Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums We're separated--What Now? Worried I found DB too late #2

Hi CW,
I'm still fixated on how your kids integrate you spending time together as a family even though you are separated. Isn't it confusing to them--ie why can we all do stuff together some of the time but not all of the time? Why does Daddy stay for dinner but then leave? Do the kids know that he might come home eventually?

I know, this is my own issue--the one I am trying to grapple with as we anticipate telling the kids. I guess all kids and families are different in what makes sense. I feel like if my H opts to live elsewhere, then I will need my home to myself (with kids, of course). I will need time without him in order to heal. I'm already making the biggest compromise of all by even contemplating separation--which is his wish, not mine.

yadda, yadda, yadda--I exhaust and bore myself with my endlessly spinning thoughts.

Usually if one of us stays for dinner, we stay until the kids' bedtime and we both put them to bed. The kids sometimes have a hard time with it, but IMO it's a much less harder time than they would if THEY were the ones who had to go back and forth between the houses.

I am glad I don't have the house to myself when I'm not with the kids. Coming to the apartment becomes my alone time. I miss the kids, but I don't see reminders of them everywhere and it's "easier" to be alone a in a 900 sq ft 1-bedroom apt than a 2500+sq ft 4-bedroom house.

Our kids really have adjusted as well as they can to the given situation. It was really weird at first, and I had a hard time whenever he was around, but after about two weeks I made a decision to try to use our time together to rebuild. It coincided with me finding DB. We really do get along well, so it's not difficult. ie- we don't fight and never really have.

The kids know that he *might* come back, but that it's not likely. At first D6 said that she knew Daddy would come back but now she doesn't think he ever will. Very sad, but again, I think it's worked out well for the kids because it's giving them some adjusting time.

On my front, H called me at 8am this morning just to tell me some things that he could have waited to tell me when we all met at our health club at 9am and he was very chipper, too.

I wish I could be as big about it all as you are being, CW. It's very admirable. I do of course care about my kids enormously, but I also feel that in order for me to be the best mother I can be under these circumstances, H needs to "own" what he is doing and the impact it is going to have on all of us. I am still very angry and hurt and I think it's going to take me a long time to get past that.

I guess since I have no control over his decision, I am trying to have some control in other ways--ie he takes responsibility for this being his decision and he respects my needs for what the living arrangements will be. I worry that if I "cave" and pretend that this is a mutual decision or allow him to come and go at will, I will feel even more resentful and that will be worse for the kids than having them know that H thought this was for the best.

CW - First let me thank you for the opportunity to dialog with you, I see so many similarities in your sitch that we have worked through...

It is not practical to think that you needed to plan better on the cooktop – of course that is not the case. But, the intent of our collective efforts is to save our marriages. So, by communicating your disappointment with the cooktop timing in such a way that is not threatening will really get you some miles, WITHOUT making you look like a sap. Your irritation is just, your concern is just, and it certainly is ok to be pissed. But the reality is you are walking a thin line between marriage and divorce and there will be time to correct those thoughts and feelings in MC if/when you get back together. I promise that you will be able to address them, as we do every other week. MC is a lot of work but we are committed! Keep in mind, in the first 3 MC appointments that we went to she was adamant that she was only going to facilitate a better divorce!!!!

So, what do you do? You can marinate on your irritation and let it build until something else sets it off and cause different damage to the relationship, or you can address it in a way that utilizes safe words and limited pressure. He may be an ass for what he did, but you have admitted that one area of the relationship that needs work is the criticism…. So you are working on yourself by changing how you approach these situations. You are doing constructive 180’s to help save your family.

I can tell you that I am very sensitive to criticism from my wife and there are times even now that I feel she is being too harsh, but that came from 8 years of constant evaluation. She would address anything and everything good, bad, or indifferent. We joke now that I could win the lottery and she would be upset that I had not won more! So she works really hard at doing what I am suggesting that you do, safe words and safe start-ups. At the end of the conversation, we are far more productive and have more genuine concern for one another than when we handle it differently.

How you feel is so important to all of this, because you need to feel something to make progress both personally and in the marriage. So maybe I was a little harsh in that comment, but I still think that we all need to understand intent first before we can decide how to feel about actions. Remember that feelings are choices and like all choices there are good and bad and they all require some evaluation before action. A few weeks ago my W got p’d at me because she was sick for 4 days and she felt like I was not taking care of her in the way that she would me. I in turn got upset, because I felt like I was really doing a lot. End of the day, expectations were not communicated – she wanted home cooked sick food and I cook about as poorly as I spell so I went the other direction and ordered out lots of good food and made sure to attend to her every need. She “felt” like I didn’t care when. I “felt” like she was crazy. So we both got bent up and started to let some bad feelings dictate our actions. We finally talked it out and she realized that my intent was full of love and I realized my effort was not what she expected. I promised to try better next time and she promised to appreciate my intent of her perception of my intent!

I would say that if H is not doing those things you have a lot to worry about, but it seems to me that he is often trying to do something!

Quick thought on roles… I can not offer anything here other than again telling you that we had similar experiences. We moved to a new town and she felt alone, I work and travel a lot so it is ease for me to hide. But, when we would try to go out as a couple she would want to run home to save money or time and it made me feel shorted as I wanted adult time with her and it was worth the expense. She was just trying to protect our finances, but again we never really communicated either to one another and it caused disruption in OUR marriage. Me I would prefer to go do real guy things! I don’t really drink anymore but at one time that is something that I wanted to do every so often, you know a few beers with the guys ooogle the girls come home at 3am. I am as immature as the next guy! LOL!!! But she would have none of that and then the criticism would enter into the equation. So then I would just do things like that to spite her. I would not be interested in her things because she would tell me how my stuff was stupid. Long story short – there is an approach here too for you.

First you need to find some Mine, His, and Our connections. Really list them here for us. Once you have identified them, you need to get a feel for what you would be willing to do with each category. Sounds like one of the OUR connections are your kids. GREAT!!!! But what about the others? Find one or two of your Mine Connections and make them important in your life for your sanity! Then look at His connections: running, bars with his buddies, etc. Find 1 that you would be interested in sharing. You don’t have to do much to connect here, just showing interest may turn the tide for you. If its running – you don’t need him to run with you. Start on your own and work to the point you can do a 5K. Then tell him what you have been doing. He will ask why and you can tell him that you wanted something to share. Exepectations are key here because at this point in your marriage you can not expect him to return the favor but I think that you can at some point!

Lastly, I think the fact that he is thinking about you with the bike is AWESOME! It tells me that he has levels of concern for you. His immediate concern is your safety, but his long term concern is some activity that you can do together! SUPER!

If the marriage has been painful to him and he is scared of you, then you need to create some safe space for the marriage to thrive. You don’t have to advertise this at all, but he will notice if there is a situation where you normally get bowed up and lash out at him the next time you do something different (180). I don’t know how or where, but you can do it. Create an environment that he will want to come back to and I think that he will and then you two can work together! But do not advertise that is what you are doing.

My final comment is about this apartment… that seems a little childish to me the arrangement that you two have. Can you tell me why you guys split time and money on this apartment? Whose idea was the separation? Not that it matters but me thinks that such an arrangement is crazy for each of you. This is where I really agree with some of the DB techniques. He is not going to make a decision one way or the other about your marriage with this arrangement because he has his cake and can eat it too! He can still play family man from time to time as well as super single man. You have to throw these curves to your kids which I think is worse than what you are doing. I AM NOT SUGGESTING THAT YOU GO RIGHT OUT AND CHANGE THE ARRANGEMENT, I am suggesting that some thought should be put into this. One thing that I was told over and over was to get back in the house if I wanted to save my M. When I announced to W that I was moving back home it was ugly (this is when she hit me with the vacuum). But it was a great decision because she could see my changes and I could see that she was willing to change too!


Sorry for the long post, but I will be away from the board until Monday and wanted to get all my thoughts to you….

The apartment was his idea. I was completely against it until I was faced with having my kids move between homes. In the big picture, I think it's a positive, but yeah, he gets his cake and eats it too. However, I'm the one who's off having fun and going out when I'm at the apartment; he's the one who's more likely to be sitting alone reading.

As for the partying/bars thing, I love to party! That wasn't a problem. Money and babysitters really were. It wasn't that I didn't want to go out and party, he wanted to go out and party without me! grrrr.

I have to run, I'll reply before you're back on Monday.

Am just too tired after a week of visitors to post much. *yawn*

The week was pretty good. H chose to hang with us every day and that's a good sign to me. My sister is a handful (alcoholic, bi-polar) and H could have easily stayed away without having to explain, but instead he hung out with his sis-in-law, bro-in-law and 20-year old nephew. We had a good time and H was very friendly to me. Reached out a number of times and a nice hug/soft kiss goodbye tonight. He also said a few things here and there (even hinted at getting intimate) that made me think that he's looking at us long-term (not that he's chosen it or anything, but I think he might actually be contemplating it as an option).

Darn it, though, yesterday he noticed that I had a new album on my iPod and was surprised by my choice. Nephew told me that he made me buy it. Then H said the artist was coming into town and I asked him if he wanted to see the show and he said yes. It's the first time he's talked about doing something with me without the kids and/or non-house related. So I was psyched about getting tickets and going but the show's sold-out and the cheapest tickets I found were $145 each.

I'm pooped, must sleep.

Interesting note on the concert. The concert I was looking at was in a different town and I found they are actually coming to where we live and that there are tickets available. I called him last night with the news and wanted to see if I should pick up tickets. The show's on a Friday next month. Apparently, the Monday following the concert he has to be in Southern California for a meeting and was planning on going down the weekend before to visit his best friend so he said he wanted to think about it and we'd talk about it this morning when he was here. So I asked if he was going to go to LA early or if he wanted to see the show. He was hesitant, "Hmm, really wanted to visit CJ, but it should be a really good concert." I just said, "The show's on Friday, you could always fly down Saturday morning and get to do both." He said he'd think about it. Even if we don't go, I'm pretty happy about it because he could easily just pass on the whole thing. Admittedly, he could just be excited for the concert, but he's not too afraid of just spending the time with me or he'd have his out. Hopefully we'll go, but if not, oh well.

(((((CW)))))

I'm glad you survived the week, and that he stuck with it! I have found that stressful situations seem to work in one of two ways, sometimes they drive us apart, but sometimes they seem to bring us together. It sounds like you had at least a little of the bringing together! He may withdraw a bit now, don't make a lot of it!

The concert thing sounds pretty interesting. I think the fact that he didn't just reject the idea is significant. I think he may have appreciated that you remembered that he wanted to go to LA early, rather than waited for him to bring it up. Hopefully you go, but remember that sometimes things don't work out even in good situations!

I think you have hit a home run!!!! Unless you are only posting part of the story you could have very easily "jumped" him for his interest in going to see his friend and piled on about this concert. By offering an alternative, I think you may have disarmed him which is why he is now "thinking" it over. In the past, me thinks he would not have given it a second thought and scrapped the concert for his boy time.

Significant development in the sitch if you ask me. But, don't get your hopes up. Me thinks you buy the tickets, take the leap! If he decides not to go, find a friend and go yourself then you buy him a small token from the show. This is so anti-DB but it may be malleable enough for your sitch. But him something non-significant and tell him what a great time he missed. Not that you missed him or anything like that - but that he missed a great time.

One step at a time and I for one am proud of you if you fought your urge to use his indecision against him. Shows great restraint and great control! He will soften because of it....

Thanks Hound! I'm feeling good without having my hopes up because I'm happy with how it's worked out so far. Just leaving it at that. You know, I was just on the way home from the doc's office thinking that I'm just going to buy two tickets and go regardless.

I'm not posting one side of the story and I'm honestly not even concerned about his indecision on the matter, more a tad bit bummed about the timing. This friend is his best friend, is a good friend of mine and is probably the one person we know who knows the whole story between both of us. He's a good source of friendship, is honest and unbiased and is a great listener. It'd do my H well to visit and recharge his soul.

I do want to give myself a pat on the back for a number of things this week that the old me would have commented (OK, harped) on but didn't. Really and truly I'm learning how to just can it and let it go. Only once did I say something biting, but even he agreed that it was warranted. Came back from a great day on Saturday right at dinnertime. H was going out with friends and the rest of us to dinner. S5 asked if he could go on the computer, I said no because we were leaving. Then S5 asks Dad, who says yes. I told him to get off the computer so we could go, S5 starts crying and H starts to walk out the door. I did comment on the unfairness that he gets to just walk away and I'm the one having to deal with the crying and that I wish next time he would ask me unless he was willing/able to stick around to deal with the repercussions. H apologized, said he understood and left looking kind of stricken. When he came the next morning, I was extra PMA and acted as if nothing had happened the night before because I didn't want it to turn into a big deal. All was fine yesterday and no ill affects. So we had an issue, dealt with it honestly even though it was uncomfortable and then it was gone.