Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums THE SEX-STARVED MARRIAGE In Support of Strong Puppy

Guess what? FloppySocks Guy bought me 1940's style Nancy Drew hat and shipped it to me. I protested but he was like "Oh no, I HAD to do it." and he was chortling when he said it. He is definitely my top swain. I have decided that he is a hippopotamus. He's always very jolly and he seems superficially benign in his muscularity but he has quite a tough hide and you pretty much can't stop him when he's barreling through the jungle with a monkey girl and bunny on his back.

Interesting story about your sex last night. I had a similar experience last night. H was all wolf/monkey and I was in the middle of working on something and was just not feeling the love so to speak. In the past, my weak cow would have just said no and probably gotten annoyed with him as well that our sex didn't just flow or something lame like that.
Well, last night I told him flat out - "I want to have sex with you. I'm just not feeling real horny." He started to just pull away and say that's ok because that has been our way in the past. I said "No. Don't. You never put your sexual needs before mine and you probably should get away with that sometimes. lol. There is nothing wrong with that. Plus it's kind of hot that you want me even when I'm not vibing sexual with you"
So away we went and it was good. He even commented afterwards - "I may be the only man I know who's W tells him, "no honey, I don't want sex but go ahead and do me anyways." Lol. He was quite pleased with himself. I said "Yeah, isn't that the irony. You have a very sexual W (and clearly I have a sexual H) yet our SL was all messed up."
Before, I think that my weak cow and horny monkey messed everything up sometimes. His lack of wolf and too strong a St. Bernard didn't help. But now the animals are all living in peace and harmony.

LFL

Let the role playing begin!

When are you going to see this hippo?

LFL

(Kett) (This assumes you mean "pushing through resistance" in a ... legal? way. Some serious seduction, some saucy tease. I *assume* you aren't referring to *actually* not taking a *serious* "no" for an answer. Which would be the deal-breaker to end all deal-breakers with me, right up there with physical violence. The epitome of disrespect. But I'm sure that's not what you meant.)

You once quoted the movie Oscar in this very forum, so I like you.

Never ever do that up there to me again.

Mrs. Eddie? Is that you?

(Nope. Different history and all. But, she did recently say "I want you but I'm not in the mood" shortly before letting me help her get in the mood.)

BB,

I'm going to address this post to you but it may be relevant to the general audience. In my post above to Kett, I pointed out that the Sean Hayes character was a strong submissive monkey. Clearly, Will is a weak dom. The reason why he is a weak dom is that he vibes too St.Bernard relative to Wolf. He's a "nice guy" who just happens to be homosexual rather than hetero. Now, the Grace character is clearly kind of weak bunkey. She is roughly modeled after the comedic character played by Lucille Ball in "I Love Lucy". The Lucy character is total bunkey. Since the show aired in the 1950s there was no overt sexuality but the relationship between Lucy and Desi was classic sub/dom. The reason why women are unreliable is that women are mostly sexually submissive (monkey) and therefore it is their sexual role to be unreliable/naughty etc. in order to get the dom to either build up a head of testosterone (the dominant sex drive being closely related to rage) or release the head of testosterone which he is over-controlling. Lucy wanted to be spanked/f*cked and therefore she had to be unreliable in order to get Desi to vibe all puffed-up gorilla bellowing "Lucy!". What keeps the classic sub/dom relationship functional rather than abusive is the balance between the St.Bernard and the Wolf. Desi "spanks" Lucy but by the end of the show they're always hugging.

Anyways, what does this have to do with strong puppy? The monkey is the most unreliable animal. Somebody who was out-of-control monkey could never be faithful. However, the only way to keep the monkey in control is to constantly spank it which would get quite tiring. Therefore, if you want to be a dom but you want to be in a healthy balanced relationship, you should seek a woman who has enough cow to balance her monkey. The cow is not the sexiest animal but she is reliable. All women have cows and the way to get the cow to manifest strongly is to vibe strong puppy. The lioness is reliable and sexy but she is also sexually dominant. If you do dominate a lioness you have effectively turned her into a monkey and you are back to square 1.

Even worse he "knew" he wasn't doing his half more than I knew. So he had guilt and shame already mixed in. But what do you think he did with his lousy feelings? Deflect, deflect, deflect.

To your point:



I completely agree with this line of thought. Of course you're assuming that I ONLY was weak bunny with this subject. Unfortunately during our 15 years together I was monkey, strong bunny, lioness and cow and nothing worked.

He wasn't at all purposely trying to hurt me and he really wasn't being thoughtless. He was just being selfish in pursuing the outside validation he needed.

For one specific example, about 4.5 years into our marriage we went to a party given by a woman he worked with (the woman who became his first significant EA). I knew no one at the party. Within 20 minutes of walking in, she had grabbed his hand and said she wanted to talk to him alone and walked him over to a couch where the two of them sat down. I simply mingled and talked with others and had a good time. I hardly looked over at them except to smile and after an hour and a half or more when others finally started sitting down and talking with them, I wandered over. This was the first time I had met this woman and my XH had become such good friends with her that I was expecting to become friends with her too. So they are still sitting side by side on the couch. She drank directly from his beer bottle and leans her head on him. WTF? I still stay completely calm. When we finally leave I don't say anything about her behavior for awhile and we talk about others at the party, blah blah blah. Finally I gently ask about his friend's behavior and immediately I get jumped on. "I knew you'd say something. That's just the ways she is - touchy feely. You're so insecure."

My opinion now is that he knew that she and he really had acted inappropriately but the fact is he liked that validation from her and it was worth the pain it caused me. In many ways I think it's fair to say that he abused my strength. Another example with her was an evening at dinner with her and her fiance and my XH and me. While we were eating she reached across the table to wipe off MY XH's mouth. Is this considered normal by anyone here?? When we were driving home, same thing. I wait to give him a chance to simply say, "Hey weird wasn't it the way she wiped my mouth?" That's all I wanted. I didn't expect him to slap her hand away or do anything. I just wanted to feel like he recognized that she was overstepping bounds. Instead I get "Sheesh, I hoped you wouldn't notice" and a further discussion about what's wrong with fearless.

Ironically (?) the last we talked about her XH was struggling with a lot of negative feelings toward her. He felt she should have known her actions were inappropriate and in the end he believes that she was getting some validation for it too. He's still so puppy that it hurts him to think that everyone isn't always looking out for his best interests over their's. They really were nothing more than friends but an EA is definitely what they had. because it didn't become more than an EA, he felt okay with his next EA which did become a PA.

Trust me I have been over this in MC and IC. My counselor eventually thought that the only thing I really hadn't tried was stating that I would leave if things didn't change. Of course for me that seems absurd. I got married to stay married and the idea of leaving just because my XH was insecure and needed extra validation didn't seem worthy of leaving. But maybe that was my problem, may be I should have considered it a bigger issue and put my foot firmly down. I just hated the idea of being the insecure nag of a wife that can't let her H have any fun. Also I didn't want him to stop the excessive flirting because I demanded it. I wanted him to stop because he didn't want to hurt me and cared for me. (and I was willing to wait until he eventually got the strength to do that. I really believed he would eventually get there) I'm not the kind of woman or wife that needs to be glued to the side of her H at a party. But I also don't like feeling like I'm intruding if I do walk over to my H at a party. Does that make sense?

Fearless

This is why I think puppy/bunny (and monkey) are critical to maintaining intimacy in a M.
It's basically flirting with emotional intensity thrown in.
You were lacking that for some reason with Ex so he found that with someone else.
The fence was torn down. And it sounds like you didn't want to "tend that fence" when you saw it happening.
I think I'm disagreeing here with MJ on being able to just remain confidence in yourself despite the actions of the person you are with. I just don't think that is realistic. Not for maintaining the R/M.
My guess is your H wanted to see you become vulnerable when he acted like that but you wanted to act like it wasn't as serious as it was. That backfired. I dunno. Just a guess.

LFL

You were lacking that for some reason with Ex so he found that with someone else.

Nope. We were pretty passionate together.

For some reason, which XH is, I think, trying to figure out, he needed outside validation. Any woman who becomes close to him falls into this same trap. It wasn't just me.

My guess is your H wanted to see you become vulnerable when he acted like that

?? No when I was vulnerable - crying, etc. - he was angry with me and would yell and walk away from me.

I actually am fine with puppy behavior. My XH was almost exclusively puppy and I handled it. I don't think it was the healthiest state for him. I also know that he hated how out of control he was. But at the same time if I asked him to take control, he hated that too.

The advantage that the other women had that I (and his other Long Term relationships) did not have is distance. I was too close so I was not safe.

My point with all of this is NOT that I was perfect because I am not and was not. My point is that at some points we have to recognize that our partner's dysfunctions are not going to be fixed by us. Yes I can balance out differences of temperament, personalities, etc. by my actions. But I cannot override serious dysfunction.

IMO, that's why you and Mr. LFL are really going to be okay. Neither one of you is perfect but neither one is really dysfunctional either. yes he walked out because he was struggling with depression and yes you've had you're own drama but I think both of you are really good people who love each other. You both needed to just get in tune with yourselves and each other a bit more. Sure you'll have ups and downs but I think both of you finally are SEEING the other in the best light and that alone should do wonders for your relationship!!

That's why I wonder if Karen's H is so different. I wonder if he doesn't have some somewhat severe dysfunction - homosexuality (which is a dysfunction in a hetero relationship!!), etc. I believe her when she states all she has tried especially because her context is not that she tried everything and is leaving. She feels she's tried everything and yet she intends to stay. So in the end she still won't give up which I admire!!

huh....that stumps me.
As someone who can relate to your H in terms of often seeking validation from other people, I do not think I would be in that state if I was receiving this validation from H. I am now, so we are on a good path. My H seeks validation from me as well. And I don't think there is anything wrong with that. In fact, I think it is necessary for the passion to stay strong.
So I dunno. Maybe like you said, your H was just really dysfunctional. But then why would you be attracted to him? It doesn't make sense. hmmm

Well, I didn't mean crying, just heartfelt honesty. That what he was doing was painful to you because you loved him so much and really want to be each others "go to" person for that stuff. Stated better , but you get the point...

Thanks. I think you are right. We are both doing as much work on ourselves individually as we are as a couple. That's a huge change and probably the key to making it work.

I don't know what is going on with her H. All I know for sure is that staying in the M as is will not be healthy for her. I hope she can find a way out of their dysfunction.

LFL