Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums THE SEX-STARVED MARRIAGE Recently Married into a sexless marriage

I would like to be spoken to with respect and kindness instead of disdain and shortness.
I would like there to be no sarcasm or snide tone in our conversations or fights, its demeaning and abusive and I wont tolerate it anymore.
I would like you to stop drinking until we get our relationship back on track.
I would like when we talk about problems that it doesn’t turn into the blame game or the “if you’d just (rub my back, take me to dinner, make a date night, put some romance into it, tell me sweet things, buy me meaningful trinkets) id do____” I will GLADLY do those things when WE get back on track.
I would like to not be criticized for little things, like the way I drive, the way I eat, the way I dress, because I took the tip for the cab out of my pocket early, because I didn’t know you wanted me to hold your hand, because I bought you hard tacos, etc...
I would like the little things to be let go, like accidentally missing your turn in a board game, darts, throwing out popcorn etc. or anything else small.
I would like you to accept my apology about the little things and that be the end of it. Not to continue criticizing me and belittling me about it well after the issue is resolved
I would like you to not look for things to stay mad about.
I would like you to NOT roll your eyes or look away when I kiss you. I would like to be kissed passionately back.
I would like NOT to be hurt sexually anymore. By hurt I mean not to be denied sex in an ugly and condescending tone. It is ok if yorue not up for it, but you don’t have to hurt me for wanting it. A simple not tonight, or an I’ll make it up to you tomorrow is A LOT less wounding than “Gaa would you just go masturbate?” or a “would you just stick it in, that’s all you want anyways”
I would like us to work together to stop ripping each other apart.
I would like us to be playful, flirty, and have fun together again.
I would like you to not get angry at me because I am trying to help you. I.e. with the laundry, cleaning, dishes, cooking, or miscellaneous projects, etc. If you don’t like how im doing it, tell me how and I will do it. Don’t just get mad and be mean to me because im not doing it your way.
I would like you to control your temper better and work at peace instead of continuing to look for things to be mad about.
I would like us to work together for the common good.
I would like PATIENCE when I don’t understand something you’re telling me.
I would like if you ask me a question and I don’t answer it in a way that you understand to ask a different question. Not to continue asking the same question and get irritated when I give the same answer.
I do NOT expect you to be my maid, my chef, my laundry service, or my sexual recepticle. I DO expect to have a fair, balanced, loving, emotionally bonding, giving, generous relationship with you and I am willing to work together to achieve it.

What do you guys think of this? Less demanding? more cooperative?

Err.. if it's a problem now, why would it not be a problem later? it makes no sense to me, to say that she needs to stop drinking merely until things are "back on track".
If her drinking is truely a problem, then it's important that she stop. period.

Same goes for your drinking, eh?




I think this is backwards.
Doing those things NOW, is what will help you GET things back on track.
That is what DB/DR says, among other things. It's not about giving her a list of things to do. It's more about what YOU can do. those are things that You Can Do, Now. So, you should start doing them!

Other than that, my comments are that there are certain lines in there that are very nebulous, and vague. I think if you cant sum up something in a single, clear sentance.. you should delete the multi-line explaination and rethink it.

The "I will GLADLY do those things when WE get back on track" Is because I feel frustrated because I do those things yet it doesnt make a difference. I feel like IVE given in an effort to make peace but she hasnt met me 1/2 way. Ill give you a scenario,
Ill send an e-mail on a Thursday. "Hey sugar! ___ is playing at the Improv this Saturday night. We havent been to the comedy club in a while. Wanna go?" Then I come home and theres no response. I ask her about it again and she says eh, you go.
Ill sit on the couch and say "Would you like a massage?" - Nah..
We'll get up on Sunday and I'll ask her if she wants to go to Sunday brunch (she said she loves Sunday Brunch) She says no.. im tired.. you go. Then in later conversations she gets mad at me for not taking her anywhere anymore. Its like I just cant win.
She said she was having a hard day the other day so I stopped on the way home and picked up some pink tulips, one of her favorites. I barely got a thank you. Ive bought cards, and written romantic poetry inside.. Im trying to do the 180 and stop being so nice so maybe shell miss the way I used to be. Am I just missing the point again?

IMO - welcome to the world of wanting to make your M work when the other person doesn't seem to care. You are the one here trying to work on this. She's sitting home on the couch. I'm not saying she doesn't want it to work, but you are the one actively doing something, so sometimes you just get to do things you don't necessarily think are fair. Life's not fair. How much are you willing to do to revive your M?

I think it would be interesting to see your W's list of expectations as compared to yours. I was reading through and had a whole list of complaints about your 1st list, but this one seems alot better. I wouldn't give it to her and personall think you can sum the whole thing up with this portion
I do NOT expect you to be my maid, my chef, my laundry service, or my sexual recepticle. I DO expect to have a fair, balanced, loving, emotionally bonding, giving, generous relationship with you and I am willing to work together to achieve it.

I've seen in a lot of places here where you've said that you know you have a lot to work on or that you have no problem focusing on the factors that YOU contributed to this R, but i haven't seen you make a list of those. I haven't seen you say anything about how you are changing you. Maybe I just missed it, i don't know...

Your W definately needs to make some changes, don't get me wrong, but you cannot control her willingness to do so. Work on the things you can control. I think hap said something about this earlier, but pick the things that would be deal breakers. We all want a lot of things, but there are certain things in our R that would be considered unacceptable. If you must give her a list of some sort, pick the most important things, not every little thing you want.

Honestly, if i got any sort of list like that from H (and wasn't the one here trying), i would come right back with "oh really, well.... i want you to _____ FIB and ______ FIB. etc, etc, etc..."

I think you both need to take a look at your drinking. It sounds like you have a problem. I could be off, but JMO. Do you need to drink to enjoy yourself? is it contributing anything good to the R? Don't try and set and example for her (as hairdog said), just try live a good life for you. Again, that's something you can control.

I think the point of NMMNG is to do those things because you love her, you're sorry she had a bad day and want to give her a pick-me-up, etc. The minute you "expect" her to respond in a certain way, you're sinking into the Great Swamp of Resentment. I'm not saying she *shouldn't* be thankful, grateful, etc. Just that you have no control over that. If you're doing the nice stuff to get the gratitude, that's manipulative. Stop.

If you suddenly have the desire to do something extra nice for her (massage, flowers, whatever), do it. OTOH, if you don't feel it authentically, but feel that she expects you to or that you have to so she keeps "liking you" or will have sex with you or whatever .... then don't do it. Ditto if you're only doing it so you won't "feel like a bad person". I don't know if you're religious at all, but to paraphrase I-don't-remember-what-scripture: Give willingly, not grudgingly or under compulsion.

Nwlywd,

Why do you feel the need to give her a 2,000-word manifesto of demands?

Keep it simple -- quit drinking and go to counselling, or I am done. Quantifiable. Reasonable.

If you are truly that resentful, over THAT many things, I don't see why you stay with this woman, I really don't. I would have more respect for myself than that.

Choc.

nwlywed, you are very fused. You need to figure out who you are and accept that. Then figure out who you want to be and strive to become that. After that, it doesn't matter so much what other people think about you or say about you...even a spouse.

Reading your list, what leaps out at me is that you're expecting her to enforce your boundaries. It just doesn't work that way. Other people treat us however they want. All we get to do is define what treatment we'll tolerate and what treatment we won't.

A first step might be to borrow one of blackfoot's lines...when she comes at you verbally in a manner you won't tolerate, just look at her and say, "I don't know who you are when you talk to me like that." Then leave it be. You're not getting angry, you're not trying to make a point, there's no particular reaction you're trying to get from her. You're just making a statement and going on about your life.

nwlywed,

this list does seem better, it is not so harsh and demanding. i do think, though that you could sum it up into something a little shorter.

'i would like for us both to be more respectful to one another and think of the other person and their feelings before we speak or act. it is hurtful the way we treat each other. it is damaging to us, personally and as a couple, when we are unyielding, condescending, petty, and angry with each other. let's both make an effort to be kinder and more compassionate. i promise to work on my side of it. i don't want you to feel used or abused, or that all i want you for is sex. i want to be with you and i love all of you, not just your body. you aren't my maid, my chef, my laundry service, or any of those things that you may feel you have become. i want us to work together on all those things so both of us can have more energy and free time to spend like we used to when we were dating. i loved it when we _______. i would like to do that again (and don't put anything about sex in that blank. put something else like riding bikes or whatever that both of you enjoyed.). i would be so happy if the passion returned in our relationship, but i don't want it to feel like it is one more chore for you to do. so i want you to know that i passionately love you and am committed to you. our drinking has contributed to our problems and made them worse. i would like for us both to commit to stop drinking. we can support each other with this so that we don't feel like we are doing it alone. the bottom line is that i want our relationship to last forever and it is up to both of us to do that. i freely admit that i have missed the mark with you, but if you teach me, i will learn what makes you happiest and i will do those very things. now, what would you like from me?'

this makes it like you are willing to change and do what it takes. maybe that will encourage her enough to change as well, for the sake of your M. the invitation at the end will make her feel like this is not a lecture but this is a chance to work with one another. as you say these things with much respect to her, she should respond in a similar manner. tell her when she is sober. if she starts to get mean, then say 'i said all those things to you in a kind way, i would appreciate your being kind to me as well. this is a very important topic for us and it shouldn't be clouded by defensiveness or anger.' be sure to be sincere and kind. watch your tone. if you have to, let her know that this makes you nervous to speak to her about this but that she is so important to you that you will step out of where you are comfortable to talk with her. approach her on a day that has not been so bad and when she is not so tired. if you are going to email it, call her beforehand to see how her day is. if it is ok, then send it. you can text her and let her know that you sent her an email. so she will get it fast.

maybe a good thing toward the end or afterwards, you could tell her the things that made you fall in love with her. if you never thought you would meet anyone, if you didn't expect it but she was (and is) so great that you were surprised, the way she looks, whatever. let her know specifics on why. but don't mention sex. she already knows you want that. so don't beat that dead horse right now.

just a woman's perspective. i really believe most women would respond positively to this message because there is no blame attached to one person. you are admitting that you have contributed too and that you are willing to make your R better.

All great advice! Ive been thinking a lot about my relationship patterns lately. Ive actually been down this road before. Its what led me to NMMNG. When I meet an attractive woman that I would consider out of my league I overdo the nice things because thats what I think she wants and thats what I think will make her love me and keep her in love with me. Its all great in the beginning but then it goes into a pattern like this. Its all based on my childhood conditioning and my own self esteem issues that I have had all my life. The NMMNG book really hit home. The give to get, the covert contracts, the issues ive had with women in the past, etc.
To answer Anns questions.
My list of things ive done or should do
1. Stop the expectations
2. Let her know when shes hurt me instead of bottling it up and becoming resentful and using it for ammunition in a fight.
3. Not take her moods, anger, ugliness personally.
4. LISTEN and not think about what im going to say next or how she'd being a hypocrite.
5. Let go of all the grudges/things shes done that have hurt me.
6. When shes being ugly and snide to me not to get ugly back. It only makes it worse. The response "I dont know who you are when you talk to me like that" seems like a good thing to try.
7. To be more receptive of her wants/needs, even if she cant express them clearly.
8. Workout more and get back in shape.
9. Become passionate about something again instead of indifferent and easy-going about everything.
10. Set long term goals together.

As for the drinking, I wouldnt say I need to drink to enjoy myself. I would say that it is NOT contributing anything good to the R, though. AT this point I think anything that doesnt contribute anything good to the R shouldnt be done. It has become a problem in our R, or I should say it has caused problems in our R. Right now I want to do things that make us better and stop the things that dont.

I liked your list of 10 things you should do. But this:shows that you don't get this:The "I barely got a thank you" seethes with resentment. Your buying of tulips was a covert contract. You need to recognize these things on the fly. Believe me, I know it's hard to do.

Focus on your list of 10 things about you.

Hairdog