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Sorry to hijack, MM, but I had to chime in on this.

PF

Heck, I sometimes went years without bringing anything up about the topic whatsoever. Wow was that ever effective.


PF, I concur. Bottom line - for a HD/LD sitch to improve, both parties likely need to work on it. But the ball is way more completely in the LD party's court for the reason you mentioned.

I think that is one of the weaknesses of a DB approach. While R talks are usually inneffective and create their own resentments, not saying anything just bottles it up more inside of me and expects the other spouse to be a mind reader. It is a real conundrum. I think for the approach, there has to be communication, but it has to be a more detached approach, but I haven't yet figured out that fine line.

PF

LS My advice? (not that you asked for it) Find out what she likes. Start outside of sex and then several weeks later try a bath together or a massage. Stop there.
LS, I and other men have tried that. The stop there is all that happens 90%/99% of the time. The LDW doesn't pick up the rope and do something she is/could be in charge of.

Several couples here did some exercises from a book Peace Between the Sheets such as laying in bed together nude and making out instead of having sex, to show the W that the H wanted to be with his W, even when it didn't end in having sex.

I can rub my W's feet, but what that does is put her to sleep. I get a "thanks" the next day but nothing physical like touching, kisses, or sex.

I have empathy for you and almost all LD women but I see the LDW thing as a bottomless pit most of the time. There seems to be so much in the way of what a LDW needs, I don't think a regular working man like me can fill up the W's needs to even see the bottom of her need's pit.

I can do some things to help her feel better, more connected, but I think she has so much influence and I have so little influence, sometimes I think 3 men meeting her needs/wishes/wants might do the job.

Right now I am in withdraw mode to keep from getting sucked back into being a warehouse to supply my W's many wants and wishes.

I still do the needs things while I look for some way to either be happier in my own corner of life, or find some crumbs we can get our R moving in a better direction.

I started my post in reply to your ...there are nights I yearn to be touched...to be held. I don't always tell my H because I'm afraid of starting something I can't finish. because I think the same thing happens in my house.

Many times I touch my LDW and I know she likes it, except for when something on her list isn't right, which can be often at times. At other times she doesn't have a list of reasons why she doesn't want to be touched, but i have a difficult time knowing when the list is there or not there.

I have gotten to go by "If in doubt, don't, or don't do it for very long."

If she wants to keep the M and you, she'll respond to the attention.
Some W's do. Some don't respond till the H is out the door and tells his W he is seeking a D.

countless Ds have tried the nice route only to fail. It wasn't till the D idea was seriously invoked, that the W or sometimes the H started to pay attention. Just read the "Walk Away Wives" forum.

Most people on this forum are trying to make their M better w/o going to drastic measures.


I wish I was wired so I could just do something for him, but I'm not. I need to feel that bond.
If you wait till you feel it might be another 5/10 years.

Sometimes doing out of kindness and with a good will is what needs to be happening, not only on your part, but also on your H's part. Sometimes you have to ask your H to give something that is valuable to you. It might not seem valuable or important to your H, but you need to let him know what that something is, and ask for it.

I'm afraid of starting something I can't finish. I wish I was wired so I could just do something for him, but I'm not. I need to feel that bond.
Yes, I want to know what you are thinking. Explain this in more detail.

Lou

I'm afraid of starting something I can't finish. I wish I was wired so I could just do something for him, but I'm not. I need to feel that bond.

I felt like this too. I was talking about this last year on a thread with Cobra, in fact.

I always felt I had a very tenuous grasp on my desire. It felt fleeting. I might be feeling it and flirt with cac earlier in the evening and then by bedtime it (my desire) had evaporated and there he was expecting by my earlier actions that we were going to have sex. And now I either had to let him down or try to make myself feel desire. And that made me feel anxious and that did nothing for my desire. I guess rather than owning my sexuality/desire, it owned me, keeping me hostage.

I can't say for sure how things changed because I still don't quite get it myself. Maybe I just stopped thinking of myself as a hopeless LD woman and started seeing myself as more sexual. I started feeling more sexy. I also had the good fortune of taking off the rest of the baby weight right around this time. Something shifted in me and I started feeling differently. I realized that I was in charge of my sexuality and I had to nurture it. cac could tell me 7 days a week how sexy I was and it didn't matter if I didn't think I was. Maybe I even thought I was to him, but I just didn't *feel* it. I didn't own it. Now, after 22 years, an extra 20 lbs, wrinkles, post-baby body and all, I feel sexier than I did was 20. I sure had the goods then but I didn't own them. I didn't even know what to do with them.

Okay - I'm listening to you guys and I'm trying to learn.

PF - it is not fun being the one with the power and control. I don't want it!!! I honestly want my H to take some of it back. We are going to try taking turns intiating. I gave him first whack almost a week ago and he hasn't taken me up on it yet. Why? Now I'm starting to get tense about the whole thing, so I'm going to try and talk to him soon to try and see what's going on in his head. Part of what makes me feel desire is feeling DESIRED - and if he never initiates then I don't.

Lou - "I'm afraid of starting something I can't finish. I wish I was wired so I could just do something for him, but I'm not. I need to feel that bond.
Yes, I want to know what you are thinking. Explain this in more detail."

This will be good for me as I feel tense from your question! I feel that I am always under a microscope and being examined as to what is wrong with me. So...here it goes.

Without a connection/bond - a spark, a feeling of intimacy, closeness - the idea of giving even a bj or hj is very, very difficult. I have to force myself. I think part of the problem is the years of frustration and resentment that have piled up about feeling misunderstood and a failure. I'll tell you the other problem - if I do these things then he wants to touch me...and if I'm not feeling the bond then I do not want to be touched. So in order to avoid touch I don't want, I don't touch him.

I am a very private, shy person. I came here to try and find ways past my inhibitions and aversions that have evolved through years of failure and verbal scars. My H is not a bad person. I would tell you that most of the time he is a tremendous person.

I think this is all helping me. I never really voiced why I couldn't do these things before. I wonder if it would help to ask him not to touch me if I want to do something for him? Or would that feel like a rejection or something worse to him?

I have great stress, but I think there is always stress in this day and age. I think we need to find ways to help each other get through it.

LS,

IMO, your husband is probably not trusting that you really aren't going to reject him yet again. I have had my wife tell me the same thing and soon we have my as Charlie Brown going up to kick the football, only to have it pulled away yet again. I think you need to forget for now about him initiating and you need to go for it. Or, you could tell him something along the lines of "I know you think I will say no like I used to always do, but I will show you I won't" and proceed to give him a bj. You have a huge wall of resentment to tear down and a wall of trust to build up and you have the power to do it (even if you don't want it, you own it).

PF

Dont you think that your husband also wants to "feel desired"?
When you reject him for sex, then he doesnt feel desired... so he doesnt initiate.
It's a nasty feedback loop.

One of you has to make a choice based on thinking, rather than feelings, and choose to break the loop.

Since you're here, and he isnt... odds are, it's not going to be him.

Without a connection/bond - a spark, a feeling of intimacy, closeness - the idea of giving even a bj or hj is very, very difficult. I have to force myself. I think part of the problem is the years of frustration and resentment that have piled up about feeling misunderstood and a failure.

I felt that too. I didn't feel that I could be sexual at all if I wasn't feeling that connection. But that was when I viewed sex as mostly something for him, something that he wanted. I'm not even sure why I saw it that way because I did enjoy it. And I was fortunate that cac was always very attentive to me during sex. But still, I thought I needed that connection FIRST. Maybe it was because deep down I just didn't think it was OK to be sexual.

LS, reading posts by the "HD" women here helped me see that not only is it OK to be sexual, it's healthy, and it's the way we are *supposed* to be, men AND women. Reading the posts of the men whose wives don't want sex remind me what I don't want to be. We are born sexual beings. Unfortunately many of us are programmed to believe we are not or should not be. I don't believe that women or men are born LD, I believe that we are *made* LD.

I really understand what you're saying, because I've been there. Keep posting, keep reading, keep talking to your H. Don't tolerate his abusive behavior (leave the room if he starts in -- Lil, what was that great line you came up with last year when we were discussing this?)

Also, have you considered individual counseling? You have so much going on with the illnesses in your family and your marriage troubles that it might help to talk to someone. It has really helped me sort out my issues.

mrscac - In that last few months I've read a couple of books that pointed out that I was entitled to a good sex life. That I should enjoy it. Your situation gives me some hope.

I've tried personal counseling, twice, and both times they insisted they had to talk to my H. I'm done with counseling. It has not helped us. It is more helpful for me to be in a community like this and hear from people like you! He has signed up for the anger management. Maybe that will help. I'm glad he's willing to go. I just hope he listens.

I will read the HD posts too. I want to be that way. I want to lose inhibitions and resentments.

We can still laugh together - sometimes. I can watch him with my DD and feel love and admiration about how wonderful he can be with her.

He has said some horrible things to me. Early in the marriage and the pregnancy, he was calling old girlfriends. He never saw them, but it was like he needed the lifeline. I don't think he does that now. I know there isn't anyone else. There isn't time.

I think that even people that haven't dealt with the stress and abuse issues that I've dealt with experience LD and aversions form time to time. I want to believe there is a way through this. And that is why I'm seeking light at the end of the tunnel.