Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums Midlife Crisis Separated - how much contact should you have?

Brita, I am also dealing with an MLC H. My way is different from the conventional wisdom, but it is working well for me. The way I analysed it was like this:
-- H wants to have some contact with me
-- H is unstable emotionally, his feelings change from moment to moment
-- H is depressed
-- I want to have some contact with H
-- I am not unstable except in reaction to H crisis and how that affects me and our marriage
-- I am constitutionally unable to allow H to run the whole show according to his unstable feelings, and I don't think it is good for H to be allowed to do this either. H is actually mentally ill right now, and it may be a chronic condition -- anything that takes several years to resolve can be thought of as a chronic condition.

So what I did was this: I imposed some structure on the situation. I suppose it could have backfired on me but it didn't. Realizing that H did want some contact, I negotiated with him for regular, reliable contact. This is quite different from allowing H to call when he feels like it, and to see you when he feels like it. That situation just strung me out, I was mooning over the email in-box and checking for phone messages like a lovestruck teenager -- after awhile I just couldn't bear the indignity of the situation for me.

Our initial agreement was for two phone calls a week, on Mondays and Wednesdays at 5:30pm, and one date day or evening a week, on Fridays. After a few weeks H voluntarily increased the contact. We now have one phone call and two date days/overnights per week.

Your H sounds a lot like mine. Mine also has the same doubts about whether he wants to be married or not. Sexual faithfulness is part of our agreement. He understands that if he becomes involved with another woman there will be no relationship with me at all. We also have no children. I'm living successfully on my own. I can live with this arrangement for several years if need be. Hopefully H and I will live together again eventually, but I'm not in any hurry and neither is he.

It's very good advice not to have OR talks with H. Keep it light. Don't try to get him to 'look after' you as he has probably done in the past. He's incapable of it. He will appreciate a bit of nurturing, and he will appreciate feeling that you can look after yourself in his absence and that he doesn't need to feel responsible for your well-being. But I think it is a good thing, a positive thing, for him to undertake the small responsibility of adhering to a contact agreement with you.

Best of luck

Hi appleroad,
Thanks for your response. I was laughing at your statement of feeling like a lovesick teenager. I feel the same way, in fact it is almost pathetic how often I check to see if he has called or e-mailed. It sounds like establishing guidelines for contact would be great, but I am not sure how my H would respond. He has never been able to talk about his emotions and I always knew that he had a lot of issues with his parents divorce. He was 15 and his Dad was 37 (go figure! doesn't that sound familiar..)when he left his Mom and said that he just didn't love her anymore and he was moving on. My H became the man of the house and I know he most likely had to take care of his Mom emotionally. She is one of the those people that says they are fine and they have this great life after her husband left her, but you don't believe it. I could tell from the moment that I met her that she never moved on. By the way, she never went out on a date or had another relatiobship and it has been 23 years! So anyway, I always thought my H was so protective of his "Ma" and loved her dearly. But now that I look back, he doesn't really ever spend time w/her. He goes to see her to make sure that she is "okay" but, everytime we are there he always has errands to run or old friends to see. I realize that I was the one spending all the time w/ her. I realize now that as long as he knows that she is doing well, he really doesn't need to be w/her. By the way, H's relationship w/ Dad was always strained except for the last several years. Fast forward to Nov 07 when I got the bomb dropped, he said he wasn't in love anymore and he felt like he had to get away. I was shocked! We had been trying to have a baby for the previous 5 months and he was so affectionate and loving. Said he just didn't "feel" it for me anymore. When i brought up the baby thing he said that he only wanted to have a baby to save the marriage. Has he lost his mind?!!!!! Do you think that I would ever have a baby with someone that I thought was on the verge of leaving?? He looked at me and said, "why would I stay married if I am not in love w/ my wife?" Isn't interesting that his Dad said the same thing?...My H hated his Dad so much during his teenage years and he never has forgiven him for what he has done. That is why I think my H is freaked out right now, he has left and become the person that he never wanted to be (by the way, I don't think he has realized this). The way that he has always handled his emotions w/ me or his family is that he just shuts down. He gets really anxious and wants to leave the room or place that he is rather than talking about things. He is on anti-anxiety medicine right now, but he says that the only 2 people that make him anxious is me and his Mom. Don't I love that!!!

So....(sorry this is so long), since he moved out 3 weeks ago, we have not had any normal conversations about seperating. Everytime we do, he starts pacing and seeming anxious and says he has to go and he just doesn't have any answers for me. By the way, when he got his own apartment, he never told me that address. I never asked, but he never told. Can you believe it? Has that happened to anyone else on the board? I feel sad everyday. I am nervous the whole time that he just wants get away and he is going to treat me like his Mom. He just going to make sure that I am okay but, never do anything to restart our relationship. If I ask him for scheduled days to talk Iam afraid that it going to come off as a demand. What are your suggestions?
Brita

Hi,
A few more questions for you..... When your H told you he wasn't sure he wanted to be married anymore, did he say why? My H said he didn't want to be married anymore but, w/ no reasons. He said it was him not me. He just lost the feelings. Also, how did you have the sexual faithfulness conversation? At what stage or how long after he had moved out?
Brita

Hi Brita.

Had one of my sons been a daughter, Britta was going to be the name.

Now to you. I quickly read over your posts. The first thing I would like to say is don't try to overthink your actions. I know you are waiting for any tidbit from him, but the best thing to do is just go with the flow. I tend to be a person who answers email and phone calls quickly, so it is just normal. WHat is your normal mode? For instance if he calls at 8:30 on a Tuesday night, are you typically home, If yes, just answer the phone. Don't waste too much time thinking. If you play volleyball Wednesday night, just play. Don;ty interrupt your flow.

As for asking about the address, don;t call and ask. But if he bring his place up, ou nmight just ask so where are you living. If he answers, fine. If not, fine. If he asks why, just respond "just asking."

And in regards to the rest, I asked my ex why she had children with me if she was thinking she didn't want to be with me, her answer was I thought things would change. So the long and short is that the only person who can answer your questions is your H and at this point, I don;t see him doing any of that.

For now, live your life as you always have. Pick up that habby you always wanted to do. Want to grow bonsai, start now. Want to take a class in comparative religions, do it.

Live. Things aren't going to just change right back.

IMP

Thank you for your response and support. What did your H tell you as to why he was leaving? What are his reesons for the seperation? Do you contact him at all...what about for bills? Do you feel that you did the DBing and then it fell to the side when he came back?
Brita

Hi,
Did he tell you where he staying right now? My H, got his own apartment 2 weeks ago and never told me the address. I never asked b/c I was trying to do a 180 and not ask questions. My that is really screwed up! He knows where I live and comes by the house when he needs things but, I am not allowed to know where he is?........
Brita

Britta,
hey, I know what you are feeling exactley in regards to not knowing where H is living. After the first bomb (March '07)which was a note he had left me when I returned home from work- my H would not tell me where he was living for over three weeks. I, of course was so shocked (and knew nothing of this board and DBing @ the time)so I begged him to tell me and he would refuse to let me know. I finally found his work truck at a set of apt's in our town on his birthday night, and basically forced him to face me that night. It was terrible, and he told me to my face that what he really wants was not just time and space but rather a Divorce. I was crushed, and desperately seeked help and finally arrived at this wonderful board. The next two months afterward I DB'd my butt off (and even went dark when I found out about the other women-stripper-yuck)and he came running back to me in Mid July.
However, my H has just recently dropped the 2nd bomb in mid-Dec (after peicing for 5 months), and this time he actually told me where he is living and that it is a dump.
I know what you must be going through right now (all the ?'s and worries that are going through your mind). However, If he wants you to know he will tell you where he is living. If he doesn't want you to know, then he wont- and it would probably make things worse if you pursue the topic. You will probably find out one way or another, all in good time. I just don't want you to make the same mistake that I made, by forceing him to face me when he didn't want to.
Have you sensed that he may be hiding something (like an Affair). Cuz if you have that sense, that is probably why he doesn't want you to know, as it could rain on his parade. At least I think that was my H's thoughts last spring, and it only pissed him off worse when I pursued it.
TIPPER

Hi Brita..how are you doing?

No..I also dont know where my BF is, I think I know where he is staying, back home with either his Mum or brother, but he could be back down here where we moved to, staying with work mates. He hasnt let me know all along! You know, my BF does sound alot like your H. Poor us ! You said...


My BFs parents also divorced when he was 15..apparently the divorce "hit him really hard", but I only found this out recently from his Mum. (He also professes to love her, but barely speaks to her or makes excuses to avoid her, like your H.)



Again, my BF had the same, until a few years ago when his Dad had a stroke and they grew closer.


Again, same here, Nov 2. I also was shocked. Said he didnt love me anymore and just wanted to "be by himself".


Again, thats what my BF said, he gets agitated and says he has no answers for me. He hasnt mentioned anything about our complicated joint finances since he left, its like he cant face talking about anything that involves responsibility, or me. Like I said, I dont even know where he's staying or working. He may even have found a flat by now, but I dont know. I guess for him, its just over, he doesnt love me anymore..for me, I am still in love with him and wondering where he is and if hes ok.

I think...they really dont have any answers. I guess in time, looking back with the benefit of hindsight, they will. Everyone here says that it takes ages, months...Its so hard when you're in the eye of the storm though.

He has now NC me since New Year. I wonder how you are getting on? I'm sorry I cant offer advice like others here, I'm new to this and still trying to get my head around it, like you I guess! All I can say is, I think I know what you're going through...

Ali

Hi Brita

Here is a link for you, a very good description of midlife transition as a predictable developmental stage, written by a psychology professor on his own website: "Midlife Metamorphosis" by Dan Johnston

http://www.lessons4living.com/midlife.htm

Generally, people bring whatever baggage they have into the midlife crisis. Your account of your husband's early life sounded very much like the situation with my first husband. (It is helpful to have travelled this ground before, but a heck of a way to gain knowledge!) But this is not at all the story of my second husband's early life, and he is also having MLC. So my advice to you is to forget all of these ruminations and explanations. None of those details really matter. What matters is how you decide to respond to H MLC. How you respond to the present situation can make a difference in the outcome, BUT, but, but, but -- you have also to accept that even with the most enlightened response the outcome is not guaranteed. This is a true crisis in your marriage. It could go either way. All you can do is to play the best hand you can, give yourself whatever small advantage is available. AND ALSO, the best hand you can play towards preserving your marriage is also the hand that will preserve yourself regardless of what happens in the marriage crisis. This is a big deal, a lot going on, a lot to think about.

My advice is -- do not, absolutely do not try to get from H anything about what his plans are, or rational planning for the future, or reassurances about your relationship. Right now, all is chaos in his mind. All there is are a bunch of regrets and possibilities. He is totally consumed by his own inner process. He is unable, truly unable, to factor your wellbeing into his thinking. You are much more stable and competent now than he is. If you force the issue which naturally consumes you: what is going to happen to my marriage? -- you may end up forcing him into a position which you will not like. So learn to live with this chaos and work on the little things which may eventually result in the H chaos organizing itself back into a life with you.

As far as obtaining from H a contact schedule which suits YOU (and why not, Brita, after all you are important in your own right, and you are also important to H healing, so no need to be apologetic about this) -- it is a matter of delicate negotiation. Demands will not work. First of all I would let H have a chance to feel comfortable and nurtured in your presence -- replace embarrassing questions/concerns with gentle validations and gentle fun. Then I would simply and gently let H know that you have a life -- you can't be on perpetual hold for him but you really do want to see him and don't want to miss a chance to be with him, so you would like the two of you to work out a schedule of contact. Go for the minimum contact which will allow you to be comfortable -- he does need lots of time to himself right now.

It will likely take more than one session to arrive at agreement. During the negotiations, make it clear to him that you are happy to give him the time & space he needs right now, but you will not tolerate sexual infidelity while he is living apart from you. Gentle but firm.

Read everything you can about male midlife crisis. Jed Diamond is one of my favorite sources. He's written a couple of books and blogs on-line. Do a google for his on-line articles.

This takes a long time, be prepared for a long haul. Try to enjoy the ride. Best of luck.

CHange the locks!