It's nice to see you again too. I'm so sorry about your sister. I lost my sister a few years ago, although due to her illness, we really lost her a long time before she actually died. I still find myself taken by surprise by the sense of loss from time to time, although I have now stopped being amazed that she is still dead. I don't know if that's clear - I'd never lost anyone to death before and was surprised by the permanence, which seems like an odd thing to be surprised by.
I hope you are able to find people to talk to about your loss. I bet there are onling groups out there somewhere. And thanks for mentioning the book - I'll check it out.
I guess that's where observation comes in - trying to make ourselves more 'disinterested observers' of our actions and our S's reactions - rather than reacting emotionally to what's going on. Or maybe learning to observe our emotional reactions from the same slight remove, since we probably can't stop having them. I remember reading a story a long time ago about a Buddhist master (is that what they're called) who had been sharing the Buddhist philosophy that everything is an illusion, or that nothing really matters or whatever the approach is to trying to achieve this place of serene observation. His son had died and he was mourning, very sad. One of students asked him why he was reacting this way to something that was only an illusion. He replied that it was a particularly painful illusion.
I'll try to drop in on your thread later to catch up.
Sorry about the multiple posts - my computer wigged out on me.
I'm also sorry about your sister. I lost my father 10 years ago - same month as my sister. I think that time makes it easier, but the loss never goes away. I think about them both every day. They are still very much in my heart.
My sister was a good listener about my H. I miss her. We knew she was terminal, but it happened sooner than we had thought.
I'm not a buddhism expert by any means, but several things in this book spoke to me. I used to be rather spiritual - then I got married! I did join the catholic church nearby last year when things were real bad.
I haven't been posting here, but I did want to find you. I don't think SSM is the right place for me anyway as our real problems are deeper than that. SSM is H's definition of our problem, not mine. I think I need to be happy in spite of my M, or I need to leave.
Doing nothing feels like a big sigh of relief right now - after having tried so many different things for so long. I am starting to explore my spirituality again - things about believing in myself and having compassion for others, even my H. I do have compassion for him, but I don't always show it. So, perhaps being quiet and doing nothing is a way to reach him. I don't know.
Sorry about the cross posting and kind of free falling type of "things that can work" stuff I threw out there. I was just trying to think different because it's so difficult to hang in there and reassess your goals while it feels like you are the only one working on keeping your M and family together.
Thank you for the good wishes. Sometimes I feel like when I mention how things can be, in a testimonial type of way, that I come off gloating or thinking it gives me credibility. It doesn't. I just got lucky. I swear it's only because every once in awhile, I see someone wondering if it's worth it-- and I just have something to say.
DB-ing is always worth it. The changes we make and the life we get while GAL-ing, if done for the right reasons, whether we bust a divorce or not, is always worth it. I would not be the person I am today were it not for this painful journey I went on. I wish I were the type of person that stuck with my path of self-enlightnment and creative problem solving, but I lost me along the way and lost that path. It took almost losing him to find myself.
I too "thought about leaving". The more I detached, the stronger I got, the harder the questions got. When I was honest with myself I acknowledged I couldn't go back to the marriage we had either. I had to actually make myself lists of the reasons I was hanging on at times.
Luck? Fate? I don't know, but sometimes we find what we're looking for. When I detached, forgave him, let him go and let him see how I looked at him now, he started to see himself the way I did. I read somewhere that it's not the OW he loves, it's the way she makes him see himself.
You've been through a lot, Ingrid, and the stress must be exhausting. Only you know the guy you married and had kids with.
I've done some reading and if I've got this right your first objective was for your H to stop talking about leaving.
In January you acknowledged that you know he is confused about the Love v. In Love concept. You wrote:
" He wanted to know why I was crying, so I managed to get out that it was the look on his face, that he was looking at me like he loved me. I was not up to DBing in that moment and I don't even know what else I could have said. Got a hug, was told that of course he loved me. Of course he loves me, he's just not in love with me - everything else we have is worth throwing away because that small piece is missing. He didn't say that last thing, that's just me ranting.---Jan. 4, '08
So. Goal One. He is no longer willing to throw everything away. Check.
What are your new goals? I heard you when you say you want the emotional connection back, but maybe we can break it down into smaller goals if you tell us what that would look like to you?
What kinds of things would your H be doing if he not only loved you but was IN love with you (and knew it)?
Is it getting warm enough to garden yet? Did the two of you attend the concert together? Do you go to S's baseball games together?
Did you have the conversation with H that you mentioned last night?
Ingrid - I followed a bunch of folks over to another site b/c I was only posting on SSM and they all left. I didn't post at that site for a while either b/c of all the trauma with my sister. Then, I felt the urge to come looking for you. I wouldn't mind posting in both places, but I'm not sure where I belong here (I actually don't think it is SSM). Is piecing only if there is an OW? I read DB, but ages ago and don't remember.
I can feel how much you are struggling. Do try to keep yourself strong and healthy so that you can make decisions and actions from a grounded place.
I like what Deaxlie said about not going back to the same M. In my M, we both need to make changes - but I'm not sure H has accepted that. Another reason I'm doing "nothing" at the moment, and surprisingly he has made small offers, i.e. to get home in time so I can do something with a friend one night.
In addition to this book I mentioned, I've been reading a lot about positive thinking, and how negative thoughts invite negativity into your life and positive thoughts invite positivity. I definitely get caught up in my H's moodiness and negativity, which is not the real "me." To the extent you can, try to stay positive and picture the life you want with H - it will help you to get there.
Hey, Deuxlie ~ I'm going to stop saying thank you at the beginning of each email, not because I'm unappreciative, just to save some time. I'm thinking it though, so thank you for your response.
I guess what I'd like to see are things like eye contact, casual touches and hugs, that kind of thing. I was seeing more of that prior to my recent 'slip', which was mostly due to, as someone else said, drifting back into giving my H a lot of power over how I was feeling, which I had much more under control in December and January. Once it was clear that he wasn't leaving, and especially after he told me that he wasn't actively considering it right now (even though it's of course always an option), at some level I began to expect that I could depend on him for that again. I wasn't spending any time here, and I haven't discussed this in any great detail with anyone, although one very good friend knows some of it, and the feelings were getting overwhelming. Not a good situation.
Yes, we went to the concert together, and ended up having a pretty intense discussion in our seats, with my mother beside me and surrounded by people who know us from school. It didn't really get into an argument, but it was tense. It was a conversation that we needed to have (child-related), but probably not there, and I didn't do a great job of listening to his feelings. In the past, if we had a discussion like that, I probably would have spent the rest of the evening ignoring him in chilly silence - when I look back, I'm really quite ashamed of the childishness. Anyway, instead I rubbed his shoulder a bit and talked to him in a friendly way from time to time throughout the evening. When we got home, I dragged him off to the bedroom and apologized, and tried to convey that I understood why he reacted the way did around this issue. I also apologized for my behaviour on the weekend and told him that I was making behavioural changes because I wanted to change, but that I couldn't always 'hold it'. He seemed to appreciate the apology and we had a nice hug after, but the retreat is still there. Not a lot of eye contact, he seems quite irritated by me - oh, it's fun.
He seemed to have decided that he just going to do (or not do) whatever he wants and I can just lump it. A reaction to the feelings he had as a child of being controlled by his father and then living with me - even before any of this stuff happened, reacting to my unsettled childhood, where I never knew what would happen next and was quite often more 'adult' than my mother, I very much tried (and still do) to control everything to manage anxiety. The ADs I'm on have reduced that anxiety somewhat, but I still tend to go to the worst-case scenario most of the time. Not that I think there's really anything wrong with planning for that, but I can see that it would get annoying.
I guess that would be another big thing - maybe the biggest thing - that my H could see things from my point of view, as he used to be able to do. Everything is about him right now - I told him during the crying weekend that I feel like I am not entitled to have any feelings about anything, and he said that he didn't feel that way at all, but since any feelings I have make him mad or irritated, that isn't the case. Pulling back to being pleasant all the time has improved the tension in the last few days, so obviously I can't share anything with him yet.
I need to get back to that place where it really doesn't matter what he does - I was there for a while but I've lost it again. I guess I'll be spending a lot of time typing here, instead of getting some work done, which is really what I should be doing right now.
Hi, LS ~ in my memory, DB doesn't have much information about piecing. I'll try to have a look in the next few days and see if there's anything.
I don't know what the definition is, really, and I still read posts on the MLC forum and occasionally the SSM forum and others, depending on what seems relevant and of course, there are certain people you connect with all over the place here. I don't think we're piecing, and I probably moved in a fit of unrealistic optimism when my H let his apartment go rather than moving in January. He has said that his emotions are all over the place and there certainly hasn't been any verbal commitment to improving our relationship, but his actions point to someone who is trying, at least going through the motions, but it's obviously such an effort - wonderful for one's ego, hey?
However, this morning he called to check with me about our schedule later in the day, as something has come up that he wants to do, so that's a little step - at least he remembered that I exist and might like to know that he'll be out this evening.
I was out last night (my book club) and so I'm a bit fuzzy this morning from too much wine and not enough sleep. Regardless, I'd best get to work - someone get a whip out!
However, this morning he called to check with me about our schedule later in the day, as something has come up that he wants to do, so that's a little step - at least he remembered that I exist and might like to know that he'll be out this evening.
I was out last night (my book club) and so I'm a bit fuzzy this morning from too much wine and not enough sleep. Regardless, I'd best get to work - someone get a whip out
Little steps are important. I tend to get impatient and ignore those, but they do mean something.
So, Day 7 for me of doing "nothing." Last night, my H again went to bed without asking any questions about my day or showing any affection. I felt the urge to hug and be hugged at one point but didn't act on it for fear of being pushed away.I ended up crying in the livingroom. Today, I'm feeling a little better.
Maybe next week I'll start a post here somewhere. I wonder if only one person of a couple can piece? I suppose anything is possible.
I'm so glad you got out last night and had a good time! It is important to take care of ourselves. I'm trying to get better about that too.
Hi Ingrid-- wtg on the way you handled the intense situation at the concert. It is so hard, a particularly painful illusion (loved your buddhist philosophy reference), when he is under the delusion that he can do anything he wants and if you don't like it you can just lump it. That only works when you're 12. Great to see you recognize the difference in the way the "old" you would've handled it and the way that works.
I'm glad you found a way to work in acknowlegement of your teeny backslide last weekend-- I know it's been bothering you.
Sweetie, you know exactly what I'm going to say though, He USED to see your point of view. He USED to look at you and connect on a consistent basis. He is coming back to you-- but he's just not there yet and meanwhile you want to keep him from retreating as much as you can.
Living in the now-- being still-- must be particularly tough on you because you've always had to be the adult and manage others. For now though (sorry), you are right. You still have to act "as if" and try not to let this illusion affect you so deeply. You have to guard your heart and keep giving him the space to control his own destiny so he doesn't feel controlled/manipulated by you and instead, comes back to those feelings with his own free will.
Hope you are having a great weekend! Kel
PS. I think you're piecing. It's the hardest part though...
