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Tell her your house is open to her, and you appreciate her watching the pets. And then tell her you'd also appreciate it if she'd respect your boundary of not having the OM in your home.

As far as the friends, I don't think you can control that, and don't really see the problem with it.

Getting ready for big convo with WAW today. Expect she's either going to ask for D, ask me to pay for apartment, or ask me to leave house. At first I felt fear, but I'm facing that with a PMA and the fear has gone away. I'm in control.

So decided to write a script. For most of what she says, I'm going to just listen. If she asks me a question, I'll say I'm confused or need time to think and then turn it back on her. Then, when the time is right, I'm going to tell her that she can't stay on the fence, she needs to choose. Here's my speech:

"WAW, I'm sorry you feel [whatever she says] because I have a different position. In the moments you've let your emotional wall down, we both recognized that if we re-engaged in a positive manner to move the M forward, it could become stronger than ever. But that will only happen if we don't get mired in the resentment and negativity of the past. Our MC really helped to break up our impasses and if we move forward, he can help us find balance for our needs. But right now I feel like things are jamming up again.

You told me last week that you're still attracted to OM. I've read a lot on ways to make M work and everyone says the same thing - if there is an active A, forget it. The M will be mired in indecision and limbo. This is especially true if its an emotional A because the emotions needed to fix the M are being siphoned away by OM.

So it comes down to choosing. Are you, WAW, willing to sacrifice the chance to save your M and home for OM? You have to choose if we're going to move out of this negative space together. Otherwise, I will move on with enjoying my life and if I haven't heard from you, I will file for D in 3 months."

I know - tons of pressure, backing against the wall, all the DR stuff you aren't supposed to do. But I feel like my sitch requires firmness on my part. The understanding and patience can come after she says yes, I'm willing to work on M. And since she's already said that her attraction to OM is poison and disaster waiting to happen, I think being forced into a choice will be a good thing. Even if she says no, it will make my future detachment that much more powerful because OM can't meet all her needs.

lodo

Lodo,

I agree, it's poop-or-get-off-the-pot time, but I'd make some adjustments in your speech. But before I suggest those, I need to say categorically, that you do NOT leave your house! You've done nothing wrong, and while some of us can disagree about confrontation & exposure techniques, nearly EVERYONE agrees that the betrayed spouse should NEVER leave their house, esp. if there are kids are involved (where the wayward spouse can then make a legal case for "abandonment.") So I seriously hope you will NOT do that.

I also do NOT think you should pay for an apartment, for her to use to carry on her affair. This is enabling, and emasculating, and unless a judge orders you to do so, DO NOT do this.

And if she asks you for a divorce, simply re-state your position of "I do not want a divorce, and I won't file for one just yet, as I don't think we've done everything we can to try to repair our marriage. I'm not a quitter. If YOU want to file, then you of course may do so, and I can't stop you."

Now, just some friendly/constructive suggestions:



Your opening sentence is a "yeah, but" and isn't very validating. It's like praising an employee, or a child, and in the same (or very next) sentence, criticizing them. Better to say "I'm sorry you feel (whatever she says); you're obviously hurting and confused, and I hate to see you this way. I'm really sorry you feel this way." The rest of that opening paragraph is OK, but kinda wordy. I'd personally end it at the ". . . it could become stronger than ever" part.



You're trying to "teach" her. You can't teach an infidel. You can get little "truth darts" in here and there, but you can't TEACH them. I think you should simply say "You told me last week that you're still attracted to, and still in contact with, OM. Since you have unilaterally decided to invite a 3rd person into our marriage, I'm sure you can see how there's no way for us to make any real progress while you're still involved with someone other than your husband."



I wouldn't put a deadline on it for her. I think you should absolutely have one YOURSELF, but to her, I think you should say "please don't think my patience is infinite, because I will not wait forever. I'm losing patience -- and love -- every day that you disrespect me by having an affair, and I can't wait much longer."

Let her know you love her, that you do NOT want a divorce, and that you DO want to work on your marriage. And let her know that that cannot happen when there's a 3rd person involved, let her know your patience is running out, and that she needs to make a decision.

Finally, if you haven't already done so, I think you need 1-3 boundaries that you ask her to respect, and you either reiterate them here or tell her of them here. They are different for each of us, but they should be the two or three things that absolutely kill YOUR self-confidence, and that you feel stand in the way of doing the things necessary to make a better Lodo.

- Choc.

thanks Choc - was hoping I'd hear from you. Time to re-write and practice.

Should mention that I'm NOT leaving house, nor paying for apartment. At one point we entertained the idea of paying for apartment while working through issues, but that was before I knew about A.

lodo

WAW just left. As expected, she had come over to tell me she thought it was time to move on. It wasn't as bad as I thought, though!

Good things:
1. She said she was positive she was ready to move on last Monday, but felt lonelier and lonelier all week - unspoken message was that now she wasn't so sure. Tuesday was when I blew her off.
2. After I pulled off my speech, she said she'd be willing to go back to MC together.
3. We hugged twice, once by my initiation, once by hers. She squeezed me tighter during her hug.
4. She suggested we go out to dinner this week.
5. She hadn't wanted to stay very long but ended up staying for quite awhile and we just chit-chatted.
6. She picked up on my GALing.
7. She misses being in the house and having a place to entertain.
8. She said OM isn't really pursuing her.

Negatives:
1. I told her I needed to know if she was open to working on the marriage. She said she'd go back to MC together and "thought" she was open to the marriage, but said "that isn't a yes." This should be a positive, except for her last remark.
2. She is excited about her work, which includes OM - told me that C remarked "sounds like you see him as a muse." She said she can't see cutting off communication with him. Unfortunately, based on what she's doing, she's right. It will be very difficult for her to cut off communication.
3. She maintained a relaxed but certain distance the entire time.

So, more positives than negatives, but the negatives are big negatives. Best I can do for the immediate future is keep up my DBing and make that light shining back to our marriage as strong as possible!

lodo

Lodo,

You can do what you want, but personally I wouldn't do MC so long as she's still seeing OM. Wayward's are numb to giving, or receiving, emotional needs so long as they're still all fired up with the brain chemical rush of OM/OW.

I see signs that what you are doing is getting to her, indeed. I think you should keep up the distance, and the GAL stuff, and do NOT give in to ANY suggestions of cake-eating. Going out to dinner with her is exactly that! It's an attempt by her to "normalize" the status quo, and gain your acceptance while she waffles and eats from two nice plates of cake.

In fact, I think it's time to ratchet things up some more.

I think you're at a crossroads.

- Choc.

Hi Choc,

Thanks - I definitely hear you, but I think my sitch might be different. She's not really with OM - it's an EA and it sounds like he's started drifting on. They are both in a narrow field in academia, so even if she moved to china she'd continue to encounter him. I know, I know, recipe for disaster - and it may just end in that. But I also realize that I slept with other women before marrying my WAW and she slept with other men. We both ignored those other people when we found something greater in each other. Right now, OM is attractive to her because of work. As she moves on, that is going to change.

I need to think about it. What has been driving her away has been my lack of involvement. She always has been very independent, so doesn't mind being alone. I think if we're going to have a relationship, I need to start a new relationship with her. We need to share something more stable for her to miss. At least at this point. If we rebuild our friendship and she sees that it is something she wants to depend on, yet continues to waffle, then I think keeping my distance would work. But I'm not so sure it's working quite the way it should right now. I think we're too emotionally distant for it to work. As far as MC, it was the only thing she was open to. I feel like I need to keep the communication lines open long enough to start something new.

I don't know. I need to think. One thing I'm realizing is that my old feelings for her are dead. This isn't about me trying to recapture something anymore. It's me becoming happier in my life and wanting to pursue a beautiful woman.

thanks for your insight and challenging me, lodo

Lodo,

An Emotional Affair is still an AFFAIR, and in many ways (especially with a woman), it's worse.

Your wife is not going to stop waffling before you do. You're right -- you DO need to think about what you want. Because until you know what it is, you can't possibly set out on the hard road of trying to bring it about.

- Choc.

Thanks for the 2x4 choc. lodo

Sorry, dude. I try to provide what I perceive to be missing. If you were being too hard-azz, I'd be suggesting a Vermont Teddy Bear.

Seriously, how much do you know about emotional affairs? Have you -- or your wife -- read the book "Not Just Friends"? As men, we are especially succeptible to the misconception of "Hey, it's 'only' an emotional affair." When a woman gives of herself emotionally, the affair is much harder to break than a "mere" sexual relationship, even an ongoing one.

- Choc.