Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums Midlife Crisis sgctxok....I'm listening.....

You know that is the ONE word that I chose not to use in my post.

Manipulative.

But I agree.

That is not to say she is AWARE though.

It's fear based and she is not aware that that's where she's coming from.
But I do think it is.

And it is her cross to bear.

I've said all this before to FIB, the only time she cannot function is when it comes to her H and her kids. Then she explodes in anger or rolls up into a fetal position or calls FIB pleading for him to come home fast.

What is the solution? D? S? counseling? drugs? Stay in the M for the 'kids sake'? FIB has worked thru all those options and gave his W plenty chances to get help and be helped. How much more is he expected to give?

Am I saying for FIB to get the D? nope, I am not. My personal opinion is that even though it's been about 2 years of hell it's not enough time for Mrs FIB to work thru the millions of issues she obviously has.
Remember when all we talked about was her eating disorder? that hasn't been brought up for how long now? is it still ongoing?
Remember when all we talked about was her neglect of the kids to leave in poop and urine and unbathed? that hasn't been brought up for how long now? is it still ongoing?
Remember when we all learned of each of the 3 affairs? that seems to be the final straw. How many of us want to be the standing spouse thru 3 affairs? is it right to do that? When is enough enough?
That's got to be a choice that only FIB can make. A solution based choice that considers what is the best solution for the family.
FIB, do you want to start again with a beginners mind? is it in you to try again?

Sorry if I'm slapping again FIB, it's not my intent to cause you pain.

I don't get this.


What are those who ask this question wanting FIB to do?


It sounds to me like this question is asking him literally to START ALL OVER?!! For REAL??!!


Ignore what has come before? Just let it go? Pretend that she just NOW vacated the marriage and try to win her back?


I wonder, I really and truly wonder, if anyone who asks this question (if I've interpreted it correctly) has honestly stopped and considered JUST WHAT they are asking FIB to do. And I wonder if, were they walking in his shoes, if THEY could do that.


Honestly, maybe I'm just dense, but I do NOT get this question.


Blessings,

Bill

Bworl,


This was the beginning of this thread.
For FIB to answer the question. If FIB loves his W but is done then he is done and the posters offer support and commiserate. If FIB loves his W but has guts left to give more (at the chance of more suffering!) then the posts here should reflect how to help.

My shoes might not be the same size as FIB or many here but they've been on my feet for many years while I DO this. I might not do it well, but I DO it.

FIB and his W have had co-dependent "control" issues for many years. You can read about them if you go back to FIB's early posts here. So she wants to hang on to the M now b/c FIB is serious about leaving and she is losing her control. She is scared - someone cornered. Thus I agree with Bill that these are calculated responses on her part. She is reacting to the possible LOSS of the M and that security, not that she wants to REMAIN married to FIB.

And remember that these were the SAME responses she did when caught in her affairs. The exact same responses. Words to pull FIB back under her control; words not followed by commitment once her control and security returned.

I think we are all forgetting that FIB's W is the WAS and FIB the LBS. She was the one who wanted the D. She is the one who went to the lawyer first. She was in control then. Now she is not.

Financially? FIB may be a doctor but being a doctor does not make you a millionare. She will suffer financially.

And finally I want to chime in about divorce vice separation. What did my divorce change? In my interaction with xW not much yet. But it did change this for me: I am free to do what I want without fear that it may be twisted against me in court. I am free to date other people. If you are separated then the M vows apply (at least to me), now they do not. I am free to finally move on with my life.

No, I hate D too. But there comes a time when it may be forced upon us without choice b/c we cannot control the situation or the other person and b/c it is not healthy to remain in pain in a hopeless situation while doing nothing about it. Michelle discusses this in DR. Trick is to know when enough is enough, that you tried everything.

Looking back on my separation, initially it was a good thing b/c I was trying to save my M. And if FIB's W would move then that may be a good thing to put some distance between them.

But in my case, after much time trying my best but with no results I should have cut bait sooner, much sooner.

I think that is what FIB is doing - trying his best to do what is best for him and his family.

And thats wonderful.

Again, I have read most of his threads, not all. But it seems to have taken a wicked twist and she's changing so drastically I was just trying to understand and help with understanding if possble.

Jeanette

WCW,




I never meant to suggest in any way that anyone on this board does not DB. I thought that would be understandable.


My point was to ask whether anyone else on this site has been through all the crap FIB has, AND finally reached a point of being done and filing for divorce, AND THEN had members of this board come to them and ask them questions like "are you ready to begin again."


I've read your posts since I've been here WCW. I know you've done the work and I respect what you've done and how you've tried to do it. Never meant to imply otherwise. I do feel that for some reason or another FIB has been singled out on the fact that he has filed for divorce.


Instead of support, we have moderators suggesting that "if he's sooooooooo tired, then fine", otherwise "I'll support you if you want to start over again."


Personally, this whole place is getting a bit weird. I'm starting to feel the political correctness police starting to rear it's head. Not sure how much longer it's going to be ok to have reached the point where you're done with your crazy spouse.


Maybe that's how they want it to be here.


I kind of liked it when we could all be who we are and help our friends here with our HONEST opinion, and not just have to spout the company line. But I digress...


Anyhow WCW, hope I cleared that up.


Sorry.


Blessings,

Bill

FIB. You know my position - "Don't give up five minutes before the miracle." Just so everyone is clear on my agenda.

When I read your thread, doc - I don't read what others characterize. That being someone who is done. Ready to throw in the towel. Wanting to move on. Broken. If we all "Start with a Beginners Mind", as Jeanette says and DR suggests, and we read what you are posting, and set our own bias aside, I believe we come to the same conclusion.

You are NOT done. You would still move a mountain to reconcile and that alone is reason to not stop exploring options and alternatives.

When I read your posts, FIB, I still read words to indicate you are still reaching out for a lifeline, a new idea, a different course ... anything to give you reason to keep fighting. That's why it's tough to read your thread sometimes. Because I hear a good man still wanting to fight. Even though you are bruised and at a level of exhaustion that most of us can't imagine. And you are not served by generalized "don't give up" advice - nor are you served by some who get in your ear and pull you in the opposite direction.

If you are truly done - then you don't need to read on. But, I don't believe you're really done, FIB.

Let me try a real solution. One based on DB's premise.

You set the bar pretty high (I understand, boundries) - but can you take it one step further for yourself and for us? What does W have to do this week; In the next 2 weeks; In the next month to cause you to believe she is sincere? Follow me ....

We both run our own businesses, FIB - and when we need to implement a change - say in staff performance, we set a goal, come up with a few strategies, some specific tactics, and some "benchmarks" (when I get to here, then my next step is ...) and, of course, a good salesman always asks for the order/sale.

Would you post for us what those benchmarks would be? To wit:
I will do this .... and by (date), I expect W will do this ....
Once you get them down on paper, then obviously, you explain to W exactly what those benchmarks are and ask for the sale.

I was thinking ... 30 of them. To coincide the mandatory 30 for the D paperwork.

I can guarantee you this, W isn't going to drop to her knees one afternoon and beg you to stop the D, change everything to completely fulfill your every need, become the great mother she was and sacrificially put her needs aside. That's a fairytale. (Could happen, but I don't think so). A more logical progression is individual "benchmarks" culminating into a bigger picture. This is solution based DB'ing. What does W have to do today, next week and next month?

Still praying for you ....

Why don't you come to dinner on the 19th?

Stupidity: Quitters never win, winners never quit, but those who never win AND never quit are idiots. Just so everyone is clear on my agenda.

I too believe that FIB would give anything to save his M. I believe that he is in love with his W. I too believe that FIB is not "done" in the sense of wanting to be in a happy M with his W.

I feel EXACTLY the same way about my M. Even divorced I feel that way still.

But what you and others are missing is that this is NOT IN OUR CONTROL. I did not want the D but I had NO choice b/c my W did not want to do the work to stay M. Only difference between my Ex and FIB's W is that FIB's W is TALKING no D, but her actions don't match those words. Yet.

FIB is done like I am done - we are playing the cards we were delt. We have no choice b/c we cannot control another person.

Using a sales model to establish benchmarks may work in business but a M is about relationships and emotions, not business. Go ahead FIB, post 30 things W must do to "earn her way back", with due dates. Go ahead, post it on the fridge and measure her performance. "Explain" it to her.

Go ahead. Try to control her. Try to change her.

I will come pick your body off the floor.

If FIB's W wants to save the M she must do it - without condition. Without FIB posting benchmarks.

She must be the one who wants to get help if she has mental problems or body chemical imbalance problems or eating disorders or sexual obsession problems. She is the one that must set 30 benchmanrks for HER b/c SHE wants to climb out of her hole for HER, not just to keep the M. She needs to do what Amy suggests: get down on her knees with her face to the floor for a week.

She has to do it b/c only she can do it. When she reads FIB's 30, she has two responses that FIB outlined for us: 1) FIB is a liar, or 2) What have I done?

The ball is in her court.

FIB cannot change her. Impossible. So why are you asking him to try?

BTW - I did not intend to offend anyone with the idiot remark. If you are so inclined go here to get a poster:

Stupidity