In this day and age men seem to have become so in touch with their feelings that they have forgotten what women want.
Which I completely understand. Alpha male, etc.
There's a lot more to this situation than just me, but your advice is not falling on deaf ears. I post the things I post HERE so I can analyze my own feelings and history. I do not 'pussyfoot' around my W.
But, you're post is a reminder to be MORE 'male'. It's easy to lose that and become complacent.
i dont want to piss you off but you didnt answer my question. are you done?
Nope, I'm not. However, W is 'done' and just wants to get out. No faith that we will ever be able to work together.
Read my threads and you'll see this has been a cycle for us.
And you'll also see that she isn't a good match for me as far as being 'supportive' when I need support. She waits for me to 'fix it' and then if I don't she eventually runs away. She's had an affair and has run 3 times now. This time she's saying that she has to do what's good for her at all costs, given lot's of reasons.
She's pretty shut down right now, and her friend 'P' helps her to see the 'good future' she has if she bails. She has friends who are new age types, who have failing or failed relationships but help her to choose to 'find herself'.
I will agree with you, I do 'pussyfoot' more often than I should. However, part of it is because I've been in a bad depression / anxiety state for the past year and gotten no help or support. While I'm getting help / support NOW it's not completely gone, I'm not completely 'healed' and I don't want to do things to push her away, but I can't DB either because I need to focus on my own stuff.
have you ever had the balls to just say fuckit! to tell her that this is the way things are going to be and tell her friend to piss off and just lay down the law and tell her you want this marriage to work and we are going to do this together. she needs to see you arent going to fold and be a wimp.thatg you mean business. no more mr nice guy. well you know what i mean not to be an [censored] either but no more bullshit. it seems to me that you have always given in to her and she takes advantage.
have you ever had the balls to just say fuckit! to tell her that this is the way things are going to be and tell her friend to piss off and just lay down the law and tell her you want this marriage to work and we are going to do this together. she needs to see you arent going to fold and be a wimp.thatg you mean business. no more mr nice guy. well you know what i mean not to be an [censored] either but no more bullshit. it seems to me that you have always given in to her and she takes advantage.
I hear your point. At this time 'telling her' isn't going to go over very well. She is acting like someone in MLC. And, the blowback isn't really something I can deal with right now.
What I CAN do (and will) is start talking in positives and take some damn control over the situation. She knows I set boundaries she needs to observe while she's still living here. She needs to see that I'm taking care of business and that I expect her to be part of that while she is still living here.
I have a really good counselor who knows W pretty well. She feels like W needs to really see what it's like to not have me so she can appreciate what it's like TO have me.
Still, I agree that the Alpha Male stuff is needed. Right now it could push her away if I'm 'too controlling' but I can certainly control MY stuff and she can either be part of the solution or get out of the way.
I don't have to 'tell her' anything. Just do what needs to be done and she can stay or go.
D17 and I went for a drive this evening. She was pretty annoyed because W had taken her cd's out of the car cd changer and put in hers, which D17 says are 'depressing'. I did notice a lot of old 80's songs, love songs, other stuff. It actually WAS depressing.
D17 told me she has been confiding in her ex boyfriends mother about our situation because she needed someone to talk to. She asked me not to tell W because "W would get upset and think she's a bad mom". I told her I wouldn't and that I was glad she had a wise adult she could talk to besides me. I asked her why she told ME this and she said "because I knew you wouldn't get upset".
She also told me that W had promised to take her out to look for jobs and other things and ended up scheduling massages or just forgetting. She's kind of unhappy with W not being there when she says she will be.
When we got home around 8pm dinner was made, a 'mexican chef salad'. BUT D17 doesn't eat meat and it had meat in it. W knows this and only made one salad and put the meat in it. She KNOWS D17 doesn't eat meat and usually she puts the meat on the side and whomever wants it adds it themself. D17 was upset and hungry so I got the fixings from the fridge and made her her own salad. W came downstairs and saw what was going on and apologized.
I went to my office to check up on e-mail and W came in and asked me about 'talking to D12 about the divorce'. I said that we were supposed to do that Saturday but W didn't come home during the day and she said she got another massage so she couldn't come home. So, I told her that I didn't think 8pm on a Sunday night was a good time to talk to her. She started to go off on 'well when are we going to, we can't put it off forever'. I told her that it seems important to her, so we can talk to D12 whenever W feels we should.
I said "I'm not in any hurry to break my daughters heart".
She started to tear up and said "I don't want to either, I wish I didn't have to do it. I guess I want to put it off as long as possible. I guess we can wait"
She was hurt and angry, then she left the room.
About 15 minutes later D17 told me she had to make a 'traditional' food for school tomorrow (Pirogies). She had arranged with W to do that this evening but W was watching a movie in the bedroom and D17 just decided she didn't seem to care and asked me to help her. I asked her about mom helping and she said "She doesn't seem to care, she's watching a movie".
So, I helped her. W came downstairs and was 'oh, I thought you wanted me to help?' and D17 said 'you looked like you were busy so I asked Dad to help'. W started to explain but D17 didn't react.
She went back to the bedroom. I noticed that she had drank a glass of wine tonight. No big deal but she did last night too. She only does that when she is in some emotions lately.
Well, D17 and I made the food she needed and D12 came into the kitchen and wanted to make some too. So we did that also and had some fun. W came in a few times and wasn't ignored (except by me) but wasn't participating either. The kids weren't rejecting her, they just didn't care.
A little later I went upstairs to get ready for bed and she walked by me while I only had pants on and no shirt and smiled and said 'hey there skinny!'. I've lost about 10 pounds in the past couple months and look better. I didn't respond to her comment. I was also stretching and my neck hurts, so I said 'ow'. She asked me what hurt and I said 'my neck'. So she says 'do you want me to squeeze it for you?' and of course I said "No thank you". Kind of a bummer because it does hurt, but divorcing means not being friends.
I've been nice enough, and in all these events I've been 'firm' or 'matter of fact'. Yeah, this DOES suck that D12 is more sensitive than D17 and will be devastated that we're going through this AGAIN. WE could stop this but W has her 'plan' and it must be implemented! And her stupid friends have no clue about the reality of our marriage or W's life so they encourage her. Woo Hoo!
Anyway, I'm ok right now. I feel much more empowered because my daughters once again see me as 'grounded' and they see W as somewhat selfish. I would be so much happier if W and I were both grounded at the same time. It's interesting that when the girls and I do things and exclude her she seems unhappy about it.
Out of interest Frank, when your girls tell you things about your W do you actually agree with them or just listen?
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Anyway, I'm ok right now. I feel much more empowered because my daughters once again see me as 'grounded' and they see W as somewhat selfish. I would be so much happier if W and I were both grounded at the same time. It's interesting that when the girls and I do things and exclude her she seems unhappy about it.
That paragraph just jumped out at me. I can see why it made you feel good but your D's should also not be able to get inbetween you and your W or be put in the position where they could become pawns in a power struggle. I am not saying that IS what you are doing but I could see that it could head that way. When my H had his A, much though I often felt like telling the kids how awful he was and a bad person for what he had done, ( and I do think they would have followed my lead; at least in the beginning), I bit my tongue because which ever way things fell; eventually, H and I were going to have to be nice to one another and back each other up with the children. Whichever way it turned out we would still have to parent together.
I can understand totally why your W is unhappy when you and the girls do something that excludes her - you seem to her to be 'winning' the girls over when that happens and I expect and it makes her feel like the bad guy. I expect she is thinking that they just don't understand how she feels etc. and it makes her feel very lonely.
Saffie me 46 H 46 M in 1986 D20,D18,S16,D13 H's A 01/05 to 07/06 H recommitted to M 07/06 renewed vows 09/06 Going from strength to strength
Out of interest Frank, when your girls tell you things about your W do you actually agree with them or just listen?
Generally I just listen. I never 'agree' with D17 if she says negative things about her mom. Often I'll counter with something positive about her mom. For example when she said something about her mom not doing things with her I told her that mom was working extra hard to help with the financials.
I will never sit there and say 'yeah, mom doesn't seem to care about anyone but herself'. Never.
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Anyway, I'm ok right now. I feel much more empowered because my daughters once again see me as 'grounded' and they see W as somewhat selfish. I would be so much happier if W and I were both grounded at the same time. It's interesting that when the girls and I do things and exclude her she seems unhappy about it.
That paragraph just jumped out at me. I can see why it made you feel good but your D's should also not be able to get inbetween you and your W or be put in the position where they could become pawns in a power struggle. I am not saying that IS what you are doing but I could see that it could head that way. When my H had his A, much though I often felt like telling the kids how awful he was and a bad person for what he had done, ( and I do think they would have followed my lead; at least in the beginning), I bit my tongue because which ever way things fell; eventually, H and I were going to have to be nice to one another and back each other up with the children. Whichever way it turned out we would still have to parent together.
Totally agree. I will NOT do that to my kids. They always see me be kind in my words about their mom.
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I can understand totally why your W is unhappy when you and the girls do something that excludes her - you seem to her to be 'winning' the girls over when that happens and I expect and it makes her feel like the bad guy. I expect she is thinking that they just don't understand how she feels etc. and it makes her feel very lonely.
Probably true. I want to add that I felt uncomfortable during all this because I don't like it when she feels excluded, but that's between her and the girls. I didn't say or do anything, she could have chosen to 'get involved' as nobody was telling her not to.
I'm very careful not to ever put W down or express anger about her to my daughters. I don't want them to hate her and I don't want her to ever HEAR them say 'Dad said...' in a negative way either.
I didn't do that 2 years ago during her affair and I won't do it now.
Regarding the confusion around telling D12.. It seems your wife may be "temperature taking." You said, "ok. we'll tell her on the weekend," and seemed ok about it. Maybe she expected you to cry and beg and it threw her off.
I say this because when the weekend came your your wife did nothing about this talk. Knowing your feelings about what the right time would be (not a school night) she launched back into it when it was safe that you wouldn't say, "ok, let's take care of it now."
This is the kind of stupid stuff I did when hungry for attention or drama. If it wasn't happening, I made it happen. I might have been telling my H at times that I wanted out, but really I just needed the "high" of hearing that he wanted me.
Your wife seems just as immature as I was in those days.
I might have been telling my H at times that I wanted out, but really I just needed the "high" of hearing that he wanted me.
Your wife seems just as immature as I was in those days.
Just throwing it out there....
Good grief, I'll catch it. Since my MLC, I realized how I thrived on that same kind of crap back then. So she's got a point, Frank. Although your wife is clueless that's she's doing it at this stage.
