Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums We're separated--What Now? AmyC

no, not what I was getting at.
That's the "stop stealing" part. Which is obviously important but what you quoted says nothing about making up for what you have stolen.
God tells us specifically to make it up to the person we stole from, and how much to make it up to them. The "sharing with anyone in need" bit is more about being a good Christian in general, really.

With all due respect Dom, you really ought to spend some time reading my old threads before you quote scripture to me and suggest I haven't "done" enough yet.

In addition to the things I have done, changes I have made and pride I have swallowed, you might also pay attention to the story of my marriage that preceded my MLC. Particularly his dysfunctional behaviors, which he is still firmly rooted in and shows no intention of wanting to change.

Dom, I walked this walk faithfully by the Word of God for a very long time and aside from the friendship that was restored, nothing else happened. Guilt soon overwhelmed me to such an extent that I was finding it unable to live with. While in that mindset, I allowed some things to be done to me that were very bad, very painful and very deviant - because I thought deep in my heart that I deserved it. Don't you dare suggest to me I have not paid. I have paid. I have paid by watching my children suffer, my extended family members be unsure of how to refer to my husband and me now, living with my own vivid sense of loss and watching my husband suffer in prideful obstinance instead of letting me help him; letting me BE his wife. And these are just words - do find the threads if you'd like the details of how I have suffered, picked myself up to walk right back into the fire and keep swinging and then finally, I couldn't do it anymore. I just couldn't get back up one more time. THAT is when the enemy had me, Dom. All that I did for my family that was good and restorative WASN'T. And I hated myself for not praying years ago - before the MLC - hated myself for not knowing that prayer was a tool against alcoholism - hated myself for being so ignorant all those years - then I hated myself for having an affair, for hurting my husband and for destroying my family. I had to WALK in that DAY AFTER DAY and it was impossible to live with. I couldn't punish myself ENOUGH so I found someone else that would. Do you know there are people that do that sh*t for FUN? Well there ARE. So I descended into the darkest place of my life in a demented effort to rid myself of guilt. If it were not for the scriptures, if it were not for grace, if it were not for mercy I'd have been left there. Fortunately, I wasn't in that place long. It was another pit. Just like the Psalm, Dom. 40. He picked me up out of the miry clay and set my feet upon the Rock. I wasn't even reaching up this time either. My SOUL cried out to Him, though. Do you know there's another scripture that says - and DO keep this in context with what I am saying to you - 'if you sit here you shall surely die'? - That is me. If I were to remain in that place, spiritually I'd have died. I don't think I'd have been lucky enough to die physically.

I am finished.
Should I pay with my soul?
Should that be the cost for what I "stole"?

Because that is the ONLY thing I have left and I BARELY got out with THAT!

This is the kind of arrogant, pompous crap that makes me want to scream at the top of my lungs when I read it.


I wish those of you who choose to beat people over the head with your Bible would take a little time and dwell on some of the OTHER scriptures that speak to YOUR behavior.

" Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the same measure you use, it will be measured to you.

Why do you look for the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? "

Matt 7:1-3


I'm reminded of the story of Jesus visiting a Pharisee. A woman who had lived a sinful life was humbled in the presence of Jesus and knelt at his feet, cleaning them with her tears. The Pharisee of course saw only a sinful woman touching a holy man and was offended. Jesus chided the Pharisee by pointing out that the Pharisee had not so much as offered water for Jesus to clean his feet, yet this woman had done so with her tears of repentance, even to the point of annointing him with her perfume.


There are always many who will point fingers, accuse, and rebuke. There are far fewer who are willing to humble themselves and be used to do God's work.

We should all ask ourselves just WHOSE work we are in the business of doing.


Blessings,

Bill

Dom, all I can say is that anyone that could write that about Amy hasn't been reading what she's been writing for 2.5 years.

Sg, I realize that my previous post might change your opinion of me but as you know, I eventually always show the good AND the bad of my experiences in this walk. I also want others to understand and COMPREHEND that to believe is not to be off the grid as far as the enemy goes - or even as far as our own self-contempt will go if it's strong enough. You can self-destruct and still believe. The problem for me did NOT lie in who Christ says I am or in that He says I was forgiven. It did lie in the fact that I COULD NOT forgive myself. It was separate from my belief and completely contradictory to it. I knew that but I couldn't seem to do anything about it. I was double-minded and therefore unstable in all my ways, just as the Word says. If anyone read my other thread in the prayer forum you'll remember the IT guy I told you about that I got into a spirituality discussion with - I told him I believed in Jesus and when I asked him his beliefs he told me "I play for the other team, Amy". He is a "high priest" in the satanic church. Believe me, I know how dramatic this all sounds but that's how it played out. It was like the enemy revealed himself and his hand over my life that day and I saw it all for what it was and it scared me to death. That's when I reached the point where I sat on the edge of my bed one night and I prayed with my whole heart, "Lord, you've got to get me out of this because I am not strong enough to get out of it on my own". The turn-around was almost immediate and I'm so much better now but I just can not stay in this place, fighting this fight anymore. This is where DB is saving ME. I've grown, I've been accountable for my actions and I've done all that is within my power to do to turn my marriage around. It is out of my hands. Hell, I am out of my hands.

Hopefully I don't lose friends over what I have said here today but if I lose friends for being honest...well then so be it.

I have withstood all the judgment I will withstand from myself and from others.

I am an overcomer.

By grace, mercy and the Blood of the Lamb.

And there is now therefore no condemnation.



Thanks for reading.



AmyC

So true, seems to be the easiest to forget. I'm thinking the plank is in my a$$!

Amy, I posted something some time ago about God not calling the qualified but qualifying the called. I'd place you in the latter.

It's your walk my dear and walk it with your head held high knowing you've done your best with the tools you posessed along the way.

I'm always looking for new tools... so thank you for providing some.

cire

My thoughts EXACTLY. Amen to that, Bill!

Amy.. i know a little about your situation. I will confess that I do not intend to go back and read all of it in full; I am responding to what you write, here and now. Most specifically, what you write as your current intentions, here and now.

I am proceeding with the assumption that you wish your actions, to be in line with what God has written to us as his will for Christians in the bible.

If that is NOT of interest to you, then please just say you dont care what the bible says, and I wont trouble you with it further.

Presuming that you do care, however...



I understand that. I understand that you had a lousy marriage before your MLC. The lack of support from your H, most likely made your MLC be a deep nasty one, instead of what might have been a less troubling one.

That being the case... do his behaviours give you biblical grounds for divorce?

I say divorce, because the way you wrote that you were "moving on", made it sound like you were totally giving up on your marriage, and proceeding in the direction of divorce.
Again, if this is a false assumption on my part, please let make know, and I will apologise for the misunderstanding.






You have suffered. You have suffered a lot, because of choices that you have made.
I am not saying otherwise.

Biblically speaking, though, there is a difference between "suffering as a result of our sin", and "making atonement for it".

What you have described just there, sounds like the former.

I am NOT saying you have made no atonement.

I am saying, that "I have suffered greatly", is not the same thing as "I have repaid the debt".

Example:
let's say someone embezzled some peoples retirement fund, and ran off somewhere with the money.
They then suffer for the next 10 years, from anxiety that they will be caught, cant sleep well, and generally have a miserable existance.
The common commentary might be that they have "paid the price" for their actions. But have they done anything to make it up to the people they stole from?

Amy, i am NOT SAYING that you have done nothing to make up for things.

I am asking you the question: do you think that, by biblical standards, you have done enough to make up for your past actions?
You may have "suffered enough" by societal standards to bail for the exit. But does that cover what the bible has to say about it?
The bible is fairly clear on what Christians (and Jews, even) should do to make up for stealing. It isnt actually very well known. But it is there.

Zaccheus was "saved, by the grace of God", from his past sins.
Jesus even personally invited him to be with Him.
But did Jesus ever say to him, "well, now you're SAVED! So, you dont have to pay back the people you stole from" ?



------


Even if you had NOT done what you did... again, does your husband's behaviour give you biblical grounds to divorce him?

I have yet to see where "God really wants me to do what makes ME happy!", is written in the bible.


Talking about you "spiritually dying if you suffered in your marriage any further", is new age mysticism mumbo jumbo.
It's not in the bible, Amy. its actually rather ANTI-biblical.


That's quite a leading statement. and again, very "modern/new age".
Let me ask you another question:
according to the bible, do you "lose your soul", by being unhappy and suffering?

Or do you SAVE your soul, by sometimes suffering as a result of following Christian principles?

It's tough. Lord knows, it's tough sometimes.


I again apologise, if you are merely describing your intent to just "not try so hard".
Sounded like you were more headed towards the road to divorce, though.

Bworl,

You strike me as the type of person, that anytime Anyone, says ANYTHING, to ANYONE, that suggests to them, "what you are doing, goes against what the bible says", you whip that little pet phrase of yours out.




Part of God's work, is, bringing up to Christian brothers and sisters, when their behaviour may be going against what is written in the bible.


Christians, should be able to have the freedom to discuss these matters openly, and calmly, rather than being shouted down immediately with,

JUDGE NOT, LEST YE BE JUDGED!!!

Ironically, it's usually "politically correct" people, spouting "tolerance", and "dont be judgemental", that try to shut down Christian discussion in this manner. Which in its own way, is about as judgemental and anti-tolerant as it gets.
It is both specifically anti-christian(thus, hatred and anti-tolerance against freedom of religion), and against free speech.

Here's the deal Dom...

1. You have yet again exercised what you apparently think is your role of judge, this time with me. Even though you don't know me at all. Clearly, in your world, you are the authority on things of God, and any who disagree with you are bound for hell. In that regard then, you would be right about me - I think your accusations and recriminations of others spiritual standing is pharasitical...at best.

2. I have been a Christian since 1978. Not some new age, touchy feely, politically correct form of Christianity. Just your straight ahead protestant, believe in the Bible as the word of God form of Christianity. I have been in ministry, I have served as worship leader, small group leader, deacon, youth leader, and hope to eventually work in ministry through my later years.

(I say none of this to IMPRESS, I simply want to make myself clear on what my particular TAKE on MY christianity has been like.)

3. You seem to be intent upon telling Amy (and I'm presuming others) that she has not yet atoned for her sins regarding her marital relationship. Are we reading the same bible my friend? Jesus called those who preach as you do, hypocrites.

Check this one out...

"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! ... you have neglected the more important matters of the law - justice, mercy, and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former." Matt 23:23,24


You can't cast aside my comments by accusing me of being politically correct.

You are right - the body of Christ is called to encourage, teach, and rebuke each other. But it is the apostle Paul who reminds us that we do not all understand the same.

"Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgement on disputable matters. One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him ." Romans 14:1-3


The Bible does not directly speak to every life mess that we face. In the end we are left to, through prayer and guidance, make our way through things we never expected to encounter.

The Bible does not speak about MLC. And nowhere does it say that if you had a three year MLC, you better come back and devote three years of your life and soul to being a servant to your spouse. YOU might feel that way, but this certainly falls in to the disputable matters column that Paul talks about.

Christ brought grace. The apostle Paul makes it clear through his letters that living in this grace is the key to living a life that would please our Father. The Pharisees were scorned and criticized by Christ because they sought to leave the people of God under bondage, and Christ would have none of that.


On a more specific note, I've not yet heard Amy talk of divorcing her husband. If you've followed along with her story (and you've made it clear that such knowledge is not important to you) you would realize that her recent breakthrough has come in the area of no longer allowing herself to be in bondage to the mistakes that she has made. In the end, these are HER decisions, and her work on this board, both in words to others and in sharing her tale, provides her with more than enough credibility to suggest that we can confidently allow her to make her way, knowing that she will always be seeking God's will for her and her family.


Your words bring bondage. Color them as you like.


Blessings,

Bill