Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums Piecing Our Marriage Back Together Again Hopefully, I've finally found my forum

I got laughed off a couple of other MLC forums because H and I are "reconciling while separated". Also I ticked off some of the regulars by supporting some LBS 'inappropriately, giving rise to false hope'. Finally I realize there is a profound philosophical difference between DB techniques and common sense...

So, happy to be here. When I finally got around to reading Michele's book I realize I've been doing DB all along without realizing that's what it was.

We have a reconciliation agreement which specifies sexual faithfulness, 3 scheduled encounters per week, shared vacations and various other clauses, but does not include a committment to M. H is leery of M, seeing himself these days as a natural bachelor. But he still worked hard to come to an agreement which allowed him an ongoing relationship with me.

Brief timeline:

-- H 60, me 63. 2nd marriage for me. M 17 yrs, Together 20 yrs. No children.

-- my first M of 20 yrs. ended in traumatic, messy D. I now recognize, didn't then, that H1 was having MLC. H1 married his affair partner.

-- H2 marriage 5 yrs later, very satisfying M for me, and I thought for him. Unconflicted.

-- about 1 yr. ago I began picking up confusing signals suggesting EMA. I followed these for 3 months, then asked H about his committment to me. I knew enough not to ask about OW/EMA. I had learned from H1/M1 "they always lie".

-- H tells me "I don't like to plan that far ahead" (!) Blows off my questions about problematic intercepted emails. Two or three convos along this line, then I ask H to leave, seeing history repeating itself. H leaves very easily, within the hour, confirming my suspicions of OW.

-- I go NC immediately. I obtain a legal separation agreement with settlement of joint marital assets 5 weeks after Separation Day. Shortly after this, H gives me his 'confession'. He had workplace EMA lasting one year, over for one year by the time I started picking up.

-- At about this time I start picking up on POW/incipient 2nd EMA. I manage to run her off with 2 polite emails. It wasn't that hard. I knew she was LBS, now D, related to EMA.

-- I don't know WTF is going on with H, I start reading and researching like crazy. H himself tips me off that he thinks he's having 'late MLC'.

-- H and I spend about 2 months hammering out the reconciliation agreement. I refuse to meet with him until the agreement is in place. NC during this time except for emails and very occasional phone calls, all related to working on the agreement.

-- late August '07, reconciliation begins according to schedule. One phone call per week is given for EMA diclosure questions, this is done in about 6 weeks, questions about EMA don't come up anymore.

-- by October '07, H has voluntarily increased weekly contact and held to that increase. We take a week's vacation, all goes well. We start a new activity, ballroom dancing, initiated by H.

-- we spend Thanksgiving, X-mas, NY holidays together, steadily becoming more comfortable with one another, getting along well, enjoying each other as we always did. But I'm in no hurry to have him home, and he's in no hurry to be home -- he refers to his comfortable studio garden apartment as 'home' (which used to hurt me and no longer does)

I'm seeing problems in us attempting to live together now, but it is my hope that eventually we will live together again. Also, not to suggest this is not tough emotionally for me. I've had a few melt-downs related to EMA triggers, and quite a bit of roller-coastering. But still, it's so much better than what it was at beginning of Separation! And slow, steady progression in reconciliation.

-- Yesterday and today, the biggie. We agreed to attend a Retrouvaille weekend. I was the one who initiated the process -- very apprehensively! I don't want to scare off this 'natural bachelor', right?! H had some mild initial reservations but then agreed.

Today I spoke with the Retrouvaille co-ordinator. She had the standard questions for me that everyone who applies for the weekend program is asked before registration is confirmed. She had already called H last evening, he emailed me about it this morning early. "Are you interested in working on your marriage?" I gasped. "Did you ask H that?? And what in the world did he say?" "He said, yes" Also, remarkably, "He seemed quite enthusiastic about the program". I told her that I was the one more wanting to preserve the M than H, she didn't bat an eye. It's always that way before they get there, always one who wants to work on M and one who is leery. But the weekend program changes that in 85% of cases. She loves her work, she feel like she's assisting in miracles.

I have to keep reminding myself that there's always that problematic 15%. After all, H1 married his affair partner, only supposed to be a 10% chance of that. But still and all, it's an adventure, and what kinds of adventures can people my age expect -- wish me luck, DBers.

Good luck to you. I am dealing with a multiple affair spouse with sex addiction and most of the people here have been very kind and gentle with me. They've listened to me and helped me tremendously.

Regards,

ntl

Thank you for your good wishes, ntl. It's interesting that you bring up the issue of sex addiction. When this first started, it was SA that I settled on as explanation. Not only the EMA followed quickly by another attempted affair, but also I found some porn websites on the computer after H left. I talked him into attending SA 12-step meeting, and he actually did that. I remember how pleased I was when he did that, it seemed that there might be some hope for the marriage, and I was pleased that he was responding to me.

He did undertake the 12-step program in good faith, went to meetings, had a sponsor, counseled other men there, took their calls etc. H is a very tender-hearted fellow, easy to talk to, he used to volunteer on a suicide hot-line. I think he was very popular in the SA group. But also, it became apparent to him after awhile -- and to me -- that he really wasn't SA. He didn't have the triggers, he didn't have the history. His sponsor finally told him: "You were just another married man looking for something on the side." And like many long term relationships -- as I came to find out, this has been quite an education -- ours had been SSM for the last few years. I'm really thinking that had quite a bit to do with the A.

Wow. That's a perspective I haven't read about yet! And I appreciate you sharing it with me. I often wonder about how deep his addiction/compulsion is. He is definitely on the lighter end of the spectrum compared to most of the men in his group (though he doesn't go in to specifics with me).

I have mentioned in previous threads that our sex life was practically nil since we got married. I am sure that had a large part to play. At one point, early after I found out about the affairs (specifically the one in Dec. 06), I asked him why he did it...what was he looking for? He looked at me with shame and fear in his eyes and said one of the most truthful things I think he'd said in a while: "I just wanted to get laid."

I almost had to crack a smile at that one.

Regards,

ntl

quote:
I asked him why he did it...what was he looking for? He looked at me with shame and fear in his eyes and said one of the most truthful things I think he'd said in a while: "I just wanted to get laid."


This is an interesting line of thought for me, ntl. Thank you for your input. The one thing that appears to me to be a huge obstacle to the repair of my marriage -- many other LBS have written about this, as has Shirley Glass in "Not Just Friends" -- is persistent H guilt over EMA. H holds himself entirely responsible for EMA, sees affair partner as virtuous, feels he needs to somehow assuage OW hurt. In the beginning I actually went along with this -- I knew OW, I accepted H story about how it was all him, how he had to talk her into EMA. Later, thanks in part to hearing the stories of other LBS, I of course changed my mind about that. But H didn't. It took him a long time to break off contact with OW -- she had moved on to another man (as, I've found out, OW eventually do when they get tired of waiting for WS to leave the marriage) -- but H felt compelled to stay in email & phone contact with her: "I want to make sure she's happy" was his explanation. He did finally give that up a few weeks into reconciliation when I made it clear how distressing this was for me.

After reading a lot of other LBS accounts of EMA, I did finally come to a glimmering of understanding about the H guilty/OW virtuous script. I found out it's a common script. I'm beginning to think it really was sex, pure and simple, that led to EMA. H wanted sex/OW sexually & emotionally needy. H hits on a longtime friend & co-worker for sex. There's a lot there for H to feel guilty about when you come to think on it (that doesn't diminish whorish qualities of OW, but that's another story, not so much part of ours anymore if she's out of the picture)

We learn so much from one another's stories.

So, reporting on the progression of the appleroad/H reconciliation -- it's going well, steadily forward. I visited H yesterday/overnight/this morning for our regular Wednesday get-together. I brought him some print-outs of various Retrouville information culled from the 'net. One item was a print-out from a DBer, Sara, posting on Cat03's current thread -- it contained a typical Retrouville Question, "What do like most about yourself, what do you like most about your partner?". H glommed right onto that! He gave me a piece of paper and said let's get started. So we did that, and it led to such sharing! Talk about getting a glimpse of what's behind the Mask! H feeling quite comfortable about going to Retrouville for the Feb. 8/9/10 weekend.

Thank you, Sara. Isn't it amazing where sharing our stories leads to!

I'm beginning to be fully aware of how DB techniques really do work. The idea of working to notice and enlarge the positives in the relationship and declining to follow-up on the negatives.

H and I had our regular Friday/overnight/Saturday get-together. On Friday I had a pretty significant & longlasting anger melt-down in response to an EMA issue which I had raised -- there was a trigger which raised the issue and H encouraged the discussion of the issue. This is something new for H, something which has come about only in our new post-marriage relationship -- he has gone from being conflict-avoidant to seeming to get some kind of satisfaction out of being able to deal with conflict in relationship with me, as if he's learned a new skill.

So the thing was settled, eventually, early on Friday evening and we went on to have a nice visit, he left Saturday at noon, kiss good-bye etc. All happy. But by the end of the day, very late evening after my 3-11 work shift, I was re-interpreting the whole thing in a very negative light, feeling very pessimistic about H and about continued reconciliation of the relationship, was this really what I wanted? etc.

This morning H emails me a brief thank you note (he is at work) which I interpret as perfunctory and my nose is still out of joint and I'm still pessimistic over what I see as a bunch of heavy-duty unresolved issues around his attitude towards the marriage, the EMA, the xOW. So after 3 hours I answer his email -- I don't feel like even answering it, but from the beginning I've taken the policy of never letting any contact from H go unacknowledged even when it's been very difficult for me. I end up sending him back a brief note in which I thank him for dealing with my anger, for being able to bear it, for having courage, for waiting for the storm to pass, for acting in a loving way without reservation afterwards, for being my friend. I also said that I was not sorry I had raised the issue, because it was important to me and had to be discussed, but I was sorry for reacting in an angry & alienating way during the discussion.

About 5 minutes after sending the email I was aware of feeling happy, in a kind of quiet and peaceable way. Nothing had changed physically but it was as if as if the blank spaces in the house and in my life had been suffused with grace, and everything seemed to sparkle.

Yes. You are a natural for Retrouvaille. You see how it makes you feel better to express your feelings? Your email was perfect. We learn to always start with saying something nice. Acknowledging a nice thing the spouse did, or something like that. Then we talk about a feeling, never about the other person, or even an opinion. But you will get to Retrouvaille, and you will do it, and you will love it. It was such a wonderful experience for us! And don't think we walked in that door getting along! We were vicious to each other. But it was a turning point. They gave us the tools to help us deal with our problems.

BTW, my husband is about the same age as yours, and this was his MLC. Or his last-ditch attempt to fix his life before death loomed in the distance. I don't really blame him. Our relationship was very prickly. It's a shame on the one hand that we needed to be taught how to be nice to each other. On the other hand, when I look around at other couples, it's good that we learned it. So we wasted a lot of our years together. But from here on out we can do it better and enjoy each other.

I am so happy to hear that you will be going to Retrouvaille. It is a wonderful experience. You will never regret the 2 days you spend there. Do the post sessions too. There is a lot more.

Sara, thank you so much for your response and encouragement, it means a lot to me. I looked at some of your posts and got the idea that you & H are now one of the 'presenting couples' at Retrouville? What an amazing spiritual journey marriage is! Truly.

I'm also interested that your H is about the same age as mine. At first, I looked on the concept of MLC very skeptically, I only looked at it at all because H told me that's what he thought was happening to him. My reaction was: "Right. A midlife crisis. He thinks he's going to live to be 120 years old?" The only reason I do accept it now is because he knew all the MLC phrases/sentences/code-words (do they all read the same text-book?) And also, I found out during the deep emotional sharing conversation we had recently in response to your contributed Retrouville Question that H has been a slow developer all his life, late at going into adolescence, now late at going into midlife transition. It took him a long time to grow up, he missed most of the marks of ordinary adult development. It took him longer than the average to date, to settle on a career, to get his first job, to marry.

I knew all of these things before, but I didn't put them into any kind of framework, I didn't think they were related. And he always did seem pretty grown-up to me. A responsible, hard-working person who always looked after me very well, emotionally, in the marriage. But it is interesting to reflect on one of my earliest impressions of H, very early on in our courtship at about the point where I began to think I might have an abiding interest in the relationship -- he had come into the diner for our lunch date, I had already arrived and watched him as he perused the chalkboard menu. He kind of danced gracefully in place, moving excitedly from one foot to another as he considered his choice, reminding me of a charming little boy looking forward to his favorite meal.

Oh, BTW, a lovely response from H to my email of yesterday! I think I'm still on an emotional roller-coaster though, even though our reconciliation going so well. Last evening late a repeat of pessimism about H character and about R generally. Oh well, thank heaven for this forum and that we have some company while we go through this!

Appleroad,

No, we volunteer to help greet people when they come to the weekends and will be working on the local Retrouvaille website, but so far, my husband and I are not presenters. Maybe at some point we will do that, but not yet.

I remember the mood swings that you talk about when H and I were first reconciling. We attended the Retrouvaille weekend last January and did the weekly Post sessions through February and March. But in June I was still dealing with insecurity, bad dreams, bouts of depression and overall malaise. That's when I found this website. I will give you the link to my first thread. It was a short one, because through it I met Saffie, who was going through the same feelings at the same time. So I will give you the link to my short thread, and then Saffie's longer thread in which we talked about our feelings while reconciling. Those threads helped me very much at the time. I hope they help you too.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1103146

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1101874

Sara, thank you again! So generous of you to share your story, and so perceptive of you to pinpoint my present emotional malaise. Yes, I think that's what it is, a letting down of long-suppressed feelings once the danger seems like it might be past and relationship begins to get back on track.

H and I had a nice conversation last evening, our regular scheduled Monday 5:30pm phone call. H very upbeat, assiduously staying away from the heavy-duty emotional stuff related to my Friday meltdown, as if his email of Monday morning put that definitively into the past and we were going steadily forward. And I was happy to follow his lead!

I stay away from OR talk -- EMA disclosure questions are a different thing as far as I'm concerned, and also need to be scheduled and agreed to ahead of time -- but H actually volunteered something along that line, for the first time since the marriage blew up. He said our new relationship is reciprocal, that he looks forward to seeing me as I look forward to seeing him. He also said that our meetings are so much more relaxed and enjoyable now compared to when we first started reconciliation encounters. I wholeheartedly agreed: "Around Thanksgiving I noticed how easy it was to be together, it was like old times, as if none of this had happened, but better, because not so dreary now."

There was a dreariness the last few years of the marriage, a boredom, as if we were in a holding pattern. There was never any conflict in the marriage, we always got along very well, but we were spending more and more time/activities away from one another, not taking part in one another's life that much. H responded to my observation: "It's much better now." We have fun now -- we schedule more fun now!! We are more intentional about the relationship now. It was as if we got a good car back in 1990 and didn't bother doing regular maintenance on it.