Time for a new thread (old one is close to 200!). Was struggling with a new name but my horoscope this morning gave me the title...
Thank goodness you still communicate brilliantly. To say the unexpected is going on at work may be an understatement. But, with everything haywire, you are the clear voice of reason and will save the day. Please do, dear Gemini, we all count on you! And stop worrying about that relationship. Make things better by looking ahead. On Saturday your planet Mercury goes retrograde for three weeks and brings odd events in the shape of other people's hidden agendas. So, get everyone to spill the beans today and say clearly how you expect to be treated: kindly. Just in case they've forgotten.
Well guys, new thread, new outlook, I hope. Had an R. talk with H. last night -- probably bad DB'ing in spades -- but I feel like we crossed another barrier.
As I posted yesterday, I was feeling anxious (a la an anxiety attack) all day. I got home and H and I wavered a bit on going out, staying in, whatever. H asked if something was bothering me and I said "work". He asked if that was all and I said that I had been feeling anxious and sad all day and that I was missing feeling close to him. I brought up the idea that it's been a while since we've been intimate and also that it seemed as though we had stopped doing some of the things that we had been doing a month ago (surprising each other with dates, etc.). I told him that I wasn't blaming him I was just telling him how I feel and also that sometimes things feel great -- mentioned Sunday in particular.
H. responded defensively -- said "oh great, now I'm going to feel anxious and as though you're counting the days". I asked him how we were ever going to learn how to talk to each other -- how could one of us ever say how we felt if the other took it wrong or personally.
The conversation continued -- I talked about how I felt unattractive and scared. I mentioned that I wondered if "something else was going on". He said that now he was going to feel bad about my anxiety and that I would feel "paranoid" (UGH -- shades of MANY conversations pre-confirmation of the EA). He didn't sound angry or even particularly dejected -- just factual.
Anyway, I'm screwing up the order of everything.
What was the upshot? Well, some good things were said:
1. H. apologized for the way that he had responded -- said that he recognized it made it hard for me to speak my truth when he took things personally. I said that I could understand that since I did it myself with my own hotbuttons.
2. H said that he felt badly about my feel sad and lonely because he recognized that it was partly because of the things that he "had done".
3. I apologized for bringing things up again and told H. that I hope he knew that I wasn't doing it to hurt him.
4. I told H. that I forgive him for the A. and that I hoped he would forgive me for the things I did to contribute to our M. woes.
5. H. reconfirmed that he loves me and that he does "want" me.
6. Towards the end of the evening I asked H. if he was "going to be allright" and he said "Yes" very enthusiastically.
7. H gave me a knee-buckling passionate kiss. Looking forward to the next installment!
8. Other stuff I'm forgetting...
So, where does this leave us? Well, we got a few things out there. It wasn't the most "solution oriented" chat but it wasn't tears and outrage either. I think that the discussion about not being able to tell the other person something due to the response is a big step forward. We need to get to the place where we can manage our own "crap" IMHO.
I really, really, really, really want to leave the EA and the ow behind here. So, just do it, right? I cannot believe that it's been almost 6 months since I found out. I cannot believe that I still give one second thought to her and whether they are still in contact. I cannot believe that I have let this thing control my freaking daily existence for as long as it has. Heck, if you count the time when I suspected too we're looking at 9-10 months.
So, my thread title is expected to be apt. I gotta put the crap behind me. I have to move on with my life. I hope that H. is beside me. I hope that he knows that he is loved and safe and respected and admired. I hope that our conversation didn't make him feel unappreciated -- 'cause that's not it at all. I hope that he can leave the past behind, too and "make things better by looking ahead".
First step for me? I'm gonna give myself a break -- I'm gonna go out, have fun, see cool movies, eat good food, drink funky drinks, you name it. I am hanging up my "fix-it" hat once again. I've been too focused on stuff and not focused enough on appreciating my daily existence. I have a lot to be grateful for.
Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
Quote: First step for me? I'm gonna give myself a break -- I'm gonna go out, have fun, see cool movies, eat good food, drink funky drinks, you name it. I am hanging up my "fix-it" hat once again. I've been too focused on stuff and not focused enough on appreciating my daily existence. I have a lot to be grateful for.
as usual, awesome stuff sage!!
Quote: I really, really, really, really want to leave the EA and the ow behind here. So, just do it, right?
so with you on this one...but how to truly put it in the past?? yes, we've accepted that it happend (do we still have questions about it's true nature? ea/pa), but how to let it go??
In my thinking, bringing your feelings and concerns into the light for you H to see, may not always be bad DBing.
Each relationship, each phase of the relationship, and each person within that relationship, is in a constant state of flux and has it's own unique dynamics.
So if you are at the point of needing to check in with your H on issues that are turning toxic in your system, why not? Only you can know (or at least sense) that you've reached a certain benchmark where that sort of openess is likely to be safe. You've learned the importance of presenting the information in a loving and non-blaming way and you've worked hard on becoming a more positive you.
Look at the positive outcome that came out of your latest talk.
I think that you are on the nose about the importance of "looking ahead", however, because of what happened in the past which was so very painful, your psyche is not likely to let you ignore it completely. Suppress..... possibly. But is that what you really want?
I look at those little talks , if done at the right time and with a light hand, as taps to release pressure that naturally builds up in some of us after such a toxic event.
Trust your inner voice, it's led you through the big storm so far.
Thank you so much for your wise words and support. Can you tell that I am often "all or nothing"? You have helped me to see that letting go a bit here, a bit there is wiser and healthier than the hold it in -- blow it up philosophy. So, backtrack my statement about "bad DB'ing" and wrap it up in the thoughts that I stepped out of my normal DB flow to try something different.
One of the things that I hear from H is that when I hold thing in for too long, I give off a "vibe" that leaves him tense and upset. So, the key is, how to I shed the things that don't need to be discussed, touch lightly on the things that do and hold "onto myself" if he doesn't respond well? Getting my voice back -- not shrill and controlling but confident and sure. That's the key.
One of the sad parts for me is that H. is often defensive when I ask for reassurance...not sure if that's because I ask for it too often? But, something about the way I phrase it seems to leave him feeling as though I am judging my insecurity and sadness as HIS failure. Not my intent!
Now, onto you my dear. You are ON the boards but have resisted my gentle requests for an update from you on your thread...how are you? I am worried about you. No pressure, post here, post on your thread, post no where if that is your desire, just know that I am thinking of you.
Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
Quoting Sage: I really, really, really, really want to leave the EA and the ow behind here. So, just do it, right?
Quoting lostlove: so with you on this one...but how to truly put it in the past?? yes, we've accepted that it happend (do we still have questions about it's true nature? ea/pa), but how to let it go??
LL
I don't know.
Part of me tells myself that I have let go of what happened but that what I keep clinging to is the thought/fear that it is still going on -- in other words, that if I just knew FOR CERTAIN that it was OVER that I'd be able to move on.
But, frankly, I think that's me lying to myself in some ways.
What I need to let go of is the need to know, the search for "certainty" where there isn't any, the desire to control the outcome at all costs.
Some days I feel strong - I feel sure that I will be ok no matter what. I recognize that life is as it is and that my tendancy to control is fear based -- when the fear isn't there, I feel more sure of myself -- more certain that I can handle whatever comes my way. That takes the pressure off me NEEDING to know the unknowable -- not that H is being faithful but that he will ALWAYS be here, etc.
Some days I don't feel strong and that's when I focus my precious energy on useless things -- when I replay what I read and saw and expand on it -- when I wonder if they are laughing at me, plotting, back to the same old, same old. Back to the big "eff-you, sage".
I know in my heart that the only way to let go is to just do it. To accept that I cannot control my H. or his wants, desires and actions. To walk directly into the fire of loving someone who has hurt me deeply, has hurt himself, too. To remind myself over and over and over again that loving him with all of my heart through all of my fears is never, ever going to be a bad thing. Really.
H and I talked about destroying the shirt that he was wearing the day I found out -- she had mentioned it in an email to him (they had been together that day) and it was clear from the mention that they had "fooled around" in some way. I haven't brought it up to him again. Not sure why.
There's a part of me that feels that closure is only going to come if I see her. There's lots of people who say that the op doesn't owe us anything -- I feel a bit justified in saying that's not entirely true in my case -- she sought me out as a friend during the whole horrible time. She lied to me too. I'd like to face her but I don't know what I'd say. And, frankly, in my head I know that even that isn't going to be wise or provide closure.
In the end, I think it's going to come only from within. I'd like my H. to help me through the process but at the end of the day, it's only about my thoughts. I'm considering going away by myself for a few days and closing the door on this part of my life through some ritual or another.
Ah, who the hell knows?
Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
I know how you feel. I thought I had put all the EA "stuff" behind me. But yesterday was the 1 year anniversary of her H calling to confirm my suspicions. I didn't want to call her, I wanted to call her H. Let him know how badly my sitch has turned. Find out if he ever found out what really happened between them on business trip that started everything. I thought long and hard, I even dialed their number but I hung up. I realized I would simply torture myself.
I think you know this too, but that demon is there. It takes a lot of hard work to let it go but it's the only way to move forward. It is our choice to just stop the negative thoughts or let them control us. It isn't easy but it can be done.
Don't be too hard on yourself. You have gone through a lot. It's bad enough when your H betrays you but them when it's with a friend it makes it worse. Keep your chin up. You are doing so very well.
Quote: in other words, that if I just knew FOR CERTAIN that it was OVER that I'd be able to move on.
Quote: But, frankly, I think that's me lying to myself in some ways.
I think your right...besides what would it take for you to believe that it's over..really really over...hell my h's ow has her house up for sale and is leaving her h...yet my h is still home and seems to be making progress toward "us" and I still have my doubts about "their plan".
I think we have to just decide to accept that it's over and belive it without looking for difinitive proof of it.
Quote: That takes the pressure off me NEEDING to know the unknowable -- not that H is being faithful but that he will ALWAYS be here, etc.
here's a way to look at that one...a fear my h has is that I won't always be here..or rather that I wont always allow him to be here. just as he left...I also at anytime can give up and leave or have him leave. does that offer comfort, probably not..but if you realize that the fear is on both sides it may help. inother words it does us no good to fear they will leave for they also have the fear that becuase of what they "did" we could leave also.
Quote: it was clear from the mention that they had "fooled around" in some way. I haven't brought it up to him again. Not sure why.
the less you know the better? because in asking he may become defensive putting you off..or you may hear things you aren't sure you want to know.
Quote: There's a part of me that feels that closure is only going to come if I see her
trust me on this it wont. though I never "saw" ow, I spoke to her plenty, eventually she appologized to me..actually several different occasions she did..hey I even had the pleasure of making her cry...but it offers me no solice. the things I need to hear, I need to hear from my h not ow.
Quote: In the end, I think it's going to come only from within. I'd like my H. to help me through the process but at the end of the day, it's only about my thoughts. I'm considering going away by myself for a few days and closing the door on this part of my life through some ritual or another.
excellent!!!
Quote: To remind myself over and over and over again that loving him with all of my heart through all of my fears is never, ever going to be a bad thing. Really.
Quote: One of the sad parts for me is that H. is often defensive when I ask for reassurance...not sure if that's because I ask for it too often? But, something about the way I phrase it seems to leave him feeling as though I am judging my insecurity and sadness as HIS failure. Not my intent!
Here is what I do whenever I need to talk to husband about something that has reached "code orange" for me.
1) First of all, I try not to let the toxic build up go so long that I've reached "code red", because by then, I'm misfiring emotional missiles right in my own face. This is not to say that in "code orange" I'm not feeling plenty of emotion and fear, just that I'm still able to man-the-controls a bit better.
2) I only approach the subject when I sense H is not distracted with what he thinks are important things and is in at least a somewhat neutral or open mood.
3) I begin by looking him in the eyes and assuring him that I am not angry with him nor do I wish to guilt or hurt him in any way and that I am not looking to assign blame. I let him know that I am simply siphoning off some uncomfortable feelings that are making me feel bad.
4) I try to keep the issues that are bothering me seperated from H. I treat it as an exercise in dissipting negative energy into the atmosphere, but not on, at or into H.
5) In asking "those" questions, whenever I get what appears to be an honest answer, I tell him in a calm and warm voice, "I appreciate you telling me the truth". I say this even if it isn't exactly what I wanted to hear. If I have good cause to believe his response was a lie, I simply do not respond and wait a bit before either one of us decides to continue on.
6) I always touch or hug him when the conversation is over. Also, I try to be the one who ends it.
7) I try to follow-up, at an appropriate time, some sort of act of kindness or to do something that I know that will help fill his love tank (from the "Five Love Languages) as a "thanks for listening and responding" gesture. I keep it subtle and incidental so that it won't be obvious to him, but hopefully, on a subconcious level he will relate his compliance to listening and conversing with a pleasant aftermath.
8) I do this sparingly and on a needs-only-basis.
So far I have navigated through that scary tactic without taking on too much water, at least that is the way it appears so far.
I too, am an "all or nothing" kind of person, so I think I understand some of your inner battles.
You're bound to have days when that deeply compressed anxiety is going to want to surface and check out the present envirnoment. Please don't see this as weakness on your part, it is your inner being trying to clean house. Have you tried speaking gently to that part of yourself during those moments? Like you would to a little child who has lost their mommy in the crowd. I know that sounds goofy, but if it helps, who cares?
Excellent stuff from Jeannine there! I'm copying it into a word file, it's exactly what I need to do!
Sage, I think the solitary getaway is a great idea. I had fun on our weekend, but I still feel the need for that kind of aloneness and quiet reflection.
