clear" claims about "my world". And making presumptions about me (that aren't true, I might add)
That would be... "judging me". That would make you a member in good standing, of the hypocrite club.
Also note, that in the passage you quote, Jesus speaks about justice, mercy, and faithfulness IN ADDITION TO the law. Not "instead of".
It is written that Christians are no longer "bound by" the old testament law". However, "the law" is still held up as a reflection of God's wishes for how we should behave. (excluding the ritualistic, temple-oriented bits, o course). That would seem to include the bits about atonement for injury & theft done to others.
A side note for the biblically curious: What is written in the bible about atonement for theft, is NOT "an eye for an eye". It is different for theft, rather than bodily harm.
Personally, I think that what is written about marriage, takes even higher precedence then the "theft" issue. But what is written about marriage, is even more strongly binding. So I'm suggesting that if someone does not feel up to fulfulling the stronger one, then perhaps the lesser one is something to keep in mind.
Quote:
The Bible does not speak about MLC.
Not per se. Although it certainly addresses the behaviours that often result as choices during an MLC.
More importantly though, it DOES speak very specifically, about Marriage, and when it is allowable to file for divorce, in God's eyes.
Last edited by Dom R; 04/28/0805:30 AM.
My current status: june 2006. Wife ran out and filed D. Finalized Jan 11, 2010, after 12.5 years M. 3 wonderful sons caught in the middle
