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Hello, Lwb,

I have been a bit blue of late. So many things weighing me down. My job. This head cold. This yucky weather. Lack of sleep. And my father is not doing all that well -- he's in ICU.

And then I keep trying to not let my W bring me down, not think about her so much. And she is still so cold and hostile. I went to another parent-teacher meeting late this afternoon. W was relatively polite, but she still treats me like I am some imbecile when it comes to the education plan our S7 is on.

I fear that Flynn and Root are right. W's accusations are more than annoying and a nuisance -- they're starting to bug me. And while I don't gather from my S's that they feel any real difference towards me, I am beginning to wonder how much I may really not know that W is saying to them.

The other thing that gives me concern is that W contracted a husband and wife team to paint and repair the interior of our house, in preparation for putting it on the market. While I approve of W hiring the contractor and setting the schedule around which they can work, especially since she is still living in the house, she did not consult with me before making the decision on who to hire (she has gotten really awful about that, making decisions on her own, most often unilateral, even when she should consult with me first.) W has put the expenses on her credit card. She has expected the federal tax refund check to help pay for this cost. I have told W I want a detailed bill for time and materials from the contractor, for tax purposes among many other reasons.

I filed our joint return this year and she got the checks when they were mailed to our residence. I now believe that I may have made a foolish mistake in entrusting my W by endorsing the refund checks for her to pay off the credit card debt for the house repairs. I realize that my W, who has always tried to pass herself off as fiscally sound and responsible, might be "embezzling" money's out of me under the pretense of home improvement expenses. She could very well be building a secret nest egg, if she hasn't already, to fund a court battle with me, to take the kids away from me -- and I would have inadvertently provided her the funds to do so.

I have a bad feeling about this. I just don't want to believe that my W would be that cold-blooded, but then again how can I say I even know who this person is any longer? She has sunk pretty low already -- how much farther could she or would she descend?

Oh, Lord, I hope this is just unfounded paranoia.

So sorry to hear about your father!!! I hope he is well soon! Hope you feel better also!

It is so frustrating the way your W and my H act. I suspect it is b/c if they don't demonize us or whatever you want to call it and see us as horrible people they wouldn't be able to handle the guilt of what they are doing to us and their children!

I hate to say it but I think you may be right about your W and the money also. My H was taking out large sums of money each month before he moved out. I suspect he did spend a lot of it on OW because they were getting hotel rooms (OW is married with children also), but I also think he was creating a nest egg for himself as well. I have saved receipts and bank records and from what I understand when/if we divorce he will have to pay me back half of what he spent on OW at the time and hopefully some of his nest egg too! I def. think that is also going to make him look not very good to the Judge in the case as well who will of course be deciding child custody and everything.

I hope your W is not doing the same, but hopefully in future I think you do need to be careful and keep in mind it's a possibility I think and keep an eye on that, and if she has done anything like my H maybe you also can get bank receipts and/or bank records. My H is careless so he left some of the bank receipts (one for $1000!) lying around and I have kept them of course!!! Karen

Thanks, Karen.

I think maybe this is one case where acting "as-if" (specifically, treating my W as if she's still her old trustworthy self) will likely to lead to more harm than good.

On another note, I am wondering whether a 180 is too late at this stage. My standard MO is/was to withdraw into my "cave" when confronted by unpleasantries, especially with the stresses from family and work. I have continually worried that "going dark" has been seen by W as just "more of the same" from me.

Anyone think retaking up some DB approaches again might have better results this time? Or is it really too late, or just not the right time?

Oh, Lord, am I cycling back into ambivalence again?

Well, I personally think that 180s are a good idea no matter what your goals are and it's never too late! My H is still out of the house and with OW but since I have been doing 180s H and I have a friendlier relationship and he has been spending more time here with our kids (don't know if that last one is related to my DBing, but who knows maybe has helped?).

I mean 180s are basically figuring out what doesn't work for you and your relationship and trying to do the opposite and see if that works is how I understand it anyway. I'm a logical type person and it doesn't make sense to do what isn't working anyway! Karen

I think 180s are good... they are for YOU, not just to try and save a marriage. If you think going dark is having a negative effect then try something else. It's always okay to DB (as long as you keep in mind there's no guarentee it will work... it's just your best hope and often helps in healing).

But in the meantime, make sure you are legally protecting youself. Talk with your lawyer about things. Maybe you should consider having a parent or someone you can trust hold cash for you in case unexpected expenses come up....

Although I don't think you should be paranoid, it doesn't hurt to be careful. Document and have records of every cent you give her. Be careful not to give her too much extra money, she may use this as a basis for more alimony...

Root, you always have great advice! I agree about doing the 180s for you; I think if they are good for you then it is a good idea. Like I worked on my depression (now am so much happier!), being less dependent on H, and GALing and all of that stuff has kind of helped my self esteem too.

That is the stuff that H was always bothered by but those changes have been good for me, too!!! I hate to admit that I started this whole process and DBing just to save my marriage, now I am trying to do it more for myself and I think that is healthier, too. Karen

Karen,
I'm so glad to hear that. It was the same for me. I started 180s and GALing to try and win my marriage back, but in the long run it helped me find myself after stagnancy and sorrow. I'm so glad you are finding the same thing!

Blues, I hope and pray it helps you too.

Thanks for the advice, Karen, Root. I just haven't quite figured out how to 180 with my W -- which entail me doing the opposite of withdrawing or going dark -- and not seem like I am pursuing W instead. It is entirely possible that pursuit might actually be what W wants. (But then I also know she would not garner much respect for me in that case either.)

I am still considering what and if a change in course might be in order.

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I got a reply to an email I sent W on Monday. Here is the email I sent:



I called to talk to my S's this morning and when she answered she told me she finally got and read my email this morning.

I said, "Okay. And?"

W said, "Cold. It was so cold and heartless, with no feeling to it..."

I said nothing in response to the tone of my email, as I was a little surprised she took it so, but she continued to to say to me that she had no intention of "ripping me off" and that I am just too mean and callous and refuse to trust her, blah, blah blah.

I wanted to say something in response, but then she put our S's on to talk to me before I could.

Afterwards I noticed she had sent a reply by email that echoed much of what she said to me on the phone:


I prepped a message to send back to her, but I am going to sit on it for 24 hours to see how I feel about it then:



I really just do not know how to approach this woman any more. She has become the most frustratingly confusing person I have ever met. I have better rapport and understanding with female friends and acquaintances than with my own W right now. This is downright maddening.

NoCode, I think it's good but I think you might want to consider taking out some of it. The parts below are what I noticed:






I think mentioning war and warfare might not be a good idea, and feel that some of the above is a little too hostile: like saying she has a hateful, hostile tone. I'm sure she does have that with you (my H is like that sometimes too!), but I am thinking that maybe you could be modeling for her a better, neutral, polite tone. I think if you use certain of those words like war, hostile, and hateful you may just antagonize her further and she may not even read your entire email either. So I think you might want to either take the above out or rewrite it or something? Just my opinion of course, and my H is still living with OW, so take that for what it's worth!!! Karen

Yes, you're absolutely right, Karen.

I guess that's why I had decided to sit on the reply for now. It felt good to write it at the time, but I realize it is too heavy handed to send as is.

Thanks for your help.