That isn't not what I have found. A lot of times...
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Sometimes, it really IS to do with sex.
That IS a major insecurity.
you're making generalizations again, where it doesnt fit.
yes, SOMETIMES, it is about insecurity. but not always. I can think of at least two types of situation, probably more, where insecurity has nothing to do with it.
My current status: june 2006. Wife ran out and filed D. Finalized Jan 11, 2010, after 12.5 years M. 3 wonderful sons caught in the middle
Ok guys - here is an absolute keeper of a book "He's Just Not Up for It Anymore", Bob Berkowitz. This book really can help women understand what the possible issues might be with their men. It does have suggestions for change. Here is what it says - 58% of the men who responded to the survey said they watched porn regularly (less than I thought) - Of that group, 72 percent watched 1 to 5 hours per week, 19 percent six to ten hours per week, and 9 percent watched more than 11 hours per week. However, they do not identify pornography as being the primary reason they stopped being sexual with their wives. It might have been the result of marital problems rather than the cause.
The survey was of 4,000 people who self-identified as being in sexless marriages - 33% were men. What were the top few reasons?
She isn't sexually adventurous enough for me 68% She doesn't really seem to enjoy sex 61% I am interested in sex with others, but not with my wife 48% I am angry at her 44% I am bored 41% She is depressed 40% She has gained a significant amount of weight 38% I am depressed 34% I no longer find her physically attractive 32% I suffer from erectile dysfunction 30% I lost interest and I don't know why 28%
They went down from there with only 1% of respondents reporting that they were gay and responses 20-25% having to do with porn, masturbation or affairs.
When the issues were discussed in depth they were very complicated for men. Many seemed to be punishing their wives for various things but underlying that were issues of the self esteem or insecurities of the men, issues with their erections or various other things.
I also purchased MWD's new book and both seem to agree that the tie to masculinity, sex, shame etc... is so complex that it isn't an easy thing to just confront. Getting in a man's face is a sure way to induce his anger and cause passive aggressive type behaviors. In fact in a great number of case in the survey book people ended up just living asexually or getting divorced. There were other cases where people were successful. NO ONE was successful by just throwing in some spicy ideas. Everyone had to talk about sex no matter how uncomfortable.
Karen
PS Dom - porn viewing is about sex without responsibility for someone else. It is not so clean a relationship as to be simply about "liking to look and getting off". Experts disagree as to whether it qualifies as an actual addiction but it seems clear that some guys do use it as a substitute for sexuality in their M and some guys do it to a level that causes them to endanger their work lives or marriages or whatever. Addictive viewing at that level is pretty rare as a "reason" for a sexless M.
I think that the thing that is VERY important to note if you reflect on what we've observed on this BB is that LD folk often don't really know why they have lost their sex drive. However, there is a natural human tendency to come up with a reason and a further natural tendency to come up with the reason that is most readily at hand. Like when you have a stomach-ache you start thinking "Maybe that burger place I went for lunch was dirty" or "Maybe I'm getting appendicitis" etc. etc. For instance my 2bX once actually said that I didn't seem like I really wanted to have sex. Now, given that my "signaling availability" behavior was as in-your-face assertive on occasion as taking off my shirt and playing with my own breasts in front of him and rubbing my clit against his ass in bed, I think there was a bit of eye-of-the-beholder going on. In any case, it still isn't the "job" of the HD spouse to figure out why the LD spouse is LD and/or solve the problem. It makes no difference whether the potential problem is porn, depression, lack of physical attraction etc. etc.
Last edited by MJontheMend; 01/21/0802:48 PM.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
From your list of why men have lost their desire for their wives, one common theme is that the wife is no longer attractive to the man. I personally know a couple where she is the HD and he is LD, and he told her he does not find her attractive. For men whose primary need is physical attractiveness, I can see where many of the items on your list could be "physical attractivness" related. In fact 6 of the 11 excuses are related to physical attractiveness.
From your list of why men have lost their desire for their wives, one common theme is that the wife is no longer attractive to the man. I personally know a couple where she is the HD and he is LD, and he told her he does not find her attractive. For men whose primary need is physical attractiveness, I can see where many of the items on your list could be "physical attractivness" related. In fact 6 of the 11 excuses are related to physical attractiveness.
In fact 6 of the 11 excuses are related to physical attractiveness.
And it is a valid reason up to a point due to male sexual reliance on visual cortex recognition of .7 waist to hip ratios etc etc. As you may recall, lack of physical attraction was my 2bx's "reason" for LD unless I was looking really hot and then it became the fact that I was "too nerdy to f*ck" and maybe I could still stand to lose a few pounds and wear more attractive t-shirts. However, after we split up a great miracle occurred by which I magically became so physically attractive that my 2bx felt compelled to call me on the phone and lewdly proposition me after randomly spotting me in our local grocery store telling me that he thought that I looked a bit TOO hot when he saw me. Also, we can file under the heading of objective evidence the multiple comments from my post-separation swains along the lines of "hot", "soooo sexy", "pretty as a basket of speckled puppies", "lovely", "cute", "you made the old guys drool when they saw you" etc. etc. etc.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
LD folk often don't really know why they have lost their sex drive. However, there is a natural human tendency to come up with a reason and a further natural tendency to come up with the reason that is most readily at hand.
In my experience, there isn't usually a simple reason for being LD. It seems that there are often layers of reasons/causes and the more you peel back the layers the more you realize how complicated it is. Every time I think I have figured it out, I find another layer. Even for those who LD folk who want to get at the bottom of it, it's not a simple process at all.
For some LD men or maybe most, shame is a reason that they are LD, but the very fact that they are LD also makes them ashamed because society tells us that men are supposed to be HD. So they are in a catch-22. I'm sure that shame plays a role in women being LD as well.
And I can't remember if it was on this thread that haphazard mentioned the Fear of Intimacy book, but regardless, it sounds like a very interesting book, and quite a timely topic for me. So, thanks!
I also purchased MWD's new book and both seem to agree that the tie to masculinity, sex, shame etc... is so complex that it isn't an easy thing to just confront. Getting in a man's face is a sure way to induce his anger and cause passive aggressive type behaviors. In fact in a great number of case in the survey book people ended up just living asexually or getting divorced. There were other cases where people were successful. NO ONE was successful by just throwing in some spicy ideas. Everyone had to talk about sex no matter how uncomfortable.
Karen You are spending a lot of time researching books and analyzing Why your H is the way he is, but I think MJ is right, does any of that matter and it that your job to do? I don't think so. Your H has to be the one to "go there." The last sentence you wrote above sums it up. TALK to him. Don't stay in your own head driving yourself nutty.
Yeah - I know. I am in my head for the simple reason that I never see H, am never alone with H when we are both awake and in fact, never have a chance to talk with him about needing the carpet shampooed or the dry cleaning picked up MUCH LESS to talk about our ahem, sex life when we don't even talk, he rarely kisses me and here we are.... He is leaving for yet another business trip tomorrow. My only chances to discuss anything are so inappropriate as to be ludicrous. He made plans for us to go away for a weekend around Valentine's Day (we have to take the baby because he's still nursing). Then what? I can't imagine ruining our time together bringing it up and I can't imagine not bringing it up and I can't imagine having sex after all this time - I actually feel uncomfortable and embarrassed. I would be more comfortable fcuking a stranger at this point. At least with a stranger I would have a fighting chance.
I have found these latest books instructive -not as to what is happening with H but the books and information seem to echo what we have found on this forum. It is very interesting. Don't forget that this also ties in to my profession so I'm not always analyzing H. I take great pains NOT to do so. I don't know "why" - I have some pet theories but it doesn't make them right. Frankly, the why doesn't really matter at all. I was just addressing the porn issue brought up here by another angle. It is rarely as simple as some guys want to think - "I just use porn cause it is good, clean, fun" - sometimes it IS but that is when a guy has a healthy SL going already or is between partners not so much when that is ALL the SL he has going on.
Yeah Cemar - some guys were unhappy with their W's appearance but interestingly those same guys also brought some other stuff to the table - weight gain or depression of their own, ED, complicated family issues etc.... So, was it solely the weight gain???????? When those same guys partners lost weight the frequency of sex did not increase.
