Can you forgive someone, yet not fully trust them?
I have read some awsome posts on forgiveness- is for oneself and not for your s. And I would love to say I have forgiven my h for the e/a. I would love to say I forgive my h for the lies. I think I can see that before true healing begins I need to forgive. It was a relief to read that I can forgive an action but that doesn't mean I forget the action. But can I forgive and still be afraid that he will hurt me again? Can I forgive yet still wonder if there are any more lies?
We have been m 10y with 3 kids. I discovered 2m ago that h was unhappy... said he wasn't in love with me...I am unattractive. And I hurt and cried. Then 1m ago I discover h having e/a. I was crushed. Started journaling, working on myself and yes some things are better. But I am stuck on this forgiveness and trust issue.
Quote: Can you forgive someone, yet not fully trust them?
I have found it's the other way around...
This is a tough one that I still struggle with. I think there are two levels of trust that need to be evaluated: 1) A blanket trust that must be given to your S regardless of what's transpired. Constant questioning will only cause further friction. One needs to let go. 2) A deep trust where you are confident of your spouse's faith.
I found that I had to implement #1 for a while to show "good faith" in my W...and to just get by. Over time this became easier because she was, in her way, showing me that I could trust her.
Giving your H this trust will help release some of the pressure he's feeling (as well as you). Thus, as things slowly improve between the two of you, he will then gradually come around in a way that he used to be(have). Then, you'll know/feel that things are better and that you can "trust" him. The result? #2. Only after one begins to enter the #2 realm does forgiveness begin, I think (at least for me), because it's at this point that our Ses show US that they are interested and willing to work on the R.
This stuff just takes time and patience. One thing ever so gradually leads into another. I struggle every day, but also feel a little better with each passing day. I still have not officially forgiven my W, but I imagine I will soon. Good luck, bumbling.
While I can see that forgiveness is something you do for yourself, I sometimes feel myself slipping emotionally and wonder I am as near forgiveness as I thought.
Jethro thanks so much for view on trust. It has clarified this issue for me. I think this past week I have been able to trust to your level 1. (Which scares me at times since H still works with OW.) You are so right that constant questioning causes continued problems.
I get angry sometimes that I have to be the one to give this trust, since I was the one betrayed and hurt. Why do I need to give anything? Even though H has written notes I have asked for, calls me from work, comes home early at times and is trying to make me feel better, he has yet to show me he is truely working on the R and not just appeasing my feelings. I get so tired sometimes having to work so hard at controling my emotions. Maybe I am not trusting H or close to giving forgiveness, maybe I just hope I am trusting. Does trusting meaning never worrying or be scared even if these feeling are not voice to S?
Hi Bumbling,
The pain of being betrayed brings with it the demons of insecurities (worry & fear) circling around the question, "How do I prevent myself from getting hurt like this again?"
Ironically the one trait you have to beat back theses demons is the one thing most believe leaves you most vunerable to getting hurt again - TRUST.
I'm learning to redevelop trust into a form of letting go ... as an acceptance of what I don't control. One cannot control the choices their S makes. What is in your control is your acceptance or not of what they do. It helps to develop a predetermined plan of what you will accept and what you will not and work towards building the strength to know that you will live up to that code and that when you do, no matter what happens you will be OK. When you reach that state, you tend to find the demons hold no power over you anymore.
Trust, like forgiveness, has more to do with you than your spouse. Its a measure of how confident you are about the choices you make being the right one for you. Remember, love is a decision and what attacted your S to you ... drawing them to make that decision is you being who you really are before you were going down cheeseless tunnels.
To be honest, I not sure if I'm conveying properly what I am trying to say. I seem to be in a bit of a fog lately. Is this making any sense to anyone?
It might easer to understand what I wrote a while back...
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Then it hit me ... the reoccurring statement through out this board - "Love is a decision." A decision based on what it is about us that they are attracted to and then they are fully committed to that decision.
What altered that commitment? The subtle shift in our behavior until we are no longer the person they were attracted to. Then they begin to doubt their decision to love us. The more we continue our unattractive behavior the more they waiver. Eventually, they change their decision. Unfortunately, for some of us that may mean an EA or PA.
What brings them back? Changes we make in our behavior as we consciously attempt to improve ourselves. This may reminds them of the old us they were attracted to or even better perhaps as the "New & Improved" us. Once they believe that changes are for real, then it is not such a large step for them to decide they can love us again and commit to it again. For my W it took a little longer than a week for her to process this on her own before she came to me to talk.
Now how can we believe their commitment to this decision is for real and we can trust them? As long as we continue to act in the manner that is true to ourselves and attracted them to make the decision to love us again, then they will never have any reason to doubt the commitment they made to that decision.
Thereby breaking the previous cycle and IT WILL NOT BE REPEATED!
This is why DBing is for life!!!!!
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I guess I more tired tonight than I thought. So I guess I should get to bed. Hope this helped in some way. Goodnight.
Quote: It helps to develop a predetermined plan of what you will accept and what you will not and work towards building the strength to know that you will live up to that code and that when you do, no matter what happens you will be OK.
Thanks, this will help me to have a concrete action to focus on.
Quote: Once they believe that changes are for real, then it is not such a large step for them to decide they can love us again and commit to it again.
Lately it seems no matter what changes I make H interprets my action the opposite from my intentions. I give him space- I am avoiding him. I stop R talk- I am mad. I try to show empathy to his feelings- I am being judgemental ( I believe me I only use "I" statements). Well, could be H does not believe my changes are for real.
I get so tired, that maybe I should stop caring about his feelings and just focus on me. But would that make us drift farther from each other?
Goals: 1) continue to notice the positive actions from H and praise him. 2) praise myself on the positive that I do, even if H does not notice. 3) go to the gym 5 times this week.
Does anyone ever feel like their head is above water, but so tired from treading water?
Quoting bumbling: Does anyone ever feel like their head is above water, but so tired from treading water?
Wouldn't it be nice if we all could be the Energizer bunny? So now and again you have to take a break from working at your goals to do more of what you enjoy doing for yourself for a little while. Give yourself a little time and recharge your batteries.
Quote: I get angry sometimes that I have to be the one to give this trust, since I was the one betrayed and hurt. Why do I need to give anything? Even though H has written notes I have asked for, calls me from work, comes home early at times and is trying to make me feel better, he has yet to show me he is truely working on the R and not just appeasing my feelings.
Ummm...forgive me bumbling, but isn't he trying by doing those things you mentioned? What's the difference between "truly" trying and "appeasing" your feelings? I think I know what you mean, but realize that he is trying. After I found out about my W's EA/PA, she was doing stuff for me, but she wasn't doing these things with "conviction." Is this what you mean?
I believe it simply takes time for our Ses to come around because they are still wrapped up in the aftermath of their A. As we give them space, ease the tension, they are able to come around...slowly, day-by-day. I think this is the hardest point of DBing ever...when our S finally decides to stay, but we have to deal with the A without going off the deep end because they are unable to give us what we need at this point. I was right where you are a couple of months (or so) ago...so I understand where you're coming from.
Quote: Does anyone ever feel like their head is above water, but so tired from treading water?
Yes...often. I have gone on my own rollercoaster ride separate from my W. My feelings vacillate between not knowing if I can handle being with her after what she's done, to having an inner peace and understanding that she made a mistake that I don't think she'll make again. To get off of the rollercoaster ride, to back off a little, not analyze so much, and to chill out, I have decided to coast for a while. I have found that I've put a lot of pressure on myself to DB to perfection when the intensity of DBing is not as necessary anymore. Oddly enough, my W perceives this "intensity" as pressure. So, I've eased the burden on both of us by easing up in general.
Jeez...this post sounds a lot like me me me... I'm just trying to draw a parallel. In any case, my suggestion is to back off a little, bumbling, do something for yourself, and detach from the situation a bit. I know it's hard, but I think it might help, and you need to recharge those batteries.
So I guess I should get to bed. Hope this helped in some way. Goodnight.
