Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums THE SEX-STARVED MARRIAGE The Great Wall Part II

(Corri) When you need something from someone who is unwilling to GIVE it, you are pretty much out of luck, because no matter what you do/say, you are going to come off as needy and clingy.

Ah. It's just a me thing. I could understand a woman's reasons/excuses for not wanting to have sex with me. But if she said she has no physical desire for me because she's too tired or the neighbors are too loud or the walls are too thin...that wouldn't fly.


When you LOSE the anger, and the person honestly knows that you aren't BLAMING them, you ACCEPT them... but you are OUTTA THERE... most times... it's the 2x4 shift to slam the wax out of the LD's ears... because it ISN'T a power play... and you can FEEL it. Immediately.

I agree wholeheartedly but Karen doesn't have that 2x4 in her arsenal.

This is true but by the time the HD spouse is OUTTA THERE they are almost certainly having sex with somebody else at least in their mind. It still boggles my mind that my 2bx didn't realize that the fact that we were separated and the fact that I was sex-starved would add up to the fact of me dating other men. The only difference between my sich and that of the HDfolk who cheated was that I was honest about my intentions yet still my 2bx was clueless until slammed up against the reality of an honest-to-goodness other man. The honesty of the OUTTA HERE statement means that at that point the HD spouse is back on the open sexual market and the LD spouse better hope that he/she still looks pretty good in that context because sentimental attachments are gone.

It isn't always about sex, Burg. Often times, it seems that.

For example, I turned the tables on my x. I WAS willing to give him what he wanted. He just couldn't give me what I wanted. And that's cool. But again... as my sex life showed... it was never about sex. As my shrink told me, again, and again, and again...

ETA: The mechanics of sex always worked. O's all around. I guess the reason why LFL said 'EWH' when I suggested the male escort is because... it ISN'T just about the O, at least for a woman. But an LD man can at least grasp the concept, because he IS a man... and men CAN do that. And it is OKAY for a man to do that with his wife, if that what she wants... because it is done with love. He just needs to really know it... which maybe is what LFL is getting now... kinda like GEL's H... You know? "No, fck ME, LFL, the lusty WOMAN... not the mother of your children... damm it. I WANT that, k? Do you HEAR? GET IT?"

So that was my point, in that case, anyway.

See... I personally think that Mr. Karen wants his version of 'queen' to go along with his version of 'king.' And Karen is just having NONE of it. But... she isn't willing to challenge the King... where the KING'S lightbulb goes off... well... she is willing to challenge it... but she isn't willing to rip apart the Kingdom over it... and THAT is the problem. Kings have Kingdoms... and the Queen wields her own power... yet to USE that power... takes a bit of finesse... as, I THINK... HP discovered... my guess...

karen, what I was thinking when I suggesting letting 'er rip in a fantasy post/speech to your H, I didn't intend that you should use that as a rehearsal for what you would/might actually say.

My thinking was that once YOU really got in touch with your deepest feelings about his attitude toward you and sex, that the next step would spontaneously and authentically occur to you. As long as you imagine saying those words to your H, I think you will censor yourself. And as long as you censor yourself, you'll never get right down to the very bottom of why this hurts, how much it hurts, how furious you are, etc.

My hypothesis is that once you see into the volcano, you will know exactly what to say to him (if anything) BUT the difference will be that your words or actions will feel authentic to him and to you.

Your first hypothetical email was so tired-sounding... like a boss who is forced to give a performance review to an employee who vaguely annoys and disgusts him. What I'm looking for is not your RESIGNATION to this situation but your PASSION. Clearly right now, sexual passion is not to be had, but rage is a kind of passion... so I was fishing for that. Just so you could feel it. NOT act on it YET. First get used to feeling the passion and then authentic action will flow from that.

Anyway, that's my theory.

Corri,

"Karen is just having NONE of it" - so true it is laughable (in a pathetic way).

So - as I am coming home from work H calls me screaming about an offense by DD10 committed and saying that I better talk to her before he does. In essence - she invited her "boyfriend" (show pony so her her friends can see that she is a grown up) to our house when no adult was home and DS16 was asleep in another part of the house. He walked in and discovered this. In his head he had her pregnant, with herpes and a bad reputation in the next 10 minutes. Honestly, this was a serious transgression and I was prepared to show her how serious but she is just skating the edges of the rules that we had laid down to see if we were serious. She only wants to a boyfriend to show all her friends. Well he was wildly PISSED and out of control. Finally he calmed down. I talked to her alone and we talked to her together and I think he got that she was just experimenting with independence not so much sex (although I know that sex in a non-specific way had a lot to do with it, she is starting puberty). Then he was generally sh*tty to me while we were fixing dinner before the game. Finally, I took him aside and asked exactly why was he being so crappy to me, had I done something specific? The answer was the usual - No, too tired, too stressed, whatever...;...

Then OSU (H's team) lost................ So, I decided to go to bed and leave H to chat with his friend who was here (his friend's fiance died of cancer a few weeks ago so I figured they could use some guy time). I told H I was going to bed and he said, " but we were just gonna watch some Star Trek or something." I said, "Have fun, I'll see you when you come up unless I run off with some LSU alumnae." He said something like he wouldn't blame me if I did.

So.....I have been having NONE of any of it but I have decided that I have to wade in more before anything get done and it is time that things lighten up around here and I don't think the sex part will get anywhere with the dark, heavy veil of H's holiday depression, too much work, no joking around and very little non-sexual touch. H usually lightens up somewhere around February. I can't wait for that because now it has become to laden with meaning for me - 1 year is unacceptable.

Lil,

I knew what you were trying to prompt. I guess the thing is that when I write it out there is a part of me that wants to say exactly that. I could even say it in a really short form,

"H you are wasting my time. I am hot, ready and willing to make our M great. You shelve me and pretty soon the "hot and ready" will be "unwilling and unavailable". The fact that you will do that makes me think you are a p*ss poor excuse for a man. "

My very lack of passion scares the crap out of me. I am more afraid of that than my anger. My anger that looks to this forum like a hissy is so difficult for me that having a hissy probably represents better mental health than my usual stoic approach (Me? No, I'm not angry just disappointed. I'll get over it. It will be ok. I can handle anything.). So, I don't know where I am going from here because what this whole thread has pointed out to me is that blasting away from the position I am in would be unfair and not even remotely useful. I have to put away my desire to throw away the kingdom in favor of becoming a mommified version of Bhudda or Mother Teresa and instead take back the keys to the kingdom.

Karen

I'd be real careful where you go with this line of thinking. My H used to be very similar in thought. And we know what happened in my M. H finally blew a gasket and left. You are ripe for that if you don't address these issues head on. And trust me when I tell you I was 100% convinced H had every intention of staying in the M, just like you do.
It sounds to me like you are talking yourself out of really showing your H your passion and your anger. Big Mistake.
Just my two cents.

LFL

I do so totally dig this, karen.



Hairdog asked me if I'm hoping my bf will show interest if I date someone else. I don't want him to show interest. I don't care if he shows interest anymore. The lack of feeling is alarming... considering a couple of months ago I still wanted a R with him.

LFL,

I agree that the issues must be addressed and even angrily but what I am saying is that going from zero interaction to "get in line or else" doesn't wash. I have to find my way out of my lack of passion and what that may mean is finding the passion in me for my M and not so much counting on having passion for H. My passion for H has hit really hard times and I guess that is also part of what caused the "if he won't I won't" stand off and what has also made it difficult for me to take charge of my own desires. So, I think maybe my "joke" of the other night about finding an LSU alumnae (AS IF) to hook up with represents part of where I need to go from here. I need to lighten things up, create motion in this R, insert some warmth and then........if H doesn't play along it really is on him and not me and I can address it - straight up, in vivo instead of in a two page summary of the past 8 months.

Karen

sigh..... As much as you know your husband better than anyone else in most areas... I think you still just dont understand him in this area, Karen.
this wont work. he has plenty of "warmth". he's had it for the past ..... years. If you dont change anything else, then how is it logical to expect he will change, if you do exactly the same thing you've tried before?

If you dont want to go the anger route first, then how about trying the biblical route first?
It's probably what's going to work best for you anyway, if you stick at it for a little bit, and dont just let it go at the excuse he's going to come up with in the first 30 seconds.



That's not what the DB books mean, when they talk about "act as if". The books are talking about "act as if [your spouse is going to do something positive for you]", not "invent anything imaginary that you feel like, and act as if it will be true".