Reading these recent posts of yours, here are a few of things I'm noticing.
1. You are grieving the downward trajectory of your marriage. Looks like it's over. You seem sure of it. You keep reminding yourself it's over.
2. You are hurt at being rejected by your wife.
3. You are outraged at her ability to detach so easily, connect with friends and take care of herself. She's doing what you should be doing in a situation like this. Her instinct for self-preservation and self-care is more developed than yours. You have defined yourself as the one who loves unconditionally, even at great cost to yourself. Frank IS self-sacrifice.
4. You believe you rescued/saved your wife two years ago at great cost to yourself. You also believe because you saved her, she should have been willing to save you when you fell down.
5. Your wife doesn't necessarily believe you saved her -- at least not to the extent you do. We all re-write history. She thinks you worked hard on saving the marriage and appreciates that you welcomed her back, but, in essence, she feels you haven't personally changed and that the same stresses that were in the marriage 2 yrs ago are still present. She thinks you applied a band-aid to a deep flesh wound.
4. You really want her love and you want it to work out.
5. You are simultaneously very angry with her, to the point of feeling hatred and contempt.
6. You are not controlling at all. But you are needy at this point in time.
7. The balance of power in your relationship is entirely in your wife's favor right now.
8. The state that you are in is not healthy for you, nor is it attractive to your wife.
9. That state that you are in is like a drowning man. You need to reach for a life preserver, for you own sake and for your kids. If you are still at all interested in working on the marriage, you need to reach for the life preserver, since no one is going to hitch their destiny to a drowning man.
Well, the golden question is what do you want? Here are some questions that might help you to clarify.
1. Do I want to be authentic about how I feel right now, regardless of the outcome in my marriage?
2. Do I want to stop living in fear and state exactly how I feel and, in turn, act in accordance with my feelings?
3. Do I want to save the marriage? Do I want to stay married to this woman?
4. Do I want to save myself and reach wholeness, joy and success independent of the outcome of my marriage?
5. Do I think the marriage must end before I really can work on myself?
6. Can I really take care of myself without doing it reference to it's affect on my wife and the possibilty of saving the marriage?
I think you can and should be authentic and raw at times, but I think if that's the main thing in your life and there's nothing else really good or healthful going on for you, then you will, most probably, accelerate the end of the marriage and have to do your healing AFTER The divorce. That's OK.
I think if you let some good things into your life, pursue strong friendships in your area and take care of yourself, while being authentic about your negative feelings, you will heal faster, regardless of the outcome in the marriage. However if you are still open tp repairing you marriage, have the best change of doing so. Why? Because you are being honest AND seeking healing/growth for yourself. Forget the fake happy face. You will have a happy face when good things are happening in your life. You will also have a sad face when reflecting on your marriage. At least that's honest, but forward moving and attractive.
What I'm saying is go ahead and grieve, be pissed off, be angry, be authentic, but ALSO take care of yourself. Taking care of yourself will help remove the neediness. In the end your wife might not be able to deal with your honesty. But, at least, she'll be leaving an honest, strong and vital Frank.
Now why do I even dare bring up the issue of saving the marriage? Because, I think, it's still a desire of yours. We all know the best thing to tell you it to detach and take care of yourself. But I wanted to re-introduce the topic, because I think you, like many of us, have difficulty shutting off the affection for our spouses and cannot easily detach. We're human -- go figure.
You are outraged at her ability to detach so easily, connect with friends and take care of herself. She's doing what you should be doing in a situation like this. Her instinct for self-preservation and self-care is more developed than yours.
Frank, you know the deal here. To US, this is sudden and unexpected. For THEM, this is the final stages of a process that they began long before they ever let us know the marriage was finally in the crapper.
You're pissed that she's detached so well. How can she after all these years together, etc? Well, she's been working on it Frank, for quite some time probably, despite the proclamations of love she might have shared with you. I'll remind you that I myself received a birthday card at the end of August with handwritten "I'll always love you's", then faced the bomb the middle of September. This is the routine, and you know that.
Last week I thought perhaps you had reached the point where you had accepted the relationship being over, for now at least. Truth is that you are typically the one who says there is NO chance. Yet here you are dragging yourself through the mess again, continuing to ask yourself the same questions that have no good answers.
I've told you before that I believe honesty is the proper approach in ALL of these marital situations. We should never have to stop being who we are, stop feeling what we feel, just to attract back to us a spouse who has emotionally checked out. If your wife cannot handle the truth, what have you lost? Is the state of things right now so good that you fear to lose it if you say the wrong thing? Surely not.
This is not a license to let loose with guns a'blazing. It's not permission to beat the hell out of her with accusations and recriminations. It's simply acknowledging that you shouldn't have to pretend to be or feel something that you are not.
You have two wonderful daughters, at least one of whom appears significantly bothered by the demise of her parents marriage. That is something to focus on.
You have business going on, some of it quite significant, all of it crucial to your financial well being. You certainly know HOW to work your business well, you just need a clear mind and focused energy. That is something to focus on.
You have a resource in the relationship with your in-laws. That is something to focus on when you're feeling rocky.
You have this Divorce Care group, which will potentially give you both a place to vent and receive support, as well as possibly meet a few people who might become friends. This is something to focus on.
You will NOT let this relationship with your wife put you back in the state you were in before. You're wiser now. You understand how you went about things wrong as it concerns YOUR well being.
I wish she could go now. I honestly believe that would be better for you and the girls. She lives in this current state of denial and selfishness, and the needs of ANYONE else are WAY after her own, hurting both you and the girls.
If she was gone already, how would you be living each day? What would you be doing, what would your focus be on?
Try living like that now.
I'm sorry that you're going thru this crap. I also know that you are far stronger than what is going on around you now.
Blessings,
Bill
"Don't tell me the sky is the limit when there are footprints on the moon."
If she was gone already, how would you be living each day? What would you be doing, what would your focus be on?
Try living like that now
That's the ticket.
If you can't do that, well OK. It's not easy acting "as if" she was gone.
But Bworl puts it well when he points out that doing something good for yourself, your business and your girls is worthwhile doing EVEN if you are honest about the pain.
Well she came into my office to tell me that she needed to let me know that she doesn't think I am a failure. She felt that she had to tell me that.
She told me she is just moving on because she is a 'happy person' and needs to surround herself with happy people who are like minded. She said that being in our relationship has made her so unhappy for so long and that she just 'changed' and needs to go on with her own life.
I told her that I understand the need to be happy because I am doing similar soul searching myself. I told her that this is hard because I'm not angry, I'm hurt. I'm hurt because her quest to 'be happy' always seem to come with there being 'other men' in the picture.
She was angry and said that she couldn't be happy with me or with anybody else. Don't understand that one.
She said we couldn't be happy together because I wouldn't allow her to help me. I told her that I really don't like the use of the word 'allow' in this context because someone doesn't 'stop' you from caring about them, from helping them. I gave examples of how to really 'help' and said that I realize she couldn't do that for me, but that I've learned that is the way you have a real relationship.
She got pissed and went off on how she 'knows' she didn't do a good job or didn't do enough. I told her that I understand the dynamic and don't blame her.
I told her that I have a different view of dealing with problems in relationships, that I feel like you should fight for it and not give up.
She said that we can't have a relationship because there is no more trust.
She cut me off and said she doesn't want to talk about this any more. She has an appointment that she wasn't going to be late for and left the room.
I went out after her and told her that that I wasn't blaming her for anything. She then went off and said that I put too many limitations on my life and that's my problem. She's going to be happy and that she's wasn't going to let me make her late for her appointment and she walked out the door.
I called her cell phone a couple minutes later and she didn't answer. So I left her a message where I simply said that I wasn't trying to blame her for anything, I was only trying to explain the insights I've gotten into our relationship and I'm sorry we had an argument.
So yeah, I guess I am a miserable unhappy person. I can make excuses but they are all in the past. And yeah, what she's doing has had an effect on me, and I've stayed miserable and unhappy.
And yes, I want to be happy. It's hard to do that when everything is falling apart all around me.
So, I better get really used to the fact that she will be gone. No trust, no happy feelings when she's around me, and I just don't see myself changing into a super happy guy in a few weeks. Or months.
She doesn't think she should have had to try so hard to 'help me' in the past, and the whole relationship has kept her 'unhappy'. And she has no trust in my ability to change that part of my life. Maybe I can't until she's gone, I've healed and life has moved on. One thing FOR SURE is that she isn't going to help.
I'm hurting again. I just don't know what to do. She sounds so 'right' and maybe I just wore her out the past few years. Yeah, the affair(s) were wrong but she's been feeling hopeless in our marriage and that's the bottom line.
ok, I give up. I can't do this any more. I need some kind of medication for anxiety / depression. I took Wellbutrin 2 years ago and it helped but it mostly took the edge off.
What has helped others to get happier? I know there's no 'happy pill' but I'll take any suggestions now, I'm desperate.
First off , I think you tried to tread the line between being blunt and being diplomatic. That's a tough juggling act. Do you really want to say things like
Quote:
I told her that I understand the need to be happy because I am doing similar soul searching myself.
that seem to me to send the message that you're agreeing with her decision, in fact you're on a similar path? Be careful with that. If you smell/recognize BS, call it BS, say you understand, or change the subject. Don't buy in to faulty ideas.
Secondly , I really think you do better by sticking to the truth as you see it. IF you're going to disagree with her that is. This exchange
Quote:
I told her that I really don't like the use of the word 'allow' in this context because someone doesn't 'stop' you from caring about them, from helping them. I gave examples of how to really 'help' and said that I realize she couldn't do that for me, but that I've learned that is the way you have a real relationship.
to me just comes across as condescending and as though you're trying to teach her the right way. I wouldn't expect that she receives THAT real well.
Thirdly , there is this comment
Quote:
And yes, I want to be happy. It's hard to do that when everything is falling apart all around me.
Your marriage is falling apart around you.
You're having financial difficulties, which YOU are working on and WILL straighten out because that's what you do and you're good at it.
Your kids are sad because they have a mother who has checked out of their family emotionally and is ready to pack her bags and leave. It's not fair to them, but they still have ONE parent who can be their rock and their strength.
You're right, it's hard. But you've still got alot of good things in your life, and you've still got a lot of good life in front of you. Doesn't matter if it's with her or not.
But YOU have to believe in that one.
Finally, why do you place such strength in the words coming from this woman? Look, I know we have to tread the line between discounting everything they say because of the old DB mantra (nothing out of their mouths, half of what they do) and trying to listen honestly to what they're saying. But this woman speaks her nonsense about how you wouldn't let her in, how she has been unhappy for a LONG time, how she is a HAPPY person (yeah, I'm seeing lots of happy in her lately), and you just take it all in as fact? And you point the fingers back at you and how messed up YOU are?
Come on Frank. You know better than this.
F'ed up spouses suck. Divorce sucks. Affairs by your spouse suck. Spouses who can't tolerate difficulties without resorting to leaving and f'ing others sucks. Spouses who see everyone else's problems and none of their own suck.
It all sucks.
Where's the strong man?
Where's the guy who read and can quote things like the Deida stuff?
See, for me, I just need to get pissed off enough that I stop buying in to the crap that my ex was spewing. I had to stop trying to WIN her back, and open my flipping eyes to the absolute DRIVEL that she was spouting, and then I KNEW. Then I KNEW that she was nuts, and that there was NOTHING I could do about it.
What do you need to do Frank? Get pissed off enough? Wind up in the hospital and lose the ability to care for your girls? Screw up all your work jobs so that you lose credibility with anyone who would hire you? What the hell will it take FRANK?
Damn!
I'm not trying to pile on or kick you when you're down. I agree with what crap this all is. But you have to realize, despite YOUR flaws, SHE IS THE MESSED UP ONE!
You don't let messed up people drive your perception of yourself.
Let the woman go. Let the marriage go. Become the MAN you are meant to be. Become the FATHER you are meant to be. Become the PROGRAMMING GURU you are trained to be.
God Frank. I pray for your family, all of you. I am SO flippin sad that not only is your wife making the decisions she is making, you are still allowing her madness to belittle you.
Put the focus on something worthy of your time and attention.
Blessings,
Bill
"Don't tell me the sky is the limit when there are footprints on the moon."
LUckily for me I got an appt with the doctor this afternoon. I'll get something to help with the hurt and anxiety. I can see clearly that I'm still stuck in that, and it is keeping me from letting go.
Frank - Taking an antidepressant is not a sign of weakness, okay?
In addition - make sure your doctor checks your thyroid and testosterone levels. Take fish oil and B vitamins. Get plenty of morning sunlight. Look into light therapy: http://www.brightenyourlife.info/ch10.html (this is one of my old professors).
Get regular exercise. Watch funny movies. Get out with friends.
Well, the doctor was cool. He gave me Lexapro 10mg and had a lot of samples so I have 2 months worth.
He told me that I should seriously consider if the marriage is worth saving. I told him it's not anything I can do something about. I think, like most people, he feels that if she had an affair 2 years ago it's a bust regardless.
Frank, Lexapro worked really well for me and was easy to wein off of when i was ready. Your doctor should give you a standard test (a bunch of questions) that will help him/her determine whether you need to be on anti-depressants or not.
Bworl and TheOden gave you great responses do I have not much to add to it. I will ask you this though, did you ever own a magic 8 ball? You know the thing you shake and ask questions and it tells you if they will or wont happen. Well, that game was a bunch of bullshitt, contrary to popular belief the eight ball didnt have all the answers. Your wife, is not a magic 8 ball dude. She does not have all the answers. She is detaching because it is the easiest way to avoid the real issues and she knows she doesnt have the answer as to how to fix your marriage.
Back way off Frank, let her go about her business and you go about yours.
A. Father A. Man A. Wage earner A. GAL B. Friends C. Material things D. Your wife and marriage to her. D. Figuring all of this out
