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It's SO nice to know that someone else out there gets it. Know how I feel? I feel like he got what he wanted, thought deep down that *I* was the problem and that's all solved now, so he doesn't have to change a darn thing. *I* could change, but he can't. It makes me CRAZY.

I feel like what I hear described as MLC. I have had thoughts of just getting in the car and driving away...for a weekend, a week, a month, forever.... And I know it's crazy, but how many freaking times do I have to say the same thing? I feel the fog...I get the alien a lot better than I did then...and it's just plain rough.

I agree: my H and your H share DNA somehow. I don't think it's just the penis; Rob presumably has a penis as does Jeff, and they don't seem to share the DUH that our H's do/did.

Just ranting...I need to refocus on solutions, though for the life of me I'm just stumped. Any chance you'd be in the neighborhood for a drink anytime soon? *grin*

Hope things are all going well with you!

SD

Jeff & Julie~thanks for checking in. I owe both of you a debt of gratitude for your support and wisdom!

Well crap. MC again tonight. I have decided I am doomed to a life of MC bi-weekly, talking in circles and forever being frustrated. We will talk about stuff, agree on stuff, and then go to our real lives where it's as if we never had a convo in MC about things we're going to work on/try.

I want more than getting along. That's good, but I get along with my grocer and my hairdresser as well. I want intimacy, I want my H to take responsibility for his feelings and happiness, and I want him to take responsibility for working on this M too. I feel...cheated. Distrustful. Because kids, I have been a raging b*tch all week (some of it H related b/c of no follow through from MC, some of it not), and H hasn't called me on anything. I think in some ways I did it on purpose to see what would happen...if there would be any change from before when he just held onto it until it met the whore and decided it was all over between us. H did nothing different from before...not a darn thing. Kissed my butt. Accepted my cranky moods. And do you know what? That just made me angrier.

And I know I need to accept responsibility for myself...and I am going to do just that, but even when I am wonderful and good, I am going to do things that piss him off and I am most definitely going to screw up. If he doesn't step up and change his patterns, then it's just a matter of time before he meets his next person who makes him feel good and decides I am, once again, a piece of poo. Which I'm not; I am human, and a hella lot more conscious than before.

So how do I ever let go and really pursue intimacy with someone who is so guarded they won't set boundaries or ask for what they want and need? When I have changed and H has not...tell me, what keeps this from happening again? NADA. And that's my problem.

I can't...won't...shoulder the responsibility for this M alone. H is too afraid to voice his feelings until it crushes him...and the last time took 10 years. I want more from my life...and time is ticking on my ability to have children, and that weighs on me as well.

Any words of wisdom? Because I just want to cry a lot...run away a lot...let go and just do my thing and let H figure out what it's like to be on that end of things like we all were. And I'm plain old tired.

Don't know what I'll say in MC tonight. I feel like it's just a waste of $$ at this point....

SD

Wasn't pretty at all folks. Apparently, *I* am the crazy one. H is perfect, and this is all in my head.

I'm done with MC. It just makes me angrier as H is unresponsive and claims confusion and that I am out of my gourd. Tell me why I should stay?

SD

Sorry, SD, that sucks. Will post more later.

A quick thought though - maybe a different counselor is the first thing you need...?

Right SD - seems there is a lot of H's being horses ars*es out there at the moment!
OK, now you are angry, that's fine, it's OK to be angry but TAKE NO ACTION. calm down first, then you can see this with a detached mind.

That done, some of the bleedin' obvious:
1. MC isn't working for you
2. stating what you want from H isn't working
3. getting angry with him and trying to provoke a reaction out of him isn't working.

So - what now? Well, it seems talk won't work. Or maybe one final one, in which you ask him to just think about it. Then point out that you are about to do something you don't want to do and leave him. Why? because you feel you've tried all you can and it's still not enough. It's up to you if you do this of course, and think carefully cos he may just say "ok then". Are you ready for that?

But the point being you can't carry on with this M the way it is. Yes it only takes one to save a M but it takes TWO to rebuild it. The WAS's are notorious for thinking solutions just fall out of the sky, and they are darned slow at catching on, but eventually my H did. He said "I am not the kind of person to juat say that I'm bored now and walk off". Maybe your H is just being extra slow? Maybe spelling it out to him in BIG CAPITALS might just get his attention. Then you have to back off and let him think. This is the hardest thing - trusting a WAS again. it;s not in the slightest bit easy, but at some point you have to let them rise up ... even if it's slow.

I'm not saying end your M, I would never tell anyone that, just looking for another solution .. will carry on thinking on it too.

I hope Rob's back soon and jeff comes along as well ... and Swashy, like a little reunion.

and one final point - how much is a flight to SD? My nearest airport is Gatwick if you can find a cheap flight to London. You are welcome to stay over ... would certainly give your H a shock if he can take his head out of his backside!

Hi SD,

Sorry it's taken so long to get back to you. Lots of thoughts buzzing around in my head....

First, I'm trying to understand where your H is "at" right now. (Other than with his head where the sun don't shine, obviously.) You said in a previous post he is "improving, but stuck and afraid to risk anything". I guess the immediate gut reaction I have to that statement is - he IS risking, risking EVERYTHING! And it seems to me that you laid that out to him, some time ago, when you "bombed him back." Would you agree?

Reminds me of the old Rush song that says "If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice." I sit here and ask myself, does he not understand where this path is going to take him? Or does he understand it, but is unwilling to change? Or unable to?

To give him a tiny bit of credit, you did say he is improving - what does that look like to you, and how do you respond to it?

Second, WTF is up with your MC? It sounds from your description like he/she is content to sit back and let you explode in these sessions, and that either is supporting H's "SD is the crazy one" attitude, or comes across that way. True? Seriously, I just can't get my head around that.

Would it help to talk to MC one-on-one? Or are they just completely worthless? Or is the problem really more H, and any MC would be similarly helpless to improve things?

Third, there's you. I'm so glad to hear you are still Happy SD, still GALing and growing. Never lose your grip on that, it is what has gotten you this far, and it's the most important thing of all. But it seems like you're losing sight of that person when you are around H these days - letting HIS problems change YOUR attitude.

So, I would like to suggest, you've vented in MC and you've vented here - rightly so! Now, pull back a bit and focus more on you - same old mantra, right? Ease off on the Drama with a Capital D for a couple of days - not for H, but for yourself. Get out of the immediacy of your upset emotions, and have some fun. Then come back and tackle all of this with a calmer frame of mind. OK?

Finally, yes, of course I would love to meet you, Jen and the rest of the gang someday. (Talked with Jen just once, almost a year ago, when I was in Memphis with Ian and the gang - I can still remember her voice. ) As you said over on my thread, we have gone through some amazingly tough things together - you all will always hold a special place in my heart.

Hope things look rosier for you very soon! Many hugs! (((((SD)))))

Rob, didn't you know? Jeff has invited himself, you and SD over to mine next Xmas

Sorry for the hijack SD ... I'm still thinking on this one too, will come back with more soon, something more constructive. Hang on in there!!!!!

Yes, I would agree. But like Jen said, this seems to be something where we have to repeat ourselves until we're ready to bean them with something heavy. I'm having to bring back my old friend Patience a whole lot.

Where is H's head? I think H IS really afraid. He's got what he asked for: a W who expresses what she wants and needs and wants more than the cohabitation we currently have. He doesn't know what to do with that...and the truth is, while he dealt with *some* of his sh!t, he didn't deal with a whole other part of it.

H doesn't confront. H avoids conversations that might be uncomfortable or difficult. I think H just wants me to be unicorns and rainbows and then everything will just happen without talking about it. But that's just not the case...and I used to be guilty of avoiding the hard conversations, but I just can't do that anymore.

So we're going to uncomfortable places...places where we might have a difference of opinion, where he may not be the expert, where we have to see things from all perspectives. And he's balking at it. We're talking things like being able to tell the other person that something they're doing is bothering them, setting boundaries, finances, sex, children, bills, hopes/dreams/goals for the M, etc.



H is pretty good on anything where he can hide behind actions. I have to tell you, his primary LL is acts of service, and he is Mr. AOS let me tell you. He is trying to meet my needs in other ways too since I've asked. I have thanked him for these things when they happen and give him "credit" in therapy.

But we still don't function as a couple. I mean, H decided to go part time and start his own business, and I didn't get a real say. We never talked about the impact to our finances or how we were going to handle it. Let me get this straight: I totally think this is a good move for him. However, how do you make this decision independent of a M? And it's more complicated than I guess it sounds, because H and I have NEVER shared a bank account. I write a check for my half of bills monthly, H pays for vacations, and I pay for groceries weekly. We trade off other things like eating out and entertainment. Generally this works really well for us because H and I have pretty different ways of approaching money. But now things are going to need to shift, and we haven't YET talked about it.

This is my main issue. It's the main reason H walked away, because he NEVER opened his d@mn mouth to express dissatisfaction. To see him repeating this same behavior makes me nervous. I mean, did he learn NOTHING?



MC is actually pretty good. However, H and I seem to be stuck, and MC hasn't figured out how to help us around it. She's been very good about helping H "hear" where I am, but he's not processing well.

I told H last time that I was exactly where he was when all this mess started: ready to leave. The difference, I told him, was that I had tried to work on the M and asked for what I wanted. He seems clueless...and he says he just wants us to "be nice to each other and move on from there." Like the rest will happen because a kind fairy sees us and waves her magic wand.

Dunno about continuing MC. Honestly, I just leave pissed off more than when I came.



Yes, I agree. So I am setting my boundaries and taking time for ME. Just living my life and doing what I want. I'm too tired to carry this M by myself...and so maybe it will just die. I'm kind of okay with that...I've done everything *I* can, and the rest requires a partner. We'll see.

Thanks for all of your input. I'm doing better...less emotional...back to being detached...taking care of myself. It seems to affect H's behavior as well...things have been better.

SD

Well, I have to confess, there's an awful lot that W and I have never talked out either.

I believe I do see slow improvement, and continuing baby steps by both me and her. Part of me says that, as long as it's moving in the right direction, take it slow - Time and Patience, yada yada yada.

OTOH, sometimes I feel like a real chickensh!t taking things so slowly, rather than just Laying It All On The Table and going for The Big Relationship Overhaul.

Am I being patient, or am I avoid conflict and coasting too much in the ol' Comfort Zone? Some of both, I guess. And so, the journey continues.

pyramids...think they laid the whole thing out in one shot? Or did they slowly drag each wretched stone along through the dirt until that huge structure was built?

Just a question from the sphynx...what do I have to do but sit here and stare at the desert all day...