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I forgot that - thanks!!!!!! Phew

I'mmmmmm baaaccckkk.

The trip was excellent. We spent lots of time together, but I also spent a lot of time alone, doing my own thing.

Kinda funny...took a scuba diving lesson... I looked up at one point and there was my wife at the edge of the pool, watching. Went down to the beach by myself one morning and rolled into a hammock with a book. A little while later, there she was: "Watcha reading?".

All in all, it was good. We talked quite a bit, and not once about the R. And...this is big...I got two big hugs and a kiss when I gave her a 24th anniversary gift. Oh...and I almost forgot...we went for a walk and she briefly held hands with me. That's big, folks. Doesn't sound like much...but for me, it is.

So, I guess being the eternal optimist, it looks to me like things are slowly improving.

We went to MC yesterday. Very interesting. Our MC is excellent...very savvy, knows exactly what's going on. Lucky me.

I'd like to get you folk's input on some of what went on.

W stated how she saw other couples on vacation kissing, holding, loving, and hugging each other. She mentioned in particular one very elderly couple that absolutely doted on each other, and she said how sad she felt that we weren't like that.

The MC asks her: "So is that your goal?" (I love this woman!) Of course, the MLC W says "I don't know. I just don't know..."

W goes on: "I guess I'm just so hurt from all those years (marriage rewrite), I'm not sure if I have the emotional energy to invest in him again." (MLC BS)

Long pause. Neither the MC nor I say anything.

Then W looks at me, reaches over, rubs my arm, and says: "But I do love him."

I almost fell off the couch. I DID NOT give her an "I love you too" return. I just looked at her and gave her a loving smile.

Now keep in mind, every time she displays some willingness to reconnect, there's always a little backlash. So then she says: "But I think I'm growing as a person, and I'm just not afraid of being alone anymore, if that's what this comes to."

MC looks at me and asks me how I feel about that.

I say: "You know what? I'm glad she's growing as a person. And I'm trying to stay out of her way and patiently support her in her journey. And to be perfectly honest, I'm not afraid of being alone either. I would much prefer that we find a way through this, because I think we would be much happier together, but if that doesn't happen, I know I'll find happiness. Meanwhile, I need to be a friend and be patient and supportive."

MC: "But how do you feel about the lack of sex and intimacy?"

Me: "I miss it a lot, but I want to have sex with someone who wants to have sex with me. She's not up to that right now. And that's OK. I don't need sex to survive. I will still be able to walk, breathe, work, eat, and sleep if I'm not having sex. Right now, she just wants to be friends. But if she ever wants sex, she knows where to find me."

Now...this is absolutely killer. The MC looks at me and says: "You are a strong, patient man. I have counseled hundreds of couples, and most men at this point would have said "F*ck you, I'm outta here!" (exact words)

She continues: "I think you two are going to be just fine. I think you're going through a rough patch, but I don't see anything here that's insurmountable. You're both swimming in a big cauldron of empty nest syndrome, menopause, midlife, career change, death of parents, etc., etc. But I don't see any reason why we can't negotiate this, and my feeling is, you guys will have an even better marriage when we're done."

Wife: "I just don't want to go back to the way it was."

Me: "Neither do I. As far as I'm concerned, that marriage is history, dead, gone. We need to build a new one."

I think we both left feeling pretty good. W was very chatty all night. I'm feeling pretty good today, for a change. I see a light at the end of the tunnel...just hope it's not a train headed my way...

I await the input of you brilliant people.

Bomb

You just made me cry.

I love you MC and I have never met her.

Now you KNOW there are going to be more bad days and days you want to cry - but print this post and keep it somewhere safe so that you can read it in the tough times.

BTW, I sent you an email - I am in school detention today at 3pm!!!! Daughter not at all contrite

I think the trip and the MC appt was wonderful

I see your wife and so scared. Like a child, her words made me want to hug her.

I want to bring up just one thing here.



I know they do re write many things on our marriage. I know that they talk alot of BS when they are in MLC.

I also know that we were not the perfect spouses.

And SOMETIMES we have to listen to what the WAS is saying. They do have some truths about us mixed in there with the BS.

I think that she was vulnerable when she said these things, and you may want to listen a bit closer.

It is easy for us to say, Oh they left us b/c they are in MLC and we were so great.

I am sorry, I have not read your entire situation. You may have realized things already, and are working on them.

Your MC sounds great.

Your wife does need your friendship now, and no pressure.

I am glad you get it, and are being there for her.

Remember to take care of yourself too.

Lissett

Saf, not only is she a great MC, she's covered under my insurance!!!

BTW, you've already impressed me as being a great mother, so you probably know this anyway: sometimes you have to give 'em enough rope to hang themselves. It's the only way they learn.

Case in point: year's ago, my oldest son was caught shoplifting baseball cards at WalMart. I had to meet him at the youth detention center. He was scared and crying like a baby and wanted to go home. The police said I had the option of taking him home, or he could spend the night in the facility and meet the juvenile judge first thing in the morning.

It hurt to do this, but I asked my son if he needed me to bring him any toiletry supplies for his overnite stay. He's now 28 and has turned into quite a fine young man, with a wife and baby. He told me a couple of years ago that he hated me at the time, but it was the best thing I could've done for him.

Lissie, thank you, thank you. I've read your threads and know what you've been through.

You are soooo right. I'm not perfect by a long stretch. In short, I was a lousy listener and tuned my wife out for a long time...to wrapped up in my little world. I've changed...big time, and W knows it.

Bomb

Even better. So was my therapist - and my wonderful French male Osteopath in a kilt turns out to be too!!!!!! Life can be good.

This parenting thing can be so hard sometimes but I agree with everything you say.

When mine were little I used to get so fed up with older mothers who would come up to me in shopping centres and say things like "Cherish them while they are little - if you think they are trouble now just wait until they get older." I used to think they were such misery guts - now I have to zip my mouth to make sure I don't say that to young mothers!!!!!!!LOL

Saf,

Wait a minute.

What's a French guy doing wearing a kilt? Doesn't that violate some law?

Bomb

It may well do but he is too cute for me to report it!!!!!

BOMB, that is terrific!
Wow!
I couldn't be happier for you!

The description of your trip to the BVI's sounds delicious. And you are showing yourself to be very patient and understanding and considerate in marriage counseling.

Good for you!
Good for you!
I'm so glad.

SPM,
Nice to hear from you. Even though things are improving, I'm not getting my hopes up too much. Everyone tells me this is a rollercoaster. I don't know if I'm coming to the end of the ride or approaching a big ol' plummet.

Just read through your thread. Like others have said, sounds to me like she's dragging her feet...making unrealistic demands that she knows you won't accept, etc. I mean, really, she started this, right? Make her do all the work. And I echo what some others have said about moving back into the house. I certainly don't know the dynamics of the R, but I have this funny feeling that she wouldn't move out in response. Anyway, just a thought...

Funny story: I was trimming my beard this morning and the guard slipped on the razor and cut a huge swath. Only solution was to shave the beard completely off. I glanced in the mirror and I looked about 10 years younger. Wife sees me and does a double take. I explained what happened...then:

W: Yeah, right. Likely story. You just have some hot date tonight.
Me: Yep...sure do. She's about 5'5", curvaceous, great rack, pouty lips, big brown eyes, dark curly hair (of course, I'm describing her).
W: Oh yeah?...well don't get any ideas.
Me: Too late.

Har!

Bomb