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Hi Sandi,

It's great to hear from you again, I hope you enjoyed that well earned break you took.
A lot has happened in my sitch since you last posted here, some real highs and bad lows. I am sure you'll catch up on them in good time.


My thought was that she was still involved with OM, this thought even caused me to snoop and get caught. I can see your point that she could be in a state of grieving, I have read in a few books that this can happen.



This used to be our thing in better days, W would ask me to hug her in bed to "put her to sleep" or I would ask if I could put her to sleep. This usually involve hugging and some touching but not full sex. I think I tried this as a test and response. She wasn't willing so I won't do it again, unless she asks me to.



It could be that W is comfort spending to fill void of OM, but all the recent spending we have done is within both our means. I think W is happier because I've spent money on myself for myself and I am dressing like the man she wants me to be. If anything it has boosted my self confidence because if W isn't fully noticing me, ladies on the outside certainly are.

One question I have for you is, do I still hold off on R talks. I ask because W isn't too good in civil talks, she tends to listen and her reply to any difficult question is "Don't know" or "it's up to you" If we had a full blown argument she's in her element and win hands down.

Sometimes I just get this feeling that she wants me to take the lead in things ie I've broke this M, Lan you've got to fix it. Again for me its about do I wait in limbo or do I push things a little because my feeling is W will wait until we are good friends again, and then try to carry on as if nothing has happened. Thats how things always used to be.

Anyway thanks for your comments and don't leave it too long until you post again.

Lan, For you it must feel like walking on thin ice. I'm wondering out loud that after all the good work she's seen you steadily do over several months would she at some point express some remorse? That maybe a cue to talk about the R. But then again I've heard that some spouses do not ever express remorse - to them its entirely the other person's fault for making them do what they did - my W would probably fall in this category. Alternatively she may want to be intimate again and that may be a cue as well to talk about the R.

This sums up my W.

She's already told me (albeit in anger) that whats done is done and she has no regrets about doing it.

There are no outward signs of remorse that I can pick up on.

Home for lunch, so will try to talk a bit now. IMHO, instead of looking at the R as being in limbo, just try taking it a day at a time. I know from my own experience that I did not really want to talk about our MR b/c I did feel like I was responsible for "breaking" it (although I felt my H was to blame for some things....but that is my stitch). If she doesn't seem to want to talk about it, then I would suggest you don't push it. My take on it would be the very best friend you can be to her day by day. Really work on that, Lan. I know that men don't want to be "just friends" with their W's, but think of it as your tactic to winning back her heart. It is hard for most females to jump out of one affair or R or love (call it what you will)straight into another. A lot of men and/or women that do go straight to another, but there usually is trouble b/c they didn't give enough time to get over the last one. There has to be an emotional divorce or detachment of some kind from the last involvement b/f you jump back into another....even if it is the man you are M to. Until she has finally emotionally detached herself from the OM, I don't think she is going to be ready for much more than a friendship type of R with you. I think she is trying to be "willing" and right now, Lan, that is about as much as she can give, even though it doesn't appear so to you. My H was hurt when we tried to talk about our MR after OM and he said I didn't talk like I wanted to try hard enough, but I was just trying my best to be "willing" to be willing to just try! That is a hard and big step to take that LBS need to realize about WAS.

I hope and pray she is not still contacting the OM! Only time will tell for sure about that. I know how she felt about your snooping b/c when my H snooped on me, I felt so violated. I know that sounds stupid since I was involved in an EA, but still that is how I felt. I was so furious that I almost hated him for that. So, you must not do that anymore and take a chance of getting caught or you may lose her for good.

You see Lan, I think if my H had left things alone, that the online stuff would have played out in a short time. But when he confronted me about it and everything hit the fan, it just pushed me closer to the OM. That is when it really turned into an EA b/c it immediately shifted into high gear when I thought things were over between my H and me. I gather from what you said that is when your W decided to go on and have a PA with her OM.

Anyway, my advice to you is to keep everything between you and your W "light" and friendly and not get into anything serious. I know how hard this is for you b/c if things had been turned the other way around in my stitch, I don't know if I could have left it alone. I would probably wanted to do nothing else but talk about our MR. Thank goodness my H isn't that way. Maybe your W is looking for you to "fix" the problem, but more than likely she is just needing a lot more time. Much more than you may feel that you are able to give her sometimes, but you have to look at the final outcome.......keep focused on the goal. You will win her heart back but it will take time with no pressure on her at all. If my H had placed any pressure whatsoever on me.....I would have been out of here in a flash. He still isn't putting pressure on me, for which I am thankful. There has been one friend here on the board that has tried to put some pressure on me to take certain steps of action and that is when I can tell that I'm not ready.......not really ready in my heart. So, it is unbelievable how much time it takes to get over some things. If I had had a PA.....there is no telling how long it would have taken me to get my heart back where it belonged.

My H hasn't tried as hard as you are trying (in some areas), but he has been understanding and patient. I don't know that he completely trusts me yet, but I think he is trying for his own peace of mind. I always keep the door wide open when I'm on the computer so he won't think I am up to no good. I don't want to hurt him again or give him cause to worry. He has not tried to push me into any touchy-touchy stuff except when I give him a good-bye peck or a hug sometimes. Nothing heavy. Just keeping it light. He acts like a good friend and that is what I need him to do now. Hopefully in time we will have a good marriage again. You have to realize that we were not sleeping together for years before I got involved with OM over the internet, so it's not just that that we have to deal with, but OM sure did a lot of hurt to the R. I never gave my H any reason whatsoever to mistrust me before OM. That was the one thing he and I had that was never doubted......trust in each other.

Anyway, just keep trying to keep things "fun" and friendly and try to stop noticing every little move she makes and placing so much emphasis on it. You are going to go nuts doing that. I have noticed that seems to be what the LBS do and they set themselves up for disappointment a lot of times b/c they do this. So, try to relax some and just allow things to fall into place without you pushing them or trying to "fix" everything. Only "time" can fix some things. Time and a lot of love and patience.

Take care.

Hi Sandi,

I don't know if you've got to grips with all of my sitch but since 12/12 when I told W that the M was over she has calmed down towards me and been quite civil, this also coincided with her saying it was over with OM. So we've been doing fun things together since Christmas and this started when I set the tone by setting up our xmas breakfast of Croissant & Bucks fizz. I think W was expecting me to be misery guts but I pulled out all the stop to make things enjoyable. The only set back was when I snooped xmas night for which I've apologised and we've seemed to overcome that indiscression.

Tonight we took the xmas decorations down together, and while we were chatting W was planning what we would be doing on Sunday after shopping. Normally it's me who's suggesting what to do but W seems keen for us to do things as a family together and this is more so since she said things are over with OM.

My instincts will tell me if she is in contact with OM, at the moment they say no contact, but I feel that they are not done. Anyway that's just me.

Its hard for me to see W just as a friend because I love her to bits and I want her. Actually since I've been getting out and GAL I know women want me so this makes it sooo frustrating for me.

Anyway Sandi I trust your insights so I'm gonna be the best friend I can for W, I know this works because the anger has really died down, and we're even laughing together. Remember back when all I could post was how petty and angry W was with me. So if I think back to that I know I've made massive strides.

Thanks for giving me new focus, I know wouldn't be here now without your help in the early days.

Tonight W went out for a Pizza, a drink and a bit of girlie chat with her bf, I think this is when she vents or does her R talking. Don't think OM involved, no overnight bag, plus W had already given me the low down on where she was going and what they would be doing. (she doesn't normally do this). She even showed off the new outfit that she would be wearing, it's only a pizza restaurant but she's dressed in designer gear. Before she left, no hugs or kisses for me but I just told her to have a good time.

When W gets back I'm already in bed but her movement around the house wakes me up.
When she finally gets into bed, she lays still for a while, then through the darkness I can see her looking over at me. I said "yes you did wake me". W apologises. As I turn in the bed to settle down again, W stretches out her arm and strokes my chest. Wow !!! I'm surprised by this. I held her hand at my chest for a while, enjoying the moment but thinking what to do next. I move over to hold W close but she pulls away. Obviously the time is not right yet. So we both relax and got to sleep.

I don't want to over analyse the event but this is a significant step for me, for us. W has not come close to me in the bedroom since 07/07 and that's a long time. So rather than jump the gun, I'll have to accept the moment for what it was and continue to move forward slowly. I hope it's all going in the right direction.

WAW has drawn me into her confusing world and caused me to slip up. (Sorry Sandi).

The last few days she has been discussing things around the house that go well into the future, our future, and she's been doing this with real enthusiasm. Both of us have been getting really excited about this.

Here's an example of our confusion. I told W we need better xmas decorations for next year. She said stop talking about xmas next year. I said why, is that because we wont be together. She said no, the next xmas is 2008, this year.

OK the previous night W made tentative advances towards me in bed but pulled back when I started to respond. This morning I made advances towards W and she was not happy about it. I've apologised and she's acknowledged this but I can still see her annoyance.

I needed to post today to stop me sending these needy, apologetic and pursuing text messages.

Text: Sorry if I upset you this morning, hope it won't stop us carrying on as friends.

Text: Just to let you know we need to about us, I'm ready to talk, but no rush, and I won't push you, but I just don't want things to drift.

Text: Take care outside, the weather is really bad.

OK no messages sent.

As I said before things have been going very well between us so I guess I was trying to take some large steps when baby steps were needed. I think I got carried away so I need to take a step backards from W and assess where things are going.

Lanzo,
Things seem to be going pretty well for you. Sure, we all want things to go faster than they can. It is very difficult to contain our enthusiasm when our spouses show some signs of improvement towards us. Don't beat yourself up too bad for slipping a little. In my experience it is more than normal. After all, let's face it, if we are on this site it is because we still cling on to some hope. A good chunk of our day is spent thinking about our WAWs. So we slip up once in a while...no major harm done.

Today W has been on the phone bugging me as to when we'll be ordering the new TV (we've agreed to split the cost 50:50). It's ordered now and she's happy. Now she says we should turn our attention to the living room area and she started to outline her plans on what she wants to do there.

I just had to ask her a question at this point. I asked her are you ok making these long term plans about the house.... with me ? Her reply was I don't see myself moving from this house and I can't kick you out, so it looks like we're in it together for the long haul. If we're here together we may as well fix up the house as we originally planned (The plan we had before D6). But we both have to be committed to the plan. I said I was ok with that. So I asked what about "us" then, she said "Oh that, we're gonna have to take it reeeel sloooow". So I said, "I guess I was moving to fast this morning". She said "Way too fast". So I said ""e fix up the house, feel good about everything," "then the rest fall into place", she replied "correct".

All sounds good, I just wished she could have just spelt this out to me sooner (poor communication is our problem).

At least you have a road map to follow now. It doesn't sound like any harm was done either. I think that I would let her take the reigns in the R department and wait for her to show you signs.