Thanks for the support! I tried to "fix" my H situation tonight. Called him back. Told him that the reason I challenged the car-buying idea was bc I wasn't sure it was the right idea. And that at our last MC (2 weeks ago), H said he is frustrated bc too often in our marriage, I go along w/what he wants so I don't make waves, that I have stopped voicing my opinion over the years and he hates it. So I told him that the "new" me--I had told him recently that I am working on myself--was going to have to be free to voice my opinion if we are going to try to work on anything together. His response, "Fine, but I don't have to agree with your opinion and you can't CRY when I disagree with you." I had started crying earlier bc at one point he said, "If it doesn't work out [us], at least you will have a new car". I told him the "if it doesn't work out" comment upset me bc we are supposedly "trying to fix it", and that I am not projecting our failure at this point. His response, "fine." Naively, I try again as I hang up, "I just didn't want us to end our conversation on a negative tone". His response, "FINE!" [angry]. So I hung up at that point. AAAAGH! Starting to wonder if I should just avoid talking to him at all, we were doing so well the past 3 or 4 days then tonight, he is in total crab mode again. Of course, I am not with him in Denver, maybe he had a rough day. He is worried his company was bought out on Tues. and now he's been out of the office for 3 days. SO his frustration may have nothing to do with me. It is just so frustrating bc he told the counselor he thinks I go along with his decisions all the time to keep the peace instead of being the "real me". But when the "real me" disagrees with him, he becomes this angry, immature guy?? Gee, I wonder why I started just going along with what he wanted in the first place?? Oh well, can't dwell. Maybe tomorrow will be a better day. Anyway thanks for the understanding. Sorry about your sitch. I know how you feel, I would probably invite H to the movie, then if he back-pedaled or declined I would feel like I "screwed up the DB-ing". So hard to work on a relationship when you feel like you are always strategizing??
Must have missed your previous post. I tell you I feel such a kinship to you b/c our husbands sound soooooooooooooo much alike. You and I also seem to have similar ways as well. I would be upset by the car thing. I posted the other day about my H taking out a personal loan (in his name) to pay off our credit card debt. Perthaps not a bad thing in the long run, but again more change. I never voiced to H my true thoughts on why what he did bothered me, but the reality is that everything they do now is internalized and b/c of the sitchs we are left wondering what their real motives are. They could be toally harmless, but the point is we have been on such an emotional roller coaster that it is hard to know weather we are coming or going. Any change or big decsisions makes you wonder why they are being done. They either don't quite know what they are putting us through or they don't care. I am inclined to think that they don't care. I am very much like you when it comes to dealing with my H. I don't voice my true opion because he shuts down. My true fiesty self left early on in the marriage because I knew that everytime I dissagreed with H to avoid conflict he would shut down and to avoid him shutting down I often just let alot of things slide. Part of the problem with that is resentment builds up on both parts. I found myself catering to H many times because I was afraid if I did not he would go into his shell and he was so good about it that it might be days or weeks before things were right again. I just became this passive fool bending over backwards for him. No wonder he probably lost alot of respect for me over the years. This won't happen again. I lived in fear of him shutting down so much he would want to leave and he did. They talk about GAL and it really is important. I have been seperated for 3 months now and I have finally built up a network of friends. I like hanging out and if things work out with H this is not something I will be giving up. It is hard to GAL with kids (I have a little one 2), but try. Money is tight for us so I don't have sitters, but my friends know that many times if we are just going to dinner or to the mall or hanging out at someone's house my sidekick will be right there. H does not have to know I am bringing my S. I get dressed up just the same. He assumes s is going to my mom's. You will start to feel better now that you are working. It is going to hurt in the begining, but you will have work to distract you. I would not get another car now. I would tell H that there is the real possibility of this sepearation ending your marriage. You don't want to take on another expense in case you have to go it alone down the road. Tell him you will consider it in 6mths if you both decide that he is returning home. I stress the part about you both deciding because I think our spouses think that this is all about them right now and to some degree it is, but I don't think they realize that seperation gives everyone time to think. It is quite possible that you may not want him back when he decides to return. I think about this myself. I want H back, but the further along we go the more I feel like I don't trust that I won't be in this situation again. I am willing to take that chance now because it is still fresh, but I might not want to months down the road.
Reading these posts helps me feel that I am not alone. I became the "agreeable wife" because I didn't want to "create conflict". And I gave up myself in the process. When H and I had our first face to face talk after six months of separation, he told me that he saw no need for conflict in a relationship. But how can you NOT have conflict? I mean, it is impossible to naturally agree on everything. We each have our own opinions. How we choose to express those differences is what is important. Being considerate of the other persons viewpoint and treating them with respect seems to be the critical issue, not the fact that there is a difference of opinion.
And you are right, everything seems to be about them. Our feelings have to take a back seat, and to an extent, that bothers me. Yes, we need to give them space. Yes, we have to consider their feelings, even when they don't bother to consider ours. In my sitch, it has always been about him. Sometimes I wonder if that will ever change. And that scares me.
Hi BobbiJo! I spent the morning reading your thread. Your sitch has a lot of parallels to mine: H works w/ OW, plays volleyball w/ her in summer instead of bowling (she is married and her H is supposed to be on the team too), stays out late, wants me to get a new car. I'll talk about that in my thread though. You sound like you are doing great and are really strong. Keep it up.
Thanks, Hope2, MotherMagee, and Lizzy! Here I was feeling bad for myself bc lately it seems I am the only one reading my posts. Then I get three responses--you made my day! Sounds like we are all in pretty similar boats these days. Lizzy, I will have to check out your thread, I have read the others. I agree it is so frustrating to be the "agreeable wife". I DO want to voice my opinion, I miss the outgoing me that I used to be, that my H fell in love with 16 years ago. I can't really pinpoint when I started censoring myself. I know 8 yrs ago we were house-hunting after another of H's job transfers. He liked a house I didn't really like. I knew we would be there only a year or so, so I said I liked it, too. A couple weeks later we found out he was getting transferred again (after 4 months in a hotel) so we never got the house. I confessed that I didn't like the place. He still talks about that, in fact that was the example he gave the MC. But he had it mixed up and said I moved into a house that I didn't like. (We moved 8 times in 8 years so I can see the confusion!) So I guess all I can do is start to be honest with my opinions again. Sometimes it is as trivial as what toppings I want on my pizza or what movie to rent, sometimes it is as important as me going back to work or how we raise our kids. I know it wasn't working for me to silence myself, so I guess I have nothing to lose by having a voice again. The worst that could happen, he leaves for good, but he is already moving out in 2 days so why not take that risk? I know if I keep living on these eggshells I will never be happy with my life, even if I know I want to spend it with H and the kids together. Besides his negative reaction last night is probably bc he hasn't seen me voice my own opinion in so long, I bet it was a shock. He'll get used to it, or he won't. All I can be is me. Keep the faith you guys, I will try to do the same!
GRRRR! H just called from Denver. I almost ignored the phone, I am in the middle of cleaning the basement which I haven't done in months. But we left things crappy last night after the car argument so I was curious what tone he would have. Apparently, a crappy one. H: I am getting the kids shirts. What size should I get D, 2 or 3? D is 20 mos. old. For Christmas we bought her 2T clothes. He KNOWS this. Me: Look at the shirts. Do they run small? H: I.....[phone call drops as I am on cell in basement} I go upstairs, try to call from house phone. Get vmail. H calls back. H: I don't have time for this, I am not at the place yet. I just wanted to know what size. I didn't need you to start a big issue about it. I will figure it out myself. Me: I only asked about the size bc when we went to San Antonio, shirts for S ran small. She wears a 2. But you don't get to call me for help and cop an attitude with me. H: I will just figure it out myself. NEVERMIND. Me: I said, you don't get to be rude to me when I am trying to help. If you are going to call me just to pick a fight like last night, DON'T call me. H: Fine, I won't. I will figure it out. Me: D is a size 2. S is a size 5. If in regular sizes, S is a Small. H: Okay Me: Just trying to help you out. H: Okay...[hangs up]
So I pretty much start to burst into tears when he hangs up. WTF?? He called to ask me about their shirts. He is NOT dumb, we just bought Christmas clothes and HE went shopping with my MIL for our kids. So he KNOWS their sizes!? I don't get why he would call me to pick a fight with me. Makes me want to just never talk to him again. I read something in a book and heard it on the radio recently. It said that when deciding which friends are your real friends/relationships are your valuable ones, ask yourself this question: "After spending time with this person, do I feel better than I did before spending time with them? If yes, keep the relationship. If no, end the relationship." So that would mean end the relationship bc I end up feeling worse 8 times out of 10 these days. But maybe it is just the alien. With my OLD H, I felt BETTER 8 times out of 10....
So the fight you had with your H is not uncommon. In the begining of my seperation I had them all the time. It would be about the smallest things. Mostly they involved little things with my son regarding clothing sizes and haircuts. We progressed to things like bills and money, but they all seemed like very trivial arguments especially given the fact that we were sepererated and theoretically we should not have been arguing. That was the point of seperating so that we no longer had to argue. I have a couple of theories on this. First off, when you react you show that you still care. As they say the opposite of love is not hate, it's ambivalence. When you fight they know they still effect you. Fighting also gives them a reason to justify what they are doing. Your husband sounds so much like mine so let me tell you how your sitch may go down. In the begining he will be on his own for a bit and he will miss you. He might call or come around more, but don't be thrown off. You might think he wants to come back, but as soon as you reciprocate he will run away again. What will most likely make it hard for you is the fact that you have kids. He will use the kids as a way to keep one foot in the door. It's very hard to heal when you are faced with seeing your H daily. I don't know about your H, but mine still kind of comes off as a nice guy ( I don't know how nice I think he is for doing this). He comes by everyday to see his kid, he pays the bills, he takes our S two days a week. It all seems so nice on the surface that you kind of forget about the hell they are putting you through. Your H like mine will go through these periods of being a nice guy. He will show his old self, but as soon as you take the bait he jumps back. You will get tired of this after time. About three months in you will still hurt and still be sad, but it won't be as frequent. The best thing to do is really back off and give him space. Don't give in to the arguments. I honestly think it is going to take him the 6 months to come around, but I do think he will. The one thing I can say about my H is deep down inside he wants to do the right thing. He fuc-ed up along the way, but I think ulitmately he is trying to make things right. I would bet it is the same for you. The trouble I am beginging to have is that I am starting to get really angry. I am starting to feel like his feelings are the only ones that matter. Forget about my happiness or how damaging it may be to my son. My husband being happy seems to be paramount and I am now starting to wonder if I want someone like this. I think what he is doing now is the ultimate act of selfishness. Maybe I am entering the angry stage of grief.
Yeah, I go between the crying, shattered part of grief and the pi$$ed off, "where do you get off" phase of grief. I know these aren't the actual stages, but they are my stages!
Anyway, it would be so much easier if I just didn't have to talk to him for awhile. But he gets back tomorrow and then moves out Monday--I think, but you are right as it is all about him right now and he hasn't officially given me his move-out date, not that I am his landlord--anyway we HAVE to talk soon bc we have to tell our son and have to work out his visiting. We agreed to do a calendar for S and I WILL NOT accept it if he tries to just make some verbal arrangement or some "I'll come a couple days a week" vague statement. I am the mother of his children but not a hired babysitter. He will have the kids often bc I need to GAL, too. Not just him livin' it up bachelor-style at the apartment, going out for beers with the guys 3 or 4 nights a week. He actually has a co-worker who is "Dating" (and sleeping with, and living with some of the time) his ex-wife. I already told H not to get any ideas. He will not divorce me and then just come play with me when he wants some fun. As far as the fighting over stupid things goes, he did that all the time when the OW was in the picture. Right before he would leave the house for work in the morning if he was going out that night, or sometimes even he would call from work in the afternoon. Then find some way to start a fight. So he could hang up mad at me and have a "reason" to do what he was going to do anyway.... Anyway once he moves out if he tries to pick a fight with me, I think I will just tell him to call back when we can have a civil discussion, and leave it at that. I don't want to go off on him bc me being a bee-otch will not help with any kind of R plans. But I won't be walked on either bc that just helps him tell himself he is happier without me. Does this sound like the right approach? Not to drive him away, but not to tolerate his crap or get sucked in? Thanks for the support. I don't know which will be harder, if he calls me picking fights or doesn't call me at all.......
I would NOT tell him to call back when he can have a civil discussion. Actions honey. Stop answering every time he calls. I would not be available every time he wants to do a temperature check.
Please refocus on you and the kids. Get away from the phone for a while and you won't know if he calls or not. You went back to work! You have a schedule. You will me making plans to do things to enrich your life and improve BobbiJo.
You have to do this part. For PMA.
Because this is going to take longer than you want it to.
Because you are driving yourself crazy and focusing too much on what/why he is doing what he's doing.
Because you don't want the relationship you had as that is what got you here...
Make a visitation schedule up and have it ready when he gets back from Denver. If he wants to negotiate, fine. But you don't need to wait for him to discuss it if he isn't forthcoming. Seeing the schedule... the actual time he will be with his kids... that may snap him out of his wishy-washy-come-and-go-as-I-please mode.
but you are right as it is all about him right now
This seems to say it all. I am getting really tired of making my schedule around him, waiting to see if he calls or shows up. I was reading your thread when I heard my cell ring. It was in the other room and I didn't bother to get it because it was his ringtone. About 5 minutes later he called Ds phone. Usually he calls her phone right away if I don't answer. Maybe he was waiting to see if I would call back. I'm glad I didn't. Try as hard as you can BobbiJo to ignore your Hs calls sometimes. I'm guessing you have caller ID on your cell or you can set the ringtone for one that you will know is him. You need to take some control away from him. Let him know that you aren't sitting there waiting for him to call. I too have had trivial calls from my H that I think were him calling just to start a fight. H just brought up now getting a new furnace. I could tell he wasn't happy when I told him I don't want to dump money into the house right now. Again I question his motive as to if he is just trying to set us up for when he leaves for good. Is it time for the spaceship to come back for all these aliens yet?
