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Bump Please.....

S02,
Ok...2X4's coming. Please keep in mind these are being sent with love!



This is a bit obsessive...and intrusive. AND...are you surprised? Really, are you surprised? And oh my gosh...lying?? No way!
SO2...this is not out of character for how he has been acting. You were just as surprised and hurt when you saw the pics of OW's kids. You're doing this to yourself. You're expecting things from him that you KNOW he isn't going to give you right now.


What do you think he thought when you said this? Do you think he thought "OH NO, I'm caught!". I doubt it. Probably more like "crazy lady is stalking me! Run quick!". You've given him reason to become even more secretive and to not trust YOU.

And from 5:30 to 10:30 you obsessed about him. Beat yourself up trying to make sense of it.


You needed to do this at 5:35PM...not at 10:15. You wasted 5 hours of YOUR life on him.


This is for you to decide. It's not about him...when is it enough for YOU.

You're givng him the opportunities lie to you and then getting upset about it. You've got to stop focusing on him and expecting better from him. He's not capable of it right now.

You have EVERY right to be mad and hurt. I really feel for you. I found out that last night H drove 3 hrs with OW to celebrate HER b-day with HER family. I'm upset, hurt, devastated...blah blah blah. Why drive myself nuts when I can't do anything about it. The only person I can control is ME.


What do you need to say? Why do you need to say anything? Why answer? You just said in the sentence before "No contact at all". Why does that mean "No contact except what I need to say?".
Show him you ARE through with it. Show him enough IS enough. You have got precious few weeks left before your baby gets here and this is not going to help you get to the place where you need to be. I feel for you, I really do...but you have stop worrying about what he is doing and who he is with. And you REALLY have to stop snooping. Remember...don't believe 100% of what they say and only 50% of what you see.

Let him go to go through this and focus on yourself. If you keep doing this you're going to push him even further away.
I'm sorry that you had a rough night. Make today better...do something for YOURSELF!!
(((hugs)))
J~

Jenny...I do feel like an out of control, obscessed stalker. I always regret when I snoop. I wish he lived farther away than right up the road.

I am not going to say anything. I am not answering his stupid 'how are you?' texts. He does not deserve to know and made his choices to be out of my life.

I am so glad I am seeing the attorney tomorrow. I have a million questions lined up about his rights and my rights. A friend told me awhile ago....this is who H is and always has been and always will be. He has not changed and never will.

The thought of him totally disgusts me.

I totally feel for you SO2. It hurts like heck when they lie to you and you know it. But, Jenny is right, he can't give you what you need right now. I need to remember this advice, as well, as I sit here upset that H hasn't contacted me in 4 days. We are expecting them to be different people and they just aren't. They are who they are right now, as much as that hurts. I'm sorry your weekend didn't go so well, neither did mine. I wish that I had the strength to tell him to take a flying leap.

Hang in there.

Be careful with this. I have people right now trying to convince me that H "had us all fooled". I say that's BS. I know who I married! You don't spend 9 years with someone and not know who they are. The last year may have been questionable, but I'm not going to let anyone tell me that the last decade of my life has been a lie.

I choose the believe this is who he is NOW. Whether he is this person for good remains to be seen. But I KNOW it wasn't always him and no one can tell me different. It too easy for outsiders to sit there and make these blanket statements.

I still hold out hope that his fate isn't to be this person forever. God has a plan for him and I pray that this is part of his journey to being a BETTER person.
Having said that, this is my journey too...I don't get to choose these circumstances but I do get to choose how I deal with them and how I let them effect me.

You're a good person SO2...don't let the circumstances get the better of you and turn you into someone you're not. Leave that to our H's.
J~

Awesome Jenny. That is a great way to think about it. I think I'll use that, too. My Mom keeps telling me this is who he has always been, he just couldn't pretend that he wasn't anymore. It always kills me to think that the last 6 years has been an act.

Alright I am a bit calmer. Thank you guys. I just know for me this has been going on so long and he is getting worse and not better. He truly is a cake eater. He wants his life 2 ways.

I did hear from him and he text'd....whats the problem?

I haven't responded and I won't. I need some space from him. Maybe that is a bad db practice but I cannot keep going thru this. One of these times I have to fish or cut bait. Maybe its coming sooner than I think.

Don't respond. Let him stew a little, he deserves it. I don't think it is bad DB practice at all. You need to distance yourself right now and get your bearings back. Otherwise, you may say something you don't want to, right? I think we are living parallel lives sometimes. I'm totally pissed off at H right now. He hasn't contacted me in almost 4 days and then he just texts me to ask if I could loan him money for gas this week. I told him that I was sorry, but I didn't have it right now. He didn't text me back. Go bleed that wh*** (insert nasty name) dry, not me. Sorry, bitter today. I think Jenny is pretty bitter too this weekend, if I recall correctly. Must be one of those weekends. Maybe our H's cycle together. Like they get their periods.

Your H does sound alot like mine. A taker.

I did respond and it wasn't very nice. I guess I am just tired of this crap and want him to stay away from me. Its pretty obvious that the only reason he gives me the time of day is because of this baby. That I can deal with. Fine. I can and will go on. But, the trying to play both sides of the fence is not ok with me. I think I am better off alone.

This is what I sent:

Me:I have a baby coming. I cannot think about you, your lies or the pathetic slut you are with. We deserve so much better. Your life and your priorities are so messed up. You seem to have no conscience or regrets for your choices. I have alot of decisions to make. Goodbye.

H: Its a no win situation with you and God only knows why you think and believe the way you do.

I really think he forgot about last night. Maybe (probably) he was drunk. I guess he forgot the lies he told. I guess he forgot he was out all night. Hmmm.... On another board I am on they call it gaslighting, which is turning the tables to make you think this is all in your head or that you are crazy.

I keep asking myself what part of him do I need? I can't think of one redeeming quality in the man right now. Hes addicted, he has major commmitment and insecurity issues, hes a user, and cannot even manage the girls he has now.

I may get bashed for this, but I am on another site that has a different feeling about saving relationships and marriages. I read this today.

****I'm now 2 1/2 years post d-day. I am nearly divorced. Here are my perspectives given 20/20 hindsight.
This applies for the foggy, unremorseful, and cake-eating WS's:

1. Reconciliation is ONLY possible with a WS who is quickly and consistently remorseful.

2. How quickly?

In retrospect, I wish I'd given my foggy WH ONE MONTH and no more. Yes, there are stories on SI of WS's de-fogging months and months later. I read those stories and held out too much hope for my own WS. Some WS's never de-fog. And if they are still gaslighting and justifying over a month later, folks, I'm sorry, but it's not looking hopeful.

3. What do you mean by consistently remorseful?

Some WS's act real sorry in brief spurts. Or they get a dose of de-fogging (usually by an outside source) and promise everything. For a few days. Or sometimes even a week or two.

My hindsight rule of thumb? Before a BS should believe that R is happening, a good solid month of remorse, without lapses of justification and gaslighting, needs to pass. I often leapt at the "opportunity" to R with stbxh on the barest of efforts on his part.

4. I wish I'd not given a damn if I made WS angry.

I ran around after d-day scared of making stbxh angry at me. Scared that he'd leave me. Ya know what? A remorseful WS isn't going to "leave you" just because they caught you snooping at the caller id on the cell phone. But a lying, still-cheating WS surely will bluster and get all up in arms.

5. Define your minimum standards and stick to them sooner rather than later.

Minimum standards? These are the MUST-HAVES for your marriage to continue. YOUR must-haves. Think hard. We BS's will have a lot of wants. Pare away the wants. Get down to the core. If these core issues can't be met, the rest is pie-in-the-sky anyway.

My minimums were: NC with OW; getting rid of people who assisted/hid the affair; honesty, and counseling.

My wants were many, including apologizing to my parents, curtailing "guys' nights" out, getting rid of some loser friends, more intertwined activities, . . . and so on. I found my core by working really hard and honestly, "If he doesn't do XXX am I willing to stay married?" The "wants" would have made my marriage a helluva lot better, but I was truthfully willing to stay with much less.

I needed my "minimum standards" because I twisted in the wind so much. When I finally defined my minimum, well, it was a lot easier to gauge when stbxh was bullshitting.

For example, stbxh offered to move to a new town and "start over." Sounds great, right? But when I said, "yes, but first you have to end your activity with xx (an accomplice,)" he wouldn't do it. He wanted to take me on vacations. "Yes, but come to MC this week." He wouldn't do it. Or the times he wanted to move home. "First send all the bills to our home address and give me your passwords." [The honesty issue]. He wouldn't do it.

6. Never reveal your sources

Listen to me. Never reveal your sources. An unremorseful or foggy WS will lie to the bitter end. They will swear on their children, their parents, on the Bible, etc. Just believe in yourself and your evidence. If you are confronting the WS, don't reveal the way you got your info. If they lie, just keep repeating, "You are lying and I know it."

7. Gather up your army

You are at war for your marriage. Don't namby-pamby around. Depressed? Get anti-depressants sooner than later. Not sleeping? Get sleeping aids sooner than later. Hell, yes, go shopping and update your look (men and women). Get to IC. Vent away here. Out the OP to their spouse, their job, their friends.

8. The strategy

Given the above, I wish I had done the 180 for two months and no more. In month one, I wish I had defined my cores. I wish I had not reasoned, argued, pleaded. I wish I had just done the 180 for that time. Each time I failed, I wish I'd dusted myself off and plugged away at it again.

Then, if WS had not de-fogged or was breaking NC with OP after two months, I wish I had proceeded to . . .

9. NC

No contact for months three and four. I wish I hadn't called him to cry. To hear his voice. To get my fix. To check up on him. I wish I had stuck to e-mail about the kids and finances ONLY. If this didn't de-fog WS, by month four or five, I should have:

10. Finalized divorce preparations, maintaining NC.

By getting finances and paperwork in order. Retained a lawyer.

11. By month six, if the WS was still in the A, still breaking NC, still not remorseful. . . well, it's just my opinion that their actions are screaming volumes. They aren't gonna change.

so

12. File

File for separation or divorce. And let your lawyer play hard and fast. Don't interrupt the process. Don't be scared of making the WS mad. Please, he or she has been cheating on you. I don't know one of us down in separaton and divorce whose WS "did right" by us in the divorce.

Yes, it is possible to R, even after a divorce. Is the divorce making them de-fog? Don't stop the process, but refer them to your core issues. Hell, my stbxh has asked to R with me right up to this day. But you know what? He has NEVER done the four things all at once.*******