Another thing that has helped me, and I'm sure many might say this is a bad idea, is taking Benadryl an hour before going to bed. Not only does it make me sleepy, it kills my sex drive at the same time. Without it, there were many nights where I was tired as heck but so sexually frustrated I couldn't sleep. Like any "advice" you hear on any message board, consider the source (amateur well wishers) and use your best judgement before following.
The most important thing a father can do for his children is to love their mother.
Fred, Thanks for your suggestion. I think it's a good one and I'll probably at least give the direct approach a try. However I should probably wait until my wife has had some time to digest everything that I've hit her with in the last couple of days. By the way, I wanted to thank you for some of the things you stated in jen381's thread. You stated so eloquently several things that I've been thinking but haven't managed to put into words. Specifically:
Quote: "My W has thought that once or twice a month was plenty. For me, I'd rather have zero sex than only just once or twice a month. Once or twice a month is only often enough to remind me how good life COULD be. It's like a tease of the good life. If it just never happened at all I'd just accept that it wasn't going to happen and never get my hopes up. Having sex once a month means 29 other nights of hope then rejection."
Quote: "About half an hour after sex I get in the worst mood possible because I start wondering how long I'll have to go without sex again. I just used up my monthly quota. I also get really confused - since the W seemed to really enjoy it why does she only want it once a month?"
Quote: "Without sex I do not feel loved. I can hear a million times "I love you"; or get my favorite meal, or come home to an immaculate house and it means very little when I am sex starved. There is a physical urge that makes me want sex just about every day. I'm not saying I have to have it every day to feel loved. But the physical desire is there every day. More than a few days without sex makes me very irritable. Taking care of my own needs helps reduce the feelings of hurt temporarily and at least takes my mind off of it for a few hours or maybe the rest of the night. But that is only a temporary relief and the feelings of rejection and ultimately anger and resentment return. The longer its been, or the longer I think its going to be until next time, the stronger my hurt feelings."
Quote: "...getting reminded by my W that we had sex "just last week". The feelings I get when I hear that from her are, "So I felt like you loved me one day last week. What about the other six days? What about this week?""
Those statements describe exactly how I feel at times - thank you for putting them into words. Also, MPT's post in that same thread is excellent. I'm so tempted to ask my wife to read it - should I do so or would it be better to leave her alone for the time being? And while I'm in the process of using posts written by others to express how I feel, the following quote from Corri in her post titled "Diving In" is exactly why I miss having a passionate sexual relationship with my wife. Sure I can make her feel good by doing more things for her and supporting her emotionally, but neither of those will make her feel like this:
Quote: "We had the most incredible conversation last night, then topped it off with very nice S...and the smile...the depth of the smile on his face, shining from his eyes...I thought to myself..."I did that...look at that...look at what I was able to make another being...one of the most important beings in my life...feel." Overwhelming."
The way that Corri made her husband feel is exactly the way that I wish I could affect my wife by making love to her. If I could make her feel like that, it seems like all of her other problems and concerns would become so insignificant.
I think there is a real possibility for quicker turnaround than you might think. You never really know. I certainly thought it would be a long haul for our marriage to get to the point we are at now.
My h and I have been having a lot of really good talks about the whole sex thing recently. He had an interesting take on things and I asked him if I could share some with you. He made a distinction between high desire for sex and high need. He says he’s high desire, high enjoyment, and just about always ready (he’s discovered recently that aging has caught up with him somewhat.) But he isn’t high need. I challenged him on that. I asked him about some of the things he had said and some things he had done, which I had interpreted as him feeling unloved, very unhappy, and his needs being unmet by his deficient wife. He told me I was misinterpreting and reading too much into those things.
He really wants and loves having sex with me and it makes him feel very good, but he said he doesn’t need me to have sex with him in order for him to feel loved by me. Sex is dessert, not the entrée. He pointed out that just as I have been able to change my desire for sex largely by changing my own thoughts about him, he thinks the need for sex to feel loved can also be controlled by our frontal lobes. He pointed out that a need for sex to feel loved is a very difficult position to put oneself in given that it involves someone else’s body. He said he wouldn’t want to be in that position even though he loves making love with me!
As he was pointing this all out to me, I felt an even greater sense of relief than I have over the last few weeks. Having sex with him became even more appealing. I fell more in love with him. The difference is in feeling like a person wants to make love to you because he loves you rather a person wants to make love with you because he needs it to feel loved by you.
There might be several benefits to you if you look at what role sex plays for you in your feelings of being loved. First, if you are a high need, not just high desire, person, you might actually be freeing yourself if you work on making sex a little less important to your sense of closeness, love, and intimacy. I don’t mean just resigning yourself to the possibility of never having the sex you need, but actually really changing your thoughts. Second, your wife might sense this change and the pressure she may be feeling will be lifted. Taking the pressure off can possibly have the effect of making sex more likely.
Here's a nonsexual example of something I've changed about what I thought I needed from my h. I have an area of interest that is a part of my core being. My husband doesn't share that interest. I used to think that for him to truly understand and love me and really connect with me, he needed to be a part of that part of me. Because he wasn't, I told myself that we weren't really close the way I needed to be close. I don't think that anymore. As a result of changing my thinking on that issue, I can now see the love my h has always had for me and feel as close to him as I could possibily want.
The beauty of working on how you think about sex is that it is within your control. You aren’t dependent on another person changing.
MPT, I don't think I am like your H. Wish I was. I must be high need. Maybe I'm screwed up but no sex = no love to me. Sex would probably not be an issue or focal point if I was getting it frequently. Its like when you are starving all you can think about is getting some food. When you can get food often enough you don't focus on it anymore.
Sooner, hearing that you can relate to my thoughts helps me big time. For so long my W has been telling me I'm a freak for being obsessed about sex that I was starting to believe it. When I gave her chapter 1 of SSM I said, "See! I'm not crazy afterall!"
Sounds like you should be much softer in your approach than I have been. I was half out the door due to her EA so I held nothing back.
The most important thing a father can do for his children is to love their mother.
Quoting FredD: Sex would probably not be an issue or focal point if I was getting it frequently. Its like when you are starving all you can think about is getting some food. When you can get food often enough you don't focus on it anymore.
The same thought occurred to me too, that he could see sex this way because he hasn't been sex-starved recently. But when we actually got down to the specifics of his behavior during our starvation period, I have to admit that he was right about me misreading him and blowing things out of proportion. (I'm working on not doing that so much.)
I only had a limited number of examples of his behavior that might indicate he was seriously distressed about the lack of sex. Even those examples were pretty pathetic, based mostly on ambiguous non-verbal behavior. Boy, did I feel foolish when I looked at all my evidence of how much he needed sex to feel loved!
The fact is he has had a much clearer picture than I have had of the strength of our marriage and our relationship throughout this whole thing. I'm just glad I've finally gotten out from underneath the thumb of my "needs," and can begin to really enjoy my best friend and lover again.
I think having both spouses first understand and second communicate their needs effectively is a major milestone. You must be on the right track! My W is starting to understand my needs but hasn't really told me what she needs different from me. She must need something or she wouldn't have had the EA with OM. What is really disturbing is the EA started about the time I was feeling the best about our R that I ever had. I stopped working late all the time and was probably more attentive to her than ever before.
Off to see the MC with my W. Then taking the kids to my sister's so we can have dinner out and a movie.
The most important thing a father can do for his children is to love their mother.
Quote: My W is starting to understand my needs but hasn't really told me what she needs different from me. She must need something or she wouldn't have had the EA with OM. What is really disturbing is the EA started about the time I was feeling the best about our R that I ever had.
oh fred you are so not alone!!!
my h cannot express to me what his needs are though does know they are different from mine...h had an ea just when I was starting to "accept" our r for what it was..
long story...just wanted to let you know your not alone..and oh ya...things can change.
Quote: . What is really disturbing is the EA started about the time I was feeling the best about our R that I ever had.
That should have been your first clue!Guess you haven't read DR: WAW Syndrome! Exact same sit for me, W has filed D papers, wants out, no chance of R! What does OG give her :"all the right words" "Doesn't treat me like a piece of meat" Maybe he can't get a har***! She'll be sorry! HA HA
I think you're both right. I would actually consider myself high desire as opposed to high need. Even when I've gone a long time without making love to my wife, in the back of my mind I still KNOW that she loves me. But at those times I FEEL that she doesn't love me - if that makes any sense. What you've both basically said is that when sex isn't happening with a reasonable frequency it's the only thing you think about - it basically becomes a need. I agree with MPT's husband that sex is dessert, not the entrée. But when you've gone so long without dessert, you begin to lose your appetite for the entrée as well. Fred summed it up well when he said "Its like when you are starving all you can think about is getting some food. When you can get food often enough you don't focus on it anymore." I think that's completely true. All this food talk is making me hungry.
Thank you both for you comments and MPT please thank your husband for getting involved as well. It's nice to feel like my "support group" is growing.
that aging has caught up with him somewhat.) But he isn’t high need. I challenged him on that. I asked him about some of the things he had said and some things he had done, which I had interpreted as him feeling unloved, very unhappy, and his needs being unmet by his deficient wife. He told me I was misinterpreting and reading too much into those things. 
ny