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Don't give up. I've seen some pretty dark days and I've felt like it would be so much easier to just try and move on. Dig deep though. You have the strength to continue to love her. I don't know if your religious at all or not, but the bible has the best description of love that I can find. I wrote this out and put it on my desk so that I could read it whenever I felt like it was hard to love that day.

Love is patient, Love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with truth. It always protects, always trusts, always preserves.

Love your W like this and she will notice. It's not easy to do, but that is unconditional love.

John,

Being consistent is a huge part of this. That's why it's so important that if you are going to make changes that you do them for yourself. That way they will stick. I had a few backslides where I wasn't consistent and they were usually followed her pulling away again. It's important to be the person who you want to be and be consistent at it...

Consistency is helping me to be the best for me. It really has a lot to do with my biggest change in my life, no internet games, chess, etc...I lost my soul doing that and it lead to my destruction, ... anger, unhappiness, lack of motivation, etc... So for me consistently interacting positively with WAW is somewhat easy now because I simple do not feel like I did before. Like yesterday, WAW says to the effect 'this hasn't been what we've been doing with 5D'. It would have been so easy to argue or dispute it but I didn't I just changed the topic and showed two 180's. I guess you can say that my changes are the real me so I just don't find it that difficult.

The confusing part for me is that I can do something consistent and get two different reactions from WAW...I guess it shows her confusion but I still need to react consistently positive and never negatively.

Consistency powerful idea thanks for reminding me.

bhopeful,

Several suggestions (hopefully not too harsh):
1) You did the breaking down thing, the crying, the desperation thing. That's okay...but don't make a habit out of it. Personally, I feel like a lot of the rest of the night was about pity for someone she cares about. She comforted you. She worried you'd kill yourself or something. It seemed almost like a mothering instinct. The feelings don't just stop because she wants out, but it isn't that great of starting point for a new relationship you hope to have with her. I think she'd also respect your show of strength and independence. She'd appreciate the fact that you can survive, and hopefully flourish. Being complete and happy on your own doesn't mean you don't want her in your life, just that you'd be someone great to be with because you bring a complete unique person to the mix.

2) Do you really mean it when you say you can be a "free spirit"? Do you intend, for the rest of your life, to be adventurous (or whatever it was that she felt she needed)? Or is that just one of those promises made to win her back? This is just one example, but it's really important that you not only hear what she says she wants (which by the way can change weekly), but most importantly explore whether it's something YOU want. If you really feel that you would have liked to be more of a free spirit, then start working on it by yourself, for yourself. Go do something. Be spontaneous. Take a little trip. Leave some of this behind you at least for a long weekend. If you really intend to be that way, then you have to be able to do it even without her.

3)Don't pick going dark because it's something that is suggested here or in the book. Do it either because it will be what works with her or because you absolutely need it for yourself. Going dark is just a possibility. From what little I know of your situation, I'd say it isn't a great one. Why? Because she's still comfortable enough around you to spend the night. Contrary to popular belief, going dark doesn't necessarily make the WAW suddenly think, "I'm losing him. I've got to win him back." It could do that, but it could also show that you don't care. It's a fine line to walk and one you shouldn't walk if it will result in moving you further away from your goal of reconciliation. At the most, I'd suggest going more "dim", meaning, less contact and see how that goes. But you need to take your cues from her. If she's initiating, then she wants to see you. You don't have to always be available.

4)Make sure you are listening and validating. I know you meant well when you said not to make any rash decisions, but at this point it may feel controlling. Even a question, "how did you get interested in that?" is better than telling her it isn't wise. You could even try validating things of that sort while interjecting a compliment, "well, I'm sure you'd be good at it." or you could simply ask questions about it, "what would you be doing?"

5) Lastly, you might see only slow or no progress until she's worked through the feeling for OM. It's hard right now for her to feel romantically interested in you because she's romantically interested in OM. It's a fantasy, but she needs to discover that for herself, if she's ever going to. The feelings she has for OM may seem foreign (and adolescent) to you, but the call of "what if" is really strong. She'll either get over it and remember the romantic feelings she has for you or she won't. You can't control it. That being said, you could make strides to help her feel more attracted to you. Do you look dejected when she sees you? That's not very attractive. Spruce up your appearance. Change up the wardrobe if you can afford it. Modernize yourself a bit. Keep up on your appearance. And wear a smile and laugh. Happy people are more attractive....you kind of want what they have...joy.

Just some thoughts to mull over. Good luck

Me

Hey JM,

You aren't too harsh. I appreciate the input. Although I'm not sure that you've read through my latest post from yesterday. Things have changed quite a bit in a week.

1. I know I broke down. I don't feel good about it. I did weep the whole night away though, I was able to pull myself together enough to make some jokes through the tears. I try to hold back the tears most times. It just seemed like it was all over with so I broke down.

2. I do mean it that I can be more of a "free spirit". I've already been living it, she just hasn't really seen it because she hasn't been around. It is something that I want for myself and is not a change that I made for her. I will push myself outside of my comfort zone on occasion since I know that will make her happy and very little personal growth happens if you always stay in your comfort zone.

3. Going "dark" was just my first knee jerk reaction to the hurt that her words caused me. I decided that I would just back off a little and be more dim as you suggest. Although if you read my later posts (Wednesday through now), you'll see that I never even got that chance.

4. Good point. I forget to do that sometimes when the words are very hurtful that are coming from her. I've had multiple opportunities to listen and validate since that night and I think that I've performed superbly since.

5. Actually, she's telling him tonight that she can't be around him anymore. He's been out of town and she thinks he's coming back today, so she's planning on breaking it off when he calls.

Also, you're right in that I need to be more upbeat and happy when I'm around her. I pulled that off this weekend and will continue too from now on...

Thanks for your thoughts.

Peace,
B

Wow bhopeful,

I just did catch up. How did I get so early in your thread. I thought I clicked for the latest. Well, congrats. Was that the real deal? She wants to move back? Whatever you did to change her mind, keep doing that.

Obviously if she continues to actually pursue returning to the relationship, you shouldn't go dark.

You should address the things you started to address and keep the changes going. Maybe even start out with an adventure if you can afford a short one.

I'm happy for you. Some things to remember if things keep working towards her coming back: It isn't always easy. It starts off like a honeymoon, but then the honeymoon ends and you are left with insecurities, etc, and she is left with her own baggage. Counseling, when both parties are interested, does help. You'll worry about her leaving again. You've survived it once and can again. Neediness on your part won't really make you appear more attractive. She'll need to be fairly transparent to you, but don't smother her. Still let her breath since she's been independent.

Good luck to you. And congrats.

Me

You probably did get the latest thread. This has all happened within a weeks time. It sure seems like the real deal to me.

We are planning a short adventure in a couple weeks. Just started talking about it last night actually. It should be fun. At least I'm going to do my best to make it so.

Thanks for the encouragement and advice. I really appreciate it.

B

B,

I'm not going to give up. Especially with what you have had happen. Thanks for sharing the story. I did seriously need it today

Bhopeful,

I was thinking about your situation and SUCCESS when I was bicycling today and I was reflecting on your Im's with your wife and thought... wow, B hopeful is SO good at validating!! How did you learn how to do that?? Can you give us some pointers? Or point us to pointers you found??

Hooray for your reconciliation!!!

TRANSFORMER

B....I couldn't be happier for you!
This is such wonderful news.

This was in my wedding vows...go figure.

You just keep doing what you're doing!!
J~